Wikipedia

Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Guy Sebastian discography/archive1

< Wikipedia:Featured list candidates
The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by SchroCat 08:28, 22 December 2014 [1].

Guy Sebastian discography edit

Guy Sebastian discography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): Usfun8991 07:29, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it fulfills the featured list criteria and is sufficiently comprehensive. Any comments or suggestions that may assist in improving this list would be much appreciated. Thank you. — Usfun8991 07:29, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Support A comprehensive and well sourced list. Nicely done! Simon (talk) 13:22, 13 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support Plenty of information and all is sourced. I think it meets the criteria for a featured list! I do have a question though. In studio albums, what is up with all the numbers next to the record label? BMG (#82876587792). -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 06:12, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Joseph Prasad: Thanks for your support! The numbers are the catalogue numbers for the albums. I'm not quite sure why they're there. Do you think they are appropriate for a discography article or should I move them into their individual articles? — Usfun8991 (talk) 12:05, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Usfun8991: I haven't actually seen them on many articles, like Drake Bell discography, I don't see the catalog numbers for the albums. Also, take an already featured list, Taylor Swift discography. No Catalog numbers there, or on the albums. I don't think they belong at all. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 23:47, 15 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Joseph Prasad: All done! — Usfun8991 (talk) 08:11, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Usfun8991: Ok, full on support now. -- Joseph Prasad (talk) 08:14, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Prosperosity (talk) 23:17, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment
Did all the albums have preceding releases in Australia? You should mark (AUS), (US), etc next to the release dates to denote which region they stand for. Also some of the release dates seem unsourced, which I don't usually care about if that release has its own page, however the Just as I Am (Guy Sebastian album) page doesn't have a source for 7/12/03. Could you double-check all of the dates are sourced on their subsequent pages, or if they don't have a page in the discography article?
(US only release)[41] shouldn't be in the title, it should be in the 'Album details' section. Also moving the source next to the date (29 May 2009[41]) makes it a little tidier
ARIA Charts, NZ music charts and Certifications are all overlinked. After their first appearance in the studio albums section they don't need to be linked.
TBA album next to "Bed of Clouds" is technically WP:CRYSTAL, so this should be replaced with "non-album single" or a source stating that it's going to appear on a future album.
The "ARIA End of Decade Charts" section is very atypical for a discography. I'm not sure if it's appropriate for discography space, especially considering he's an international artist. Do you think this would be better moved to each album/single's article instead?
In 'Other appearances', some of the parenthesis (featuring ___) notes are on the same line and some have been dropped down. Could you fix this so that they're all the same? I think the style is for everything to be dropped to the next line.
A lot of those music videos are unsourced. Could you find sources that attest to their existence? Plus unless one of the videos without a listed director had multiple directors, "Director" instead of "Director(s)" is all that's necessary. --Prosperosity (talk) 09:45, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosperosity: Thanks for your input! I've fixed up all the album release dates and album details. I'm just wondering where the reference should go in the Extended plays section in the Guy Sebastian EP entry. Should it be 29 May 2009 (US)[39] or 29 May 2009[39] (US)?
I've removed all the extra links for ARIA, RMNZ and Certifications. I've left the AUS and NZ chart links because 1. It doesn't look that good when some charts are blue and some are black in the same row in the As a lead artist section and 2. Other featured discographies have them linked anyway.
Everything else you've suggested has been fixed up. — Usfun8991 (talk) 11:10, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome! I'd personally go with 29 May 2009 (US)[39] myself. ---Prosperosity (talk) 23:15, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support All issued I'd raised have been dealt with. Good job! --Prosperosity (talk) 23:17, 14 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 13:08, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • No sign of the "live album" in the infobox.
  • Link "certification" suitably.
  • "17 top 20 singles in Australia, with 12 reaching the top ten, including six number ones" awkward mixture of numbers and words here.
  • ", and is third overall for all Australian acts. Only Kylie Minogue and Delta Goodrem have achieved more" consider merging this in a sentence of its own.
  • "the highest for an Australian Idol contestant" I don't see how ref 2 cites this claim.
  • "Just as I Am first week sales" odd again, either add "'s" after the song title or rephrase to avoid an awkward italics/non-italics clash.
  • Be consistent and link things the first time (e.g. Aria Awards/Aria Music Awards...)
  • Not sure why there's so much focus in the lead on awards - this is a discog not a list of awards/nominations.
  • "were eclectic mixtures of soul, R&B and pop" sounds like a sales pitch.
  • "Sebastian's eight album" missing an "h".
  • Lead/infobox says six studio albums yet seven are listed.
  • Where is Your Song release detail cited? The article also says it was on Sony BMG Australia, not simply Sony BMG...
  • Where is "Linger" referenced?
  • Charity singles aren't covered in the lead.
  • "Little Drummer Boy" is called "The Little Drummer Boy".
  • Several empty cells for Directors, a previous table had a N/A instead of an empty cell, suggest consistency.
  • Check ref titles for WP:DASH violations, e.g. refs 10, 17, 19 .....
  • Ref 32 links the publisher, but ref 31 doesn't, and it's the same publisher. Be consistent.
  • Is it Sydney Morning Herald or The Sydney Morning Herald? Be consistent.
  • Not sure when eBay listings became reliable sources?
  • You mention "soul" a lot yet the discog isn't categorised by a "soul" category.

That's in on a very quick run through. Hope it helps. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:57, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Thanks for your comments! I've fixed up everything that you've noted except for a few things:
  • What do you mean by "Link "certification" suitably."
  • For the "the highest for an Australian Idol contestant" claim, there is a table in the Australian Idol discography page that supports this claim. How can I cite this?
  • You need an RS in this list, not rely on other articles for such. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:49, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Your Song release is cited in the infobox for that article.
  • For ref titles involving dashes, they're all copied directly from the sourced website and use the dashes that the website uses in their title. WP:DASH doesn't mention anything about using dashes in references? How do you think I should deal with these and which dashes should be used where? I just read Tim riley's comments below which further explains this. Fixing it up right now.
  • The Sydney Morning Herald is only mentioned once in the entire article in ref 16.
  • There is no category that I can see exists for soul music discographies.
Everything else you mentioned has been adjusted. Thank you! — Usfun8991 (talk) 09:35, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man:
  • Regarding this
"the highest for an Australian Idol contestant" I don't see how ref 2 cites this claim.
The reference supplied for this (ref 2) is a link to the Certification lists for each year from the Australian Recording Industry Association website going back to 1997, the site where all Australian certifications are recorded.
http://www.aria.com.au/pages/aria-charts-accreditations.htm
Australian Idol contestants releases have been receiving certifications since 2003. As there are album and singles involved and they are recorded in separate pages at ARIA for each year, and as they do not list separate tallies for individual acts, the only way to cite all certifications to show Sebastian has the highest was to give that link. Otherwise 24 separate references would be needed to show all Idol releases over those 12 years. I linked that statement to the Australian Idol discography page certification table to help varify this, as although the table itself does not have references (again because it would require too many) the page itself has every certification for every Australian Idol release cited from the ARIA website. Sebastian has by far the most certifications and sales. With 51 platinum and four gold he has almost triple the next highest (Shannon Noll) who has 17 platinum and three gold.
Natbelle (talk) 10:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: @Natbelle: As Natbelle mentioned above there is no single source that shows that has the most certifications. The only way is to look through that source and count for yourself how many certifications each Australian Idol artist has received. If it's not a reliable enough source, I'm sure it won't hurt to just not include the sentence at all in the article and leave it for the Australian Idol discography page. — Usfun8991 (talk) 10:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Usfun8991: There have been articles which mention Sebastian as being the most successful and mention sales. The most recent I can find is from 2012, with Sebastian listed with sales of 2.4 million, and Noll was listed as the next most successful with sales of around 1.3 million. Sebastian has of course sold over 1.3 million more since then, and very few other Idol contestants except Jessica Mauboy and Matt Corby have added to their tallies since 2012. This is the article. Perhaps it could be included as added proof.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/winners-and-losers-in-tv-fame-game/story-fnbk7kwa-1226518000746
I don't see why it should be removed. Many articles these days refer to Sebastian as the most successful, as it is very obvious from his record sales, and the wikipedia article the statement was linked to cites all certifications for Idol releases from the most reliable reference of all, ARIA itself.
Natbelle (talk) 11:09, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Natbelle: I'll use that reference then. It supports the claim that Guy is the most successful Idol contestant. If someone is sceptical about the Herald Sun information they can go through the ARIA source. Thanks for finding it! — Usfun8991 (talk) 11:34, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: I think I've fixed everything up now. What is the conclusion from you? — Usfun8991 (talk) 09:46, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. As I noted, these comments came from a very quick run through. If I have time, I'll do a more detailed review. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:42, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: Alright thanks for your help anyway. Would you just mind collapsing your comments and marking them as resolved as we've created a very long thread that takes up most of the page. Thanks. — Usfun8991 (talk) 11:50, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I tried that but something about your signature or something else means the {{rc}} template fails. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:54, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: Yeah I fixed that issue up. Try it again now. — Usfun8991 (talk) 12:31, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Comments – The subject is not one I know anything about, and I cannot usefully comment on how the page matches FL criterion 3. A few comments, which I hope will be useful:

  • Lead
    • "the highest for an Australian Idol contestant" – missing a word, evidently. I think you want "the highest number"
  • Singles
    • To a non-expert in popular music the distinction between "with" and "featuring" in the first column isn't obvious
  • References
    • The Manual of Style (MOS:QUOTE) bids us rationalise punctuation within quotations, on which basis I think you ought to replace the hyphens and spaced em-dashes in your references (e.g. refs 71-80 etc) with spaced en-dashes or unspaced em-dashes.
    • Similarly I think, with regard to MOS:QUOTE, the titles of songs should be capitalised in the refs to conform with how they are capitalised in the main text, so that – for instance – you don't have "Oh, Oh" in the text and "Oh, oh" in the refs, and similarly with "In the Midnight Hour/In The Midnight Hour" and so on.
    • Ref 66: inner quotes should be single.

That's all from me. Tim riley talk 09:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Tim riley: "featuring" means the artist is featuring on (Guy Sebastian)'s song, where as "with" means both artists are credited equally for the song. This is also made evident in the individual articles. Also, what do you mean by inner quotes? — Usfun8991 (talk) 10:54, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"With/featuring": understood – fine. Quotes: "Guy Sebastian – "Kryptonite"" should be "Guy Sebastian – 'Kryptonite'",with doubles at the start and end and singles inside, round Kryptonite. Tim riley talk 13:31, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Tim riley: Okay, all fixed now! — Usfun8991 (talk) 23:05, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support having completed my comments listed. -AngusWOOF (talk) 15:14, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from AngusWOOF (talk) 23:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • When using the phrase number one as a compound adjective, include the hyphen: e.g. "number one platinum seller" should be "number-one platinum seller".
  • In the Other appearances section, there are several recordings with the same title such as "The Christmas Song". Does that mean they were re-recorded for each album? If they are the same track, then group their albums. "What a Wonderful World" was on his original album but also put on the compilation album. If they are different renditions, that's fine. Regardless, only the first version should be linked.
  • In the Other appearances section, rowspan on years should be avoided per MOS:ACCESS, although exceptions might be made for the albums column. I'm not sure how to best apply that here, but when rowspans are just two entries long it doesn't make sense to keep that distinction.
  • Is there a way to pare down the certifications and results in the prose paragraphs? They are all detailed in the tables anyway. Singles focus more on whether it reached number one and albums can be more about the number of copies sold. Just comparing it to Beyoncé discography which is FL.

-AngusWOOF (talk) 18:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC) updated 18:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As an update to this, please check WP:DISCOGSTYLE which has the note "Non-original or previously-released material used on soundtracks, trailers, commercials, or any other compilation releases". -AngusWOOF (talk) 22:57, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@AngusWOOF: Thanks for your comments! I've listened to the previews for "The Christmas Song" on iTunes and the 2009 and 2010 versions are exactly the same. I could not find the 2004 one anywhere, but one would assume that he wouldn't reuse the same rendition after 5 years. Also, how exactly would I group releases from different years (2004, 2009, 2010)? Other FLs like Beyonce discography and Lady Gaga discography have all their tables with rowspans on the years. I can't find anything on MOS:ACCESS related to rowspans. Wouldn't it be preferred to maintain consistency throughout the article and use rowspans across years? With the "Non-original or previously-released material used on soundtracks, trailers, commercials, or any other compilation releases", do you want me to remove some entries in the Other appearances section? If so, which ones? Everything else you mentioned has been fixed up. — Usfun8991 (talk) 23:29, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I would list just the first instance of "The Christmas Song" (2004), assuming he hadn't already recorded it for an album. That wouldn't disrupt the years. The later versions can be treated like B-sides and remixes. Unless that version was particularly notable, it doesn't need to be added. "What a Wonderful World" can stay since he recorded that for the show compilation album before he added it to his debut (or whatever later) album. -AngusWOOF (talk) 23:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@AngusWOOF: Okay, all done now! — Usfun8991 (talk) 00:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Natbelle cleaned up some of the certs from the singles, leaving them just for the albums. Thanks for doing that. -AngusWOOF (talk) 03:16, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@AngusWOOF: Is there anything else that needs to be fixed up? — Usfun8991 (talk) 03:26, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@AngusWOOF:
I have removed the Australian single certifications from the lead to unclutter it. I have left the album certifications in rather than giving sales figures because actual "copies sold" is difficult in Australia, as although some media outlets are given actual sales figures by ARIA, they rarely release them to the public except when records are broken or in the case of tv talent show albums, in writing stories about the success or non-success of indiviual acts. Hence the highest one week sales in Australian history are known, as are the sales figures of most reality tv debut albums as the media has done stories on them. The only indication of sales generally are the certifications, which of course are shipped units, not neccessarily sold units, so using them to calculate actual sales would not be accurate and there is no other source I can think of.
Natbelle (talk) 03:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that should make the paragraphs easier to read through. -AngusWOOF (talk) 03:34, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove (AUS) from Studio albums tables. Add note at head of albums "All release dates pertain to their release in Australia, unless stated." -AngusWOOF (talk) 03:25, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@AngusWOOF: Prosperosity asked me earlier this week in this nomination page to include (AUS), but I just re-read the WP:DISCOGSTYLE page which mentions that the earliest release date should be mentioned so I've removed it now. If everything is fine now, is it a support from you? — Usfun8991 (talk) 09:36, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The AUS can be added back when he releases and charts more studio albums worldwide. -AngusWOOF (talk) 15:14, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Seattle (talk) 17:27, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comments:
  • Sebastian's winner's single what does this mean?
  • Can you link "debut album" to Boyle's debut album?
  • reached number two with a number one platinum lead single can you link / state which single that was?
  • Double period in ref 83
  • What makes "rapdirt.com" a reliable reference?
  • Reference 81 doesn't appear to be from an authorized source (like Vevo on YouTube)
  • Reference 66 doesn't appear to be from an authorized source
  • Reference 27 needs a space after (1 December 2014). Seattle (talk) 18:54, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Seattle: Thanks for your help! The winner's single in music reality television shows is the single that is created for the finalists and is released if the finalist wins the competition. This is the same with Alive (Dami Im song) or Stand By You, more recent examples of Australian reality show winners. I've just removed the rapdirt source completely as Guy Sebastian is only providing backing vocals for the song and isn't credited personally for the release. With ref 66 (now 64), the YouTube source is the only available copy that I can find on the internet for the music video probably because it is too old. Everything else has been fixed up! — Usfun8991 (talk) 23:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Usfun8991: Can you link "winner's single" anywhere? Wikipedia does not link to copyright violations; see WP:ELNEVER. You can use Template:Cite AV media to cite the music video without the URL. Seattle (talk) 02:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Seattle: Although "winner's single" is the correct term for the song, I can't find any sources that mention this so I've just changed it to "debut single". Is the citation for the CD correct now? — Usfun8991 (talk) 02:37, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Usfun8991: Yes, that citation is fine. However, the citation to ""Guy Sebastian – All I Need Is You". YouTube. 25 January 2010. Retrieved 14 December 2014." (ref 65) should be converted to use the cite AV media template as well, with the Youtube link removed. Seattle (talk) 03:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Seattle: User Natbelle has found a reference that they think is suitable (see ref 65). Is this a reliable enough source? If not, I'll just change it back to the cite AV media template. Otherwise, would it be a support or oppose from you? — 'Usfun8991 (talk) 09:38, 18 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Usfun8991: I can't find a statement of authorization on the site, so I would prefer the reference you had. Seattle (talk) 02:21, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Seattle: Changed it back now. Is there anything else or is it all good? — Usfun8991 (talk) 02:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "EP" section in the infobox doesn't link to any section in the article
  • References 26 and 27 need ndsahes
  • Ref 37 has a different style than other Billboard references
  • Ref 7 needs a space after the title
  • Ref 53 needs a space after the date
  • Ref 11 needs italics for the Herald Sun
  • Ref 62 is formatted differently than the other references
  • Ref 3 doesn't cite Noise Network as the publisher. Seattle (talk) 02:53, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Seattle: All done and fixed up! — Usfun8991 (talk) 03:20, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/Guy_Sebastian_discography/archive1&oldid=1138480365"