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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Super Mario Galaxy/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 14:49, 26 November 2016 [1].

Super Mario Galaxy edit

Nominator(s): JAGUAR  21:22, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well this was unexpected. I first started work on this article in May when I went through my loft and found my old collection of ONM issues which spanned from 2006 to 2011. I remember my ten year old self reading through one of those issues and looking forward to this game. I've used a couple of those issues for this article, and my subsequent expansion and redevelopment of it carried on for a while. It has just gained GA status, and to be frank I think that this is ready for FAC. For a game considered "one of greatest" I tried making a comprehensive reception section, and even went overboard on development I think. JAGUAR  21:22, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Famous Hobo edit

Well that was certainly fast. Personally, I would have combed through the article a few more times before nominating it for FAC, but if you believe it's ready, then let's put it to the test.

I think the most important thing was to make sure that all of the sources verified the content in the article (something I used to struggle with), but I took extra liberties to make sure that I got it right while developing this for GA. In particular, I basically wrote the development and reception sections from scratch, so I found sourcing it quite easy as I had everything there (including the physical magazines). I know that comprehensiveness is more of an issue for the FA criteria, and minor issues on prose would definitely be tackled in the review. Anyway, I'll be happy to address these issues! JAGUAR  20:02, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • It was first released on 1 November 2007 in Japan, 12 November 2007 in North America, 16 November 2007 in Europe and on 29 November 2007 in Australia. This is just a long list of release dates that most people don't care about. According to WP:VG/DATE, the release dates should be generalized, so maybe just say it was released in November 2007, it covers every release date.
  • It is the third 3D original game in the Super Mario series and the eighth main instalment overall. Link 3D. Also, what is original supposed to mean? Why not just say third 3D game, since I'm assuming your referring to SM64, Sunshine, and Galaxy.
  • Done, and I went with just 'third 3D game', although original tends to mean that it is the third main 3D game. JAGUAR  19:57, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The game was re-released as a Nintendo Selects title in 2011, and as a download via the Wii U's eShop on 31 May 2015 in Japan, 24 December 2015 in North America, and on 4 February 2016 in Europe. Once again, just a list of release dates that no one cares about. Why not just simplify the sentence to say something along the lines "The game has was re-released as a Nintendo Selects title in 2011 and on the Wii U's eShop in 2015"
  • Done, although it was released in Europe in 2016. JAGUAR  20:15, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • It has since won several awards from gaming publications, including multiple "Game of the Year" awards and a BAFTA. What you linked was the BAFTA award show, so a game can't win an award show. Since it won the BAFTA award for Game of the Year, why not just remove that bit and keep it as "including multiple "Game of the Year" awards"?
  • I think a game winning a BAFTA is very significant, and the article links to the charity itself. I've rephrased this slightly so hopefully it's clearer. JAGUAR  19:57, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is listed among the top-rated games on various aggregate sites, and is the highest-ranked title on review aggregator GameRankings. This line is redundant. You already mentioned this game's critical acclaim, and how it's regarded as one of the best games ever. This line show be removed

Gameplay

  • Super Mario Galaxy is set in outer space,[1][2] where Mario travels from galaxy to galaxy to collect Power Stars, which are earned by completing levels in galaxies or defeating enemies.[3][1] The last two refs are out of order, always keep the refs in numerical order if they are next to each other
  • The game uses a new physics engine that allows for a unique feature; each astronomical object has its own gravitational force, allowing the player to completely circumnavigate rounded or irregular planetoids, walking sideways or upside down. Is it important to mention the new physics engine here? This section is about the gameplay, anything game engine related stuff should be kept in the development section.
  • Removed the bit about the engine. It's explained thoroughly in development. JAGUAR  11:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The game's main hub is the Comet Observatory, a spaceship which contains six themed domes that provide access to the 42 galaxies available in the game.[3] Five of the domes end with a boss level in which the object is to defeat Bowser or Bowser Jr., which then allows the player collect a Grand Star in order to access the next dome. Why do only five of the six domes have a boss? What's unique about the sixth dome?
  • I'm not sure, I looked it up on its wiki and found that one of the domes had no boss for no particular reason. The reason for this isn't covered in any RS, although the manual mentions it. JAGUAR  11:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • When the player first begins the game, access is available to only a few galaxies. This reads a bit awkwardly, try "The player only has access to a few galaxies when they begin the game".
  • Thanks, done. JAGUAR  11:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Once 120 Power Stars are collected with both characters, the player is rewarded one additional challenge for Mario and Luigi to complete, as well as two commemorative pictures that can be sent to the Wii Message Board upon each brother completing the challenge. I vaguely remember what the message board was, but for someone who doesn't have a Wii, they won't know what it is. This should either be linked, or explained in more detail.
  • I linked it. Seems better that way JAGUAR  11:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The most basic feature is the Star Pointer, which appears on-screen (as long as the remote is pointed at the screen) for the entire game. I don't get this line. Is the Star Pointer a cursor? If so, then the line should read "The most basic feature is the Star Pointer, which is a cursor that appears on-screen..."
  • Yeah, it's a cursor. I should have been clearer. Fixed. JAGUAR  11:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Firstly, the Star Pointer is used to pick up special konpeito-shaped objects called "Star Bits", which are then shot to stun enemies, manipulate obstacles, or feed Hungry Lumas. What's a Luma?
  • Nine power-ups supply Mario with a special costume that grants him new abilities. For example, special mushrooms bestow the player with a Bee, Boo, or Spring Suit. First, link power-up. Secondly, I actually don't like how certain words are linked. For example, I think we all know what a bee is, so that doesn't need to be linked, and neither does spring. As for Boo, it should be linked to Boo (character).
  • Good catch, removed bee link and added others. JAGUAR  11:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Super Star grants Mario invincibility, allowing him to destroy any enemies that he touches, as well as jumping higher and running faster. The Super Star link just leads to the Super Mario page with no context.
  • When the power meter becomes empty, the player loses a life and must go back to a predetermined checkpoint.[16] The power meter can be temporarily expanded to six units... This threw me for a loop. Why not just say health meter instead of power meter, as I thought power meter was a new gameplay aspect.
  • Good catch, I see how that sounds confusing. Fixed. JAGUAR  11:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Plot

  • Not much to say, as it's well written

Development

  • My biggest problem with the development section is how all of the sources are from Nintendo. Obviously, if that's all you could find on the game's development, that's fine, but there are several interviews about the game, such as IGN, Wired, and Music4Games. I'm not sure how much info you'll be able to get out of those interviews, but if there is some additional information, it needs to be included in the article.
  • I've added the citations in the article, and should hopefully begin to expand the development using those sources you gave me. Thanks for that! JAGUAR  14:57, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto suggested to work on the next large-scale Mario game after Nintendo EAD Tokyo finished development on Donkey Kong Jungle Beat in late 2004,[26][27] pushing for the spherical platform concept to be realised. Are you referring to the character Mario, or the series? If it's the series, then it should be italicized
  • I should remember to use Super Mario when mentioning the series. JAGUAR  14:57, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The game's script was written by Takayuki Ikkaku. This seems rather thrown in, as Ikkaku is not mentioned at all in the rest of the article. I noticed that the source you used was the game credits, which is fine, but are there any other sources mentioning Ikkaku's role in the game? If not, I'd just remove that line.
  • I couldn't even find him in the game's manual, so I removed that line. JAGUAR  15:03, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The composition was approved by Yoshiaki Koizumi, the game's director and designer, but when Yokota presented it to Koji Kondo, he stated that it was "no good". You already linked and explained who Koizumi was earlier, while on the other hand, there is no explanation as to who Kondo is. Also, what was Kondo's role in the development? If Yokota was in charge of the musical direction, was Kondo just there for moral support?
  • Kondo was technically in charge of the soundtrack although Yokota did the majority of the work. The source you gave me mentioned that he acted as sound supervisor, so I mentioned that. JAGUAR  15:03, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yotaka revealed that he initially struggled to create music that sounded like Mario, but as time progressed he declared that the songs he made for the game had "become natural". A song can't sound like a character.
  • Changed to Super Mario. JAGUAR  15:03, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

  • It is the second best ranking game with at least ten reviews on the review aggregator website GameRankings,[58] and the best ranking game of all time with at least 20 reviews,[59] having a score of 97% based on 78 reviews.[37] As discussed a while ago, GameRankings should only be used if Metacritic is not available, which it is. With that said, every Gamerankings sentence should be removed, including from the review score box.
  • Removed all, with the exception of the awards (for now?) JAGUAR  15:23, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The game is also the sixth highest rated game of all-time on Metacritic,[60] with a score of 97/100 based on 73 reviews. A 97/100 means nothing, as it is just a number. I'd recommend looking at how Pokémon Black and White does its Metacritic section, by saying what the score equates to.
  • Rephrased. Yup I sent Black and White to GA ;-D Would I need to say what 97% equates to? The introduction states that the game received critical acclaim and I think that a reader could gather that 97% based on 74 reviews means that it was well received. I'm not too sure on this, so let me know if you want it rephrased further. JAGUAR  15:32, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This was something that was pointed out in the Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward FAC. PresN said "Try mixing up the "Bob of Website" formula- "Website's Bob", "Writing for Website, Bob"
  • Good idea. I tried mixing it up throughout. JAGUAR  15:32, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Jeremy Parish of 1UP noted that despite the Wii's limitations, the visuals were "absolutely impressive", especially when modified at a higher resolution. It's 1UP.com, not just 1UP.
  • However, Hudak criticised the "traditional Mario-esque" lack of voice acting, despite admitting that if the game did feature voice acting it would "probably seem lame and wrong". This sentence seems completely out of place in the music paragraph, as every other sentence discusses the music
  • I think it still belongs in that paragraph as it covers all things audio-related, whereas putting it in another paragraph would seem even more out of place. To help matters, I rephrased the introduction to "The soundtrack and audio were well received by critics" and moved the lack of voice acting criticism to the end. Hope that helps. JAGUAR  16:15, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Super Mario Galaxy received Game of the Year 2007 awards from IGN,[52] GameSpot,[53] Nintendo Power,[54] GameRankings,[55] Kotaku,[56] and Yahoo! Games.[57] Why seperate this line from the rest of the section? Also, don't use GameRankings.
  • Organisational purposes; I thought it looked weird having a 'listy' sentence in the same paragraph as one filled with prose. I can merge it if you think it's best. Is it really necessary to remove GameRankings here even if it's being used for awards and not an aggregate score? I'm not sure myself. JAGUAR  23:15, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Czar: I know that czar knows a lot more than me on when GameRankings should be used! Sorry to ping you, do you think it's OK if GameRankings should be used for citing awards and not aggregate scores I think that being the highest ranking game of the site should also be a significant mention. JAGUAR  15:08, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    (Ping me anytime) I'd distinguish between when editors bestow an award and when an item tops a list, but that's editorial discretion. In this case, GameRankings didn't give a GOTY award, so I'd recast the sentence as journalists who named the game the best of the year and then treat the aggregators and any other list-making groups separately. Definitely worth including, but in a separate sentence and not as a GOTY "award". czar 15:31, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I'm okay with what Czar suggested. Famous Hobo (talk) 15:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your input, I've moved the GameRankings mention to the end and separated it from the other GOTY awards. JAGUAR  16:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • On 7 February 2008, the game received the "Adventure Game of the Year" award from the Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences at the Interactive Achievement Awards. Why is it necessary to mention the exact day it won the award, while all of the other awards were simplified to the year they were given.
  • Mainly because it was the only source which mentioned a date, I think.
  • One thing that bothers me about the Awards section is that it just seems like a long list, and I really don't like how most of the sentences begin with "In 20XX". Try mixing up the wording so that it doesn't get so monotonous to read
  • Rephrased. JAGUAR  16:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, a very solid article, but it does have a number of issues that must be addressed before I can support it. Also, do you think you could return the favor by reviewing the Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward FAC. It just needs one more support, and while it looks like David Fuchs will be doing a review, any additional comments always help. Alternatively, there's that No Russian Peer Review I've got up. Famous Hobo (talk) 04:58, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • U R MR GAY. This should be in the article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 13:04, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wow that is such a trivial thing to place in an article I have no clue why you think it should be used. GamerPro64 14:54, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yeah, I was about to say that I don't think it would be worth mentioning. JAGUAR  14:55, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Trivial"? It was huge at the time. Here are more reliable sources. I am asking for one sentence in the article about it. Axl ¤ [Talk] 18:52, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just because it was used on sites like Kotaku doesn't mean it isn't trivial. What does it add to the article? What does it do that will help improve the article? GamerPro64 19:22, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This nasty personal attack followed by deletion of my legitimate opposition reflects very badly on the nominator. Axl ¤ [Talk] 17:06, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • You seriously want to add a sentence about "U R MR GAY" in this article? I thought you were joking. It's pointless, trivial, and isn't worth mentioning. JAGUAR  17:35, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"I thought you were joking." That doesn't explain why you called me a "fucking moron". Several reliable third-party sources have described it. That makes it non-trivial. Also, I expected to see it mentioned in the article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:42, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Where do you want this in the article, then? In the development section? Reception? And what is it going to look like? Upon release, some fans reported that the stars aligned on the game's cover art read out "U R MR GAY". I'm not putting a derogatory and infelicitous statement anywhere in this article, it doesn't belong here. It doesn't add any value. It's not worth it. It's trivial. It's almost like a joke. And another thing that's a joke is the fact that you had the nerve to oppose this FAC because I refused to put "U R MR GAY" in this article. Nevermind the fact that I've spent over a dozen hours of my time writing, researching and putting the effort into building this article up to an FA standard only to get derailed by somebody like you. I honestly thought you were trolling. Just because reliable sources cover it doesn't make it non trivial. Many reliable sources at WP:VG/S like IGN, Polygon and Kotaku also cover many trivial things like what the colour of a new Pokemon is going to be or a journalist's thoughts of a game's lore. It doesn't make it a pre-requisite reason to add something in an article. I thought that you were an intelligent person but the fact that your oppose read "It makes me sad that this glaring omission has spoilt an otherwise excellent article. I was expecting to read about this phenomenon in Wikipedia's article" made it look like you were tormenting. "U R MR GAY" is a glaring omission and a phenomenon, is it? JAGUAR  12:46, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
While I don't condone Jaguar's personal attack-- Axl, your request for "U R MR GAY" was challenged with "why is it notable?" and "what does it add?" and you immediately jumped to opposing the FA nomination. This was an extremely petulant move. "U R MR GAY" was already determined to be coincidental and non-notable through previous consensus. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 15:59, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
When multiple independent reliable sources describe a phenomenon, that makes it notable. Asking "what makes it notable?" after these references have been clearly linked is... not sensible.
I still believe that a sentence about this should be in the article, and I stand by my opposition. If the community consensus is against me, I shall of course submit to the consensus. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:47, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Famous Hobo: thank you for your comments! I should have hopefully addressed everything above. JAGUAR  16:15, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – Although I've never played this game, I've been known to take on a Mario platformer from time to time. I haven't read through much of the article yet, but here are a few initial thoughts:

  • This might be a British English thing, but is "instalment" meant to have only one l?
  • Yep, 'instalment' with one 'l' is used everywhere outside the US JAGUAR  14:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with different variations of gravity being the central element of gameplay." Since this is one of those "noun-plus -ing" connectors that us prose people don't really like, how would you feel about dropping "being" altogether?
  • So it would just read with different variations of gravity the central element of gameplay? I've removed "being", I hope it sounds OK. JAGUAR  14:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The concept for the game's use of spherical platforms were first conceptualized...". "were" → "was", since this refers to the concept (singular), not the platforms themselves (plural).
  • Thanks, fixed JAGUAR  14:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The U R MR GAY stuff seems like indiscriminate information for this article, at least in my view. Not everything published in reliable sources should be included in articles, and I wouldn't expect to see cover art issues be prominently mentioned, unless there's some new video game style standard I'm unaware of. Giants2008 (Talk) 22:22, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Giants2008: I agree, I don't think it's worth mentioning in the first place. Anyway, thank you for your comments! I've addressed all of your points above. JAGUAR  14:25, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Development: "desired that one its distinguishing features" needs "of" after "one", I reckon.
  • Added, I think that was a mistake. JAGUAR  21:41, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I doubt that gravity needs a link, since that is such a basic concept.
  • Removed. JAGUAR  21:41, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The grammar in "Iwata noted an increasing number of consumers to give up during a video game" doesn't seem to be that great. Maybe try "giving up" in the middle?
  • Shouldn't a 1-Up link be somewhere in the gameplay section instead, where its first mention is?
  • Well spotted, fixed JAGUAR  21:41, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and devised ways on how they should incorporate an idea into the game and make it the most entertaining." The beginning of this bit is a little wordy, and the "most entertaining" part doesn't make sense (most entertaining what). How about "and devised ways to incorporate an idea into the game and make it entertaining (as entertaining as possible?)" instead, or some variant of that?
  • I went with your suggestion, but added "more entertaining" at the end. JAGUAR  21:41, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove "the" from "that the Super Mario Galaxy's co-operative mode".
  • Music: Minor, but refs 28 and 35 could be reversed to numerical order.
  • Super Mario Bros. has a double period at the end. You just need the one from the game's title.
  • The Super Mario Bros. title has a full stop in itself, but I removed it anyway as I know it will only cause confusion with more readers. I thought Nights into Dreams... was bad enough. JAGUAR  16:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I still see this one in the article. It's in the second paragraph of Music, in case there was another one I didn't notice. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:21, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Didn't spot that, removed. Thanks. JAGUAR  22:06, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • If we don't have a Donkey Kong Jungle Beat link earlier, please consider adding one here.
  • There was already one in the development section JAGUAR  16:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reception: Super Mario Sunshine probably doesn't need the link, since there was one earlier.
  • Same for Super Mario 64.
  • "The gameplay ... were also praised." "were" → "was". That word is referring to the gameplay itself, not the specific elements I skipped over; therefore it should be in singular tense. If it was "gameplay element" or similar, then you could get away with a plural.
  • Fixed. A mistake on my part. JAGUAR  16:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sequel: Remove "the" before Famitsu.
  • Add "was" before "originally called Super Mario Galaxy More". Giants2008 (Talk) 20:43, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Giants2008: thanks for the review! I've addressed all of your comments. And sorry for the delay, I've been having internet problems lately. JAGUAR  16:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – The article seems to be comprehensive for its field, and I'm satisfied with the writing after the above fixes. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:03, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ThomasO1989 edit

I've got more comments on the way, but I can finish those up later tonight or this weekend.

Gameplay

  • Super Mario Galaxy is set in outer space, where Mario travels from galaxy to galaxy to collect Power Stars, which are earned by completing levels in galaxies or defeating enemies. This sentence reads a little funny. Maybe change "from galaxy to galaxy" to "to different galaxies"? The "completing levels in galaxies" is a bit redundant, how about "earned by completing missions". You could then quickly cover one or two types of missions ("defeating a boss" or "reaching a particular area").
  • Thanks, I went with all of your suggestions. Not sure if "missions" are applicable for the genre of this game but it sounds better that way. JAGUAR  13:27, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mario is given new moves that take advantage of the Wii Remote's pointer and motion sensing. I think it might make sense to cut out this part of the sentence altogether and mention where the Wii Remote's functions are used only when it's the main point. So in this paragraph, you may have like "The player controls the Star Pointer, a cursor that appears on-screen, with the Wii Remote pointer". Since the use of motion controls used to do a spin is explicitly brought up in Development, mention them in the second paragraph when talking about the spin.
  • Cut and rephrased. I hope I got this right. JAGUAR  13:50, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • the Star Pointer is used to blow air at it to influence the direction and speed it moves. This sentence seems a bit wordy, though I believe it's been there for years. Maybe use something simple, like the Star Pointer is used to push the bubble around.
  • Someone else could chime in, but should adverbs like "firstly", "secondly", and "thirdly" be used in formal writing?
  • I think it sounds formal? I changed them anyway, with the exception of "secondly" (I think that should be fine). JAGUAR  13:50, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nine power-ups supply Mario with a special costume that grants him new abilities. Add the word "each" to imply that the power-ups are different and the word "temporary" (or a variation thereof) to imply they're not permanent.
  • Well spotted, added! JAGUAR  13:54, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Instant death can occur by being swallowed by quicksand or dark matter; falling into bottomless pits, which either consist of black holes or leaving a planet's gravitational pull and falling into space; getting crushed between objects; losing a race against a non-player character; or other special challenges. Is it truly necessary to list all potential ways Mario could die?
  • Probably not, so I cut down on a few. JAGUAR  13:54, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Plot

This section could use some trimming. Not that it's overly long, it just seems a bit wordy, like it's describing certain cutscenes in more detail than what is necessary. I can help out with this one if you'd like.

That would be appreciated! I don't think it's too long, in fact I think it's just about right for a game like this since it's not plot-heavy. Anyway, I'll try and cut it down slightly. JAGUAR  13:54, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Development

My issues with this section stem from certain points being presented a bit haphazardly... it could use some re-arranging. There is also many passive sentences.

  • Takeo Shimizu, the game's producer and programmer, noted that the most basic action in a 3D action game was to simply run, and concluded that the easiest way to attack was to "spin", not jump. Move this sentence before the immediately preceding one, since it is directly related to why spin was done in the first place.
  • the "spin" was changed to be activated through shaking the latter. Technically both controllers' sensing activate the spin, so this should be changed.
  • The "spin" is only activated through shaking the Wii Remote, not the Nunchuk? JAGUAR  14:16, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • To clarify, the player can actually shake either controller to activate Mario's spin, not just the Wii Remote.-- ThomasO1989 (talk) 02:23, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding this decision, Koizumi said that he wanted... You could do away with "Regarding this decision" since the topic is still on Koizumi.
  • Furthermore, Iwata added that decreasing... Add "retrospectively" and remove "furthermore".
  • The images are pretty, but what do they add to the article? They just seem decorative.
  • I think that they're important as they display key factors of the gameplay/development and show the reader what the developer's focus was. The top image shows a galaxy and the bottom image shows a spherical planetoid, with both featuring prominently throughout the article. I'd prefer to keep them, but it would be a shame to lose them. JAGUAR  14:16, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't agree with this. I don't think a picture of outer space is necessary to show that the developer's focus was on space anymore than Super Mario Sunshine needs a picture of water, or Pikmin a picture of a garden. The "spherical planetoid" is just a panoramic image, not an actual planetoid. It would make more sense to include them if these exact pictures inspired the gameplay, art, or story. A good example is the picture of "The Swing" used in the article Tangled, since the artist's work was actually used as a direct reference. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 14:49, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • You make some good points, so I removed the images from development. JAGUAR  20:16, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the paragraph on the level design should be combined with the initial idea to use spherical platforms in the first place (first paragraph) since they are directly related.
  • Like this? Won't that make it too long? I don't understand JAGUAR  14:16, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I do think they can be merged into a subsection, "Design", like what is done with Music. Some information could also be cut or condensed. I can write up a draft in my sandbox and present it for comments. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 02:29, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • A "Design" subsection before the music section? I'll try something in a minute. I'm not sure if it would its chronological order. JAGUAR  14:00, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Music

  • The task of creating the game's sound effects [...] like they were having that experience. This reads a little too long and doesn't paraphrase the source well. Here is a suggested condensed version: The game originally heavily utilized the Wii Remote speaker for "all sorts of sound [effects]", but Masafumi Kawamura, the game's sound director, decided they were redundant when played in tangent with those from the television. Kawamura decided to restrict Wii Remote sound effects to those triggered by Mario's actions, such as hitting an enemy, feeling that it better immersed the player.
  • Thank you! I went with that. JAGUAR  14:00, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@ThomasO1989: thank you for your review! I've tried to address everything but I didn't understand a couple of your points, such as merging the level design paragraph into the first and the "spin" attack sentence, as the attack itself is accomplished by shaking only one of the controllers, not both. I prefer to keep the images as they show significant symbolism, but I'll remove them if I must. Sorry for coming to this review late, as I've been very busy with RL as well as sorting out a grant I applied on Wikimedia. If you have more comments, I'll be happy to address them. Thanks again! JAGUAR  14:16, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Tintor2 (talk) 00:33, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's already an article deserving to be an FA but there are somethings I would like to point out:
    • There are some references that are used about four times. I would suggest archiving them but that's not an issue (I'm looking at you 1UP)
      • I archived 1UP through WebCite as well as the more prominently used ones. It would be a nightmare if they all expired. JAGUAR  14:00, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • The plot section is unreferenced. I know that's not relevant, but could the "Super Mario Galaxy instruction manual" be used to reference some parts?
      • The manual only mentions the prologue, so I sourced whatever I could from it. I know that sourcing the plot isn't usually required (thank god), but it wouldn't hurt to have a citation or two in there. JAGUAR  14:00, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Lastly references 79 and 80 look a bit redundant since Metacritic already has all the review.
      • Well spotted! Removed both. JAGUAR  14:00, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anyway good with the article, I really hope it becomes a FA. Also, if you have free time could you provide feedback to my own FAN? It's a bit inactive. Cheers.

@Tintor2: thank you for the comments! I promise to take a look at your FAC soon, I've been held up with other matters lately. I have addressed everything you mentioned above. I've archived the more important references, and sourced some parts of the plot via the manual. JAGUAR  14:00, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well then, now you have my support. Good work.Tintor2 (talk) 14:03, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

I'll be doing the source review @Jaguar:. It'll take a bit of time but everything seems well. I would appreciate it if you do the source review for Allen Walker.Tintor2 (talk) 19:08, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much! I'll start the source review tomorrow. Making sure that the sources confirm the article's prose is easy but takes a while. JAGUAR  20:04, 10 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll let it support or pass (it's my first time dealing with FA...) this review since all sources are reliable and are used well such as when quotes are used. However, I would recommend removing the GameRankings' cheats since that while is reliable, the cheats are provided by random users.Tintor2 (talk) 00:35, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the source review, Tintor! I'm so relieved that I wrote the majority of this from scratch, as that way I can be sure everything is sourced properly and not have it struggle like my earlier FACs. Anyway, I've removed the GameRanking cheats. 13:11, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

@WP:FAC coordinators: just checking if there's anything else needed for this nom? Source check is done, and the prose comments above have all been addressed. It's just that I hope to get this one done a bit quicker in stark contrast to last time! JAGUAR  11:56, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I know you pinged them both last month but I'd like to see again if we can't confirm from Famous Hobo and ThomasO1989 that they're satisfied with responses/actions re. their comments. Failing that we may need another pair of eyes, but let's see how we go... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:25, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@ThomasO1989 and Famous Hobo: do you have anything more to add? It's just that I'm really anxious to see this out of the way! If not, don't worry. JAGUAR  16:26, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I just left messages for both of the above for confirmation if they're happy with their points being addressed, although I can't think of anything else. JAGUAR  14:18, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Anarchyte edit

I hope this is the correct spot to put my section, if not, feel free to move it. . I haven't read any of the other comments by other users, so if I repeat something, my apologies.

Gameplay
  • where Mario travels through different galaxies to collect Power Stars, which are earned by completing missions, defeating a boss, or reaching a particular area. Are those two words necessary? IMO it flows better without it.
  • other space matter for the player to explore "Space matter"... Hm. Any other terms you could use to describe this?
  • I'm sure it means matter, but you're right. I've changed this to "orbiting structures", as I think that's the best way to describe it as in-game they appear as nonsensical platforms. JAGUAR  11:42, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • allowing the player to completely circumnavigate rounded or irregular planetoids, walking sideways or upside down. Would it be easier to simply remove those three words and write it as "completely circumnavigate the planetoids"?
  • Thanks, done. JAGUAR  11:42, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • in which the object is to defeat. Objective.
  • which then allows the player collect a Grand Star in order to access the next dome. Rearrange this to which then give the player access the next dome by collecting a Grand Star.
  • Grand Star. What's a Grand Star?
  • I think the sentence explains it, a Grand Star is needed proceed to the next dome. But let me know if you want it rephrasing/elaborating somehow. JAGUAR  11:42, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I guess that's fine, but if you wanted to elaborate, I guess you could write something like: "which then gives the player access to the next dome via acquiring a collectable called a Grand Star". Not the most perfect sentence, but it's a start (if you wanted to elaborate). Anarchyte (work | talk) 08:40, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks, that sounds better so I went with that. I'm sure that some readers won't know it's a collectable. JAGUAR  14:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • When 120 Power Stars are collected, the player gains the ability to play through the game again as Mario's brother Luigi. Once 120 Power Stars are collected with both characters, the player is rewarded one additional challenge for Mario and Luigi to complete, as well as two commemorative pictures that can be sent to the Wii Message Board upon each brother completing the challenge. Reword and rearrange so that it's something like The player is awarded the ability to play as Luigi after collecting 120 Power Stars as Mario. Once 120 Power Stars are collected with both characters, the player is rewarded one additional challenge for Mario and Luigi to complete, which upon completion, awards the player with two commemorative pictures that can be sent to the Wii Message Board. (I'm assuming you need to play as Mario to get this, I haven't played it myself, )
  • Thanks, I went with your suggestion. Yep Mario is the sole playable character throughout the game before the player gets all 120 stars. JAGUAR  11:42, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be able to take another look tomorrow. Anarchyte (work | talk) 11:02, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments, Anarchyte! So far all done. JAGUAR  11:42, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Jaguar: I've responded to one comment above. Anarchyte (work | talk) 08:40, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Jaguar: Here are some more comments regarding the gameplay section and its subsections:

  • which then give the player access the next dome by collecting a Grand Star. Do you mean gives?
  • Oops, fixed. JAGUAR  14:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • a new feature includes the Star Pointer Change to a new feature called the Star Pointer
  • which is a cursor that appears on-screen via Wii Remote pointer (as long as the remote is pointed at the screen). Hm... Cut it down to be which is a cursor that appears when the Wii Remote pointer is pointed at the screen.
  • Done, much better! JAGUAR  14:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • used to manoeuvre the bubble around. Remove "around".

Hope these additional comments help! I'll be back in an hour or so. Anarchyte (work | talk) 08:40, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm pretty sure that was one of the worst games of CS that I've ever played, but I'm back. Anarchyte (work | talk) 09:26, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The player gains a new ability early in the game, known as the "Spin" technique, which has previously appeared in varying forms. Try rewording to Early into the game, the player learns a new ability known as the "Spin" technique, which has had appearances in varying forms
  • Thanks, I changed the latter to "which has had appearances in varying forms throughout the Super Mario franchise" for unfamiliar readers. JAGUAR  14:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • that would otherwise be inaccessible. Fairly sure this is my personal preference, but I'd write "be" before "otherwise".
  • Re-arranged. JAGUAR  14:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • which is depleted by contact with enemies and hazards. Change to through.
  • Mario's health can be restored by collecting coins and his air supply by touching bubbles or coins. Not sure what you're getting at here.
  • That does sound a bit confusing to be honest. I've rephrased this to "Mario's health and air supply can be restored by collecting coins, or through touching bubbles if underwater". JAGUAR  14:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • enemy or hazard contact or if Mario suffers instant death. Add a comma between these two words.

And that's the end of my review of the gameplay section. If you'd like me to take a look at the reception, ping me . Anarchyte (work | talk) 09:38, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Anarchyte: thanks for the comments so far! I've addressed everything. Sorry to hear about the CSGO experience. If you're willing to go through the reception section (which I think would be the last as the development section has been covered already), then I'll be more than happy to get back to this as I think that's all that is left to be done here. JAGUAR  14:24, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You did a full review of my article, so I'll take a look at the reception. Anarchyte (work | talk) 3 November 2016, 05:35 (UTC)
Reception
  • The game received critical acclaim and was a commercial success upon release. It is the sixth highest rated game. Connect these two short sentences. upon release, becoming the sixth.
  • and large playing areas would constantly amaze the player. Not sure about this at all.
  • Changed to "astound", though I understand that the reviewer is trying to say that the game's large scale levels and good graphics would awestruck the player. JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • however he thought that Super Mario Galaxy "got both perfect". Remove "that".
  • stating that the game's detail is only matched by its mission design ingenuity. Remove "that".
  • however he noted that the visuals were in similar detail to Super Mario Sunshine. Remove "that".
  • Sorry about this... JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • stating that the game was polished, engaging and evocative. Repetition of "that" in that sentence. heh get it
  • Louis Bedigan from GameZone thought that the visualisations. Remove "that".
  • Matt Casamassina of IGN thought that Super Mario Galaxy was the only game that pushed the. Remove the red "that".
  • stating that "great art combines with great tech for stunning results". Paraphrase. stating it combines "great art" with "great tech", resulting in what he described to be "stunning results".
  • Thanks, done JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • commented that the game's tempo was "abnormally good". Change to commented on the game's tempo, believing it was "abnormally good"
  • stating that the control schemes were more subtle Remove "that".
  • breaking the laws of physics. Link laws of physics, if it hasn't been already.
  • and summarised that the game was the best title since. Change to and summarised by saying it was the best title since.
  • Rephrased. JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Similarly, Hudak thought that the game was a "next-gen reincarnation" of Super Mario 64. Repetition of what's said in the third paragraph.
  • Removed "next gen" and just left "reincarnation", seems much better this way. JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 49 isn't dead; add |deadurl=no to the template.
  • Added (never actually done that before) JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additionally, Casamassina regarded the motion control well implemented. Change to regarded the motion control as being well implemented.
  • Super Mario game, opining that each track. Fairly sure the reader would be sick of the word "opining" by this point. I know I am.
  • I agree, it's always good to use different synonyms to mix things up. I've changed this to "declared". JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Williams opined that the game featured the best sound on the Wii. Change "opined" and if it makes sense to do so afterwards, removed "that".
  • Last "that" has been exterminated! Thanks. JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hope this helps. I'm off to go lose another game of Hearthstone. Anarchyte (work | talk) 05:57, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Anarchyte: thank you so much for the helpful review! I've definitely addressed everything now. Sorry about the "that" repetition in the reception, I'll be careful to avoid repeating it in the future. JAGUAR  12:34, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Anarchyte: it only took me an hour but I finally managed to archive all of the links, with the sole exception of one GameSpot link as there weren't any archived versions available, but that should be OK. JAGUAR  22:20, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Jaguar: With all this done, I'll throw in my support. I have no other requests except for a |deadurl=no to be added to every live reference. Anarchyte (work | talk) 05:26, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again! I've just added the "|deadurl=no" to all of the non-dead links. JAGUAR  12:39, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian Rose: just successfully addressed a new set of comments. Would there be anything else needed for this nom before it's ready? JAGUAR  12:43, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@WP:FAC coordinators: , ping JAGUAR  23:49, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I haven't responded before now, Jaguar... Although there's some discussion of the images above, I didn't notice a review re. the licensing. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:50, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I thought that all the images are non-free screenshots? Ah, just realised that the picture of Yoshiaki Koizumi is actually a real life photograph so I'll check it out... JAGUAR  17:20, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but we'll still need someone other than yourself as nominator to verify licensing -- the usual thing. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:35, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Anarchyte: I'm so sorry to bother you again. Would you mind quickly looking over the licensing of the images? Or if it doesn't seem right to ask someone to do two reviews in a FAC, I'll ask someone else. This article has three images so I'm sure it won't take long! JAGUAR  12:16, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Appropriately licensed but I am not sure about the usage of four non-free images in one article since they fail WP:NFCC#8 and MOS:FILM#Soundtrack. – FrB.TG (talk) 13:16, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for the review. I think it should be fine per WP:VGIMAGES as I've also seen VG FAs with more than two non-free screenshots. JAGUAR  13:40, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think you need to provide WP:ALT text for the images. - FrB.TG (talk) 13:55, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@FrB.TG: added! JAGUAR  14:07, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! @Ian Rose: I have reviewed the images - if a prose review is needed please ping me, although this seems to have had a lot of commentaries on that one. – FrB.TG (talk) 14:13, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've scanned the prose myself for some 'expressions to watch' and tweaked accordingly, so with the other reviews I think that about does it, tks FrB. Jaguar, I'm going to promote but there are several duplinks that you can probably do without, pls review/action (if you need a link to the dupcheck script, let me know). Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:48, 26 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that! I've just removed all of the duplinks. JAGUAR  19:01, 26 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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