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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of songs in Guitar Hero Live/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by SchroCat via FACBot (talk) 00:33, 14 May 2016 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of songs in Guitar Hero Live edit

List of songs in Guitar Hero Live (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): MASEM (t) 01:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list as to match ongoing work to get the Guitar Hero Good Topic back in line with this new release (which I thought we had not have to worry about again after 2013... :) The format follows previous GH song lists, but addresses the complication of the GHTV not-DLC model this game uses. The game and GHTV aspects have been out long enough to know how to approach the lists correctly. MASEM (t) 01:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Review by PresN

Recusing myself as a delegate to review this list.

  • Not totally convinced that we need these lists, but 11 FLs later the point is a bit moot
  • "the first game in the series to support the 8th generation video game consoles, the PlayStation 4, Wii U, and XBox One" - should be a colon, not a comma
  • "The game was released worldwide on 20 October 2015." - you use month-day-year in the tables
  • "Guitar Hero Live will not use traditional downloadable content to expand the game" - "does" not use
  • "playing songs currently presented on the channel in curated fashion" - in "a" curated fashion
  • "overlaid atop live-action footage" - redundant; "shown atop" or "overlaid on"
  • "watching the reaction to the crowd and their bandmates" - "the reaction of"
  • "...used in previous Guitar Hero games, Guitar Hero Live adds songs to the game via Guitar Hero TV" - game name needs italicization, and earlier you only italicized the Guitar Hero and not TV; be consistent
  • "The week after their introduction, these songs are then added to the on-demand playlist, and then after another week, enter into the GHTV's rotation of songs." -> "The week after their introduction, these songs are added to the on-demand playlist, and after another week enter into the GHTV's rotation of songs."
  • "The on-disc soundtrack for Guitar Hero Live considered weak." - fragment
  • "Griffin McElroy of Polygon found most of the songs were from 2000 or later" - found? That implies a bit more investigation than was really required; maybe "noted"
  • "The GHTV mode has mixed opinions" - Don't think the mode is the one with the opinions
  • "The GHTV mode has mixed opinions, with most reviewers praising the concept, with the presentation of the channels were highlighted as hearkening to the heyday of MTV, and giving the player the ability to explore new music, but critical of the use of microtransactions and premium shows, disallowing players to play specific tracks at any time they wanted without cost." - two phrases in a row starting with "with", and 6 clauses in total, not all grammatically aligned. Maybe "The GHTV mode has resulted in mixed opinions, with most reviewers praising the concept. The presentation of the channels was highlighted as hearkening to the heyday of MTV, and they were praised for giving the player the ability to explore new music. Some reviewers, however, were critical of the use of microtransactions and premium shows for disallowing players to play specific tracks at any time they wanted without cost."
  • Redirects that don't seem intentional: 8th Generation, XBox One, and First-person perspective in the lead; Bangarang, Kellin Quinn in the first table; Chop Suey!, Higher Ground, and I Have a Problem in the second table; Stache, Atreyu, Alice In Chains, Undone - The Sweater Song, The Cowboy's Christmas Ball, Dragonforce, and The Day I Tried To Live in the third table; Games Radar in reception; Gamespot in references.
  • Rowscopes are missing on tables, and colscopes fro tables 2 and 3
  • Table 3: Nasty" is missing the opening quote, The Bots is sorting under The, N/A is sorting under 'N', The Champions is sorting under The
  • Shouldn't this be in the "Guitar Hero soundtracks" cat like the other song lists, not the parent "Guitar Hero" one?
  • Did not review references, as that's now a separate review type
  • That's it! If this review was helpful, consider optionally reviewing my World Fantasy Convention Award FLC down below. --PresN 20:52, 26 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Masem: reminding you of this. --PresN 15:22, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@PresN: Many of the above were taken care of by @Harryhenry1: in this diff but I've gone through clean up the rest (dates are all now dmy, fixing the table sorting, etc.) The only question I have is about the rowscope, if this is needed here. As each row its its own entry, and the rows don't have header cells to them, it's not like the example given in the MOS, so I don't think it's needed here. (Colscopes have been added though). --MASEM (t) 20:58, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, now that I look at the tables again, the reason it doesn't seem like the rows have headers is because the "header" cell is actually the second one- the song title. The year shouldn't be first; the original year the recording is from certainly isn't the most important item about the track release. It should really be after the artist column.
That said, I don't know what MOS example you're looking at, but my understanding is that rowscopes are needed even on basic tables- @RexxS: as an ACCESS member, what is your opinion? Are rowscopes appropriate on the tables in this list? --PresN 21:33, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I did relook and I think I misread something, so I would agree that rowscope is probably needed and that means that the song name should be first (the most unique ID on the list). I just want to make sure before flipping the column orders around. --MASEM (t) 21:50, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)
I think that adding rowscopes and marking cells as headers for the song titles would improve this list. That would allow a screen reader to navigate down the column "Band", for example, and hear: "45, Band, Broken Tide"; "The Anthem, Band, Yearbook Ghosts"; etc. At present, they are likely to hear: "2012, Band, Broken Tide"; "2002, Band, Yearbook Ghosts", etc. which seems less informative to me as 2012 is by no means unique to identify the song described on that row. If you changed:
  • | 2012 || "[[45 (The Gaslight Anthem song)|45]]" || {{sort|Gaslight Anthem|[[The Gaslight Anthem]]}} || Alternative || Sounddial: Castle Stage || Broken Tide
to:
  • | 2012
  • ! scope="row" | "[[45 (The Gaslight Anthem song)|45]]"
  • | {{sort|Gaslight Anthem|[[The Gaslight Anthem]]}} || Alternative || Sounddial: Castle Stage || Broken Tide
(which would be needed to mark up the row headers, while leaving the rows in the same order - I'd prefer song title first, of course), that would result in the song titles becoming boldface and the background darkening slightly as we do for headers by default.
I can't comment on whether that change in display would concern the principal editors, but I do think the improved accessibility is worthwhile. Hope that helps. --RexxS (talk) 21:59, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead, moved the Year columns to after Song and Artist, and then subsequently added rowscopes for the song name. --MASEM (t) 23:10, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's certainly an improvement and would work for screen readers, so that's much better. The only quibble is that Wikipedia is supposed to produce HTML5. Unfortunately in HTML5, the data cell (td) (| in wiki-markup) doesn't possess the rowscope attribute, so we no longer have valid HTML5. As I indicated earlier, the correct markup would use an exclamation mark: ! scope="row" | ... which produces a header cell (th), but I guess you don't like the bold effect it produces. Anyway, it will be years before the invalid HTML catches up with us, so I won't quarrel over it. --RexxS (talk) 23:49, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I could use the "!" markup and then add style to "revert" the box to bg-less and boldless - would that be a problem MOS wise? --MASEM (t) 23:51, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No problem at all with the MOS or for accessibility - just the sheer effort of making the changes. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 01:05, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I will be regexing this sometime today, tomorrow or the day after, once I figure out the right CSS to do so. I've got a script that enables regexing in the normal WP editor that I used today to do the rowscopes. --MASEM (t) 01:12, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The standard background-color for wikitable.table is #F9F9F9, so you'll probably want something like ! scope="row" style="background-color:#F9F9F9; font-weight:normal;" | ... - HTH --RexxS (talk) 20:03, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, that should be it. --MASEM (t) 04:44, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Now Support. --PresN 14:32, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Consistent with the rest of the series. (must confess that I helped fix some of the requests above, and even added an image to fit the 5b criteria). igordebraga ≠ 04:51, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I can take a look at this list, if you wouldn't mind reviewing my FLC.

Lead

  • Link backwards compatible
  • The lead is completely unsorced, but it appears as though all the unsorced statements are sourced later in the list
  • I haven't looked at any of the other Guitar Hero song lists, but it feels as though the lead doesn't go too in depth about the songs themselves, and instead is about the features of the game. Were the developers looking for specific types of songs going into this game? And since this list includes a reception section, shouldn't that also be in the lead? If those aren't standards for these types of lists, then ignore this comment

Actual songs

  • No real comments here, moving on

Reception

  • Again, no real comments, though were those really the only reviews that discussed what they thought of the songlist? That's one of the biggest parts of a music game, so I feel this section could be increased. However, if those were the only reviews that talked about the songlist, then so be it.

References

  • Ref 6 is missing the date
  • Ref 8 is missing the author and date

Overall, a solid list. Once my issues are addressed, I'll support. Famous Hobo (talk) 21:53, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I will try to get to these in the next day or so. A couple points: I think I can find a handful of sources about on-disc song selection, if I remember correctly, so can address that. On the reception for GHTV, I didn't see much about the actual song selection (they were dissatisfied on the model itself), but I can relook for those. Part of the issue is that since you can't really pick and chose songs like the main game, it's hard to judge those. --MASEM (t) 01:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Famous Hobo: I have fixed the points above, and added some language and references that describe the developers' ideas on selecting songs for both parts of the game, and adding some comments from reviewers on song selection in the GHTV part of the game. --MASEM (t) 18:27, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gah, I thought I watchlisted this page. Guess I didn't, my apologies. Anyway, I like the additions, it was nice to finally learn why they decided to include a Katy Perry song in this game. Alright, I'll give my long overdue Support. I can also do a source review if you need it. Famous Hobo (talk) 14:51, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Famous Hobo: --PresN 21:25, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Review from MPJ-US

Trying to drum up some reviews for my own Featured List Candidate (NWA World Historic Welterweight Championship) and I figured the best way to get it to give.

General comments
  • Okay so the article needs to decide if the first part of the article is a lead in the WP:LEAD sense or not - it has no references at all which would be okay for a lead section, but it also has several facts that are not listed elsewhere, which not okay.
  • "went into a hiatus" should be "went on hiatus"
  • "songs on disc" should be "songs on the disc", that's a mistake that's repeated several times
  • "expand the game, and is not" does not need the comma
  • I would assume that "Guitar Hero TV" is an online, web based option? the article does not actually state that, making it sound like you turn to channel 4775 on your cable box?
  • "In game, the songs" does not need a comma and sounds like it's missing something? just sounds incomplete
  • "from first-person perspective" should be "from the first-person perspective"
  • "In game, the songs are arranged into sets of 3 to 5 songs to be played as part of a concert performance. During these songs, the game shows an on-screen fretboard which represents the notes the player should play, shown atop live-action footage taken from first-person perspective of the lead guitar player of one of several fictional bands, performing on stage and watching the reaction of the crowd and their bandmates." that is one massive sentence, one. and it reads like a run-on sentence. Can you possibly revise that?
  • "The player then unlocks the ability to play the individual songs outside of sets.[2]" already stated in the previous sentence isn't it??
  • "determining of those songs which they could license" should be "determining which of those songs they could license"
  • "note highways" - term has not been defined? what exactly is that?
  • "marking-up" does that need the hypen?
  • "According to designer Jim Norris, their selection process included identifying songs that would be expected by players to be on a Guitar Hero title, determining of those songs which they could license, marking-up the song for the note highways and determining how much fun those songs would be to play, and then balancing the song selection in the game to give players a combination of songs they know and those they may not recognize but would be fun to play." - another long, run-on sentence that does not read well.
  • "a video from a live concert footage of the band playing" simplify "footage from the band playing a live concert"
  • "Activision announced that at least 70 new songs will be added to GHTV before the end of 2015." since 2015 is now in the past perhaps state how many were actually added?
  • "these are based on songs and footage taken live from the respective band's current tour" - "were based on live performances for the respective band's ongoing tours"
  • If this is a "list of songs" why is there a reception section? that's a game review section, it even has a "see also" setion but really is not relevant to a "list of songs" IMO
Table specifics
  • First two table sort okay, look okay.
  • "Added Songs" table - looks like the primary sort is the "release date", what is the secondary short? so how are the songs released on 20 October 2015 sorted?
Source review
  • If I am generous and consider the reference right before the table I get a specific reference for song/artist but the rest of the table is not sourced at all?
  • Most reflist templates uses the 30em split, is that not normal for these types of articles?
  • Is "Kotaku.com" a reliable source?
  • When I click on Reference 1 I get an error?
  • Reference 3 does not seem to mention what it is supposed to reference??
  • References 6-7-8-9 are all lumped together, spread them out to match up to what they source
  • Same cluster has [8] listed twice.
  • Reference 10 is dead
  • Reference 11 does not state anything about the 1980s and 1990s??
  • Reference cluster 12-13-14 does not actually cover everything in the preceding statements? like the fretboard and player card decorations?
  • More notes that I initially thought I would find, but digging into some of the sources revealed issues so did some of the prose.  MPJ-US  23:41, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will get to these in next few days, thanks for the feedback. a couple notes:
      • We have traditionally included a reception on the song selections in these games to show that there is notable interest in what songs the games present (which can make or break some of these games) - it's not just a random game soundtrack which rarely gains a standalone article.
      • The references should also give release dates and the Premium show names. The only data not from the sources is going to be the genre, and that it something one has to look in-game to acquire (eg going to the song in the game, and checking how they catalog it).
      • Kotaku is a reliable source as determined by the video games project.
      • I'll double check on some of those references - many are pulled from the relevant sections in the main game article but here may not be doing what I thought, but I will recheck those. --MASEM (t) 00:10, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • @MPJ-DK: I believe I have addressed all issues but one: using a 30em reflist causes the GHTV setlist to stick in one column which creates massive whitespace. I am thinking of actually breaking that apart and using individual references which would avoid that issue, so just need a nod if this makes sense. A few additional notes: As of working on this right now, all links are active save those from Gamespot, and that looks to be temporary thing (their entire site is down, I was browsing it earlier today). I've also addressed to change or replace references to make sure these are sourcing what they are being attached too. --MASEM (t) 22:41, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • @Masem: - Had to see for myself and I agree that looks weird, better to leave it the way it is. I get the same Gamespot error so fingers crossed it's temporary.  MPJ-US  22:47, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • With the updates I can go with Support  MPJ-US  22:47, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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