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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Scorpion/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 18 December 2020 [1].

Scorpion edit

Nominator(s): LittleJerry (talk) and Chiswick Chap 20:36, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

This article is about scorpions, an iconic group of deadly predators. We've been working on this article for a couple months and it is already a GA. We now feel it is ready. LittleJerry (talk) 20:28, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass edit

  • File:Scorpion Photograph By Shantanu Kuveskar.jpg —isn't there a better quality, higher-res image for the infobox?
Would File:Asian forest scorpion in Khao Yai National Park.JPG be better? LittleJerry (talk) 22:52, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Buidhe? LittleJerry (talk) 20:40, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That image is better, although tall images aren't ideal for infoboxes either. (t · c) buidhe 20:45, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Scorpiones distribution.png — needs a verifiable source in the image description for this being an accurate projection of scorpions' distribution
Its does. Didn't you see the link to the Scorpion Systematics Research Group? LittleJerry (talk) 02:23, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is some sandwiching in "Morphology" and "Biology" sections, against MOS:IMAGELOC
    • Addressed.
  • I removed some images from galleries where it wasn't clear to me whether they were adding value to reader understanding of the topic
    • Noted.
  • The images in this version of the article are verified to be available under a free license[2]
    • Noted.

(t · c) buidhe 20:21, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Buidhe

Comments by Esculenta edit

  • "More recently, thirteen families and about 1,750 species and subspecies of scorpions have been described.” This is sourced to a 2009 publication. Is there nothing more recent with updated numbers? In fact, one of your citations (Howard et al. 2019) mentions over 2400 extant species. I added up the species numbers given the taxonomy section and got 2274, which is at odds with what’s stated earlier (and also in the lead).
Updated taxonomy section, list, and lead. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:49, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”In addition, there are 111 described taxa of fossil scorpions.” This is certainly out of date, as many fossil taxa have been described since 2009. This source (2018) might have more current information, as might Howard et al. 2019.
Fixed. This book gives 121 species. Neither of the source you posted give numbers of fossil species. I changed the numbering to "over 100" such my new source is from 2012. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The order Scorpiones was named and created by Koch in 1837. I think this should be mentioned in the article text, and perhaps include a link to the protolog if it is available. What was his original circumscription like?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:59, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Only 25 species have venom that is deadly to humans; most of those belong to the family Buthidae…" The first cited source claims that all (not "most") of these belong to the Buthidae; the second cited source looks like it's written by students and doesn't look reliable.
Fixed, and removed the second source. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:43, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could we have some basic information on what the characteristics of each family are?
Added brief descriptions for the families in 'Taxonomy'. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:16, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the fact that the article doesn't use Stockmann & Ythier's 2010 Scorpions of the World is a major drawback, as it is considered to be one of the most comprehensive and informative scorpion books out there. I think the article would have trouble meeting FAC criteria 1c based on that alone ("it is a thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature"). I think there's also an issue with 1b ("it neglects no major facts or details"), which would become apparent if you were to look through this book. A single example: there's no mention of keeping scorpions in captivity (even though books have been written about this topic). Based on this, I would oppose promotion of this article in its current state. Esculenta (talk) 15:32, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have struck through my initial opposition, as some important sources have been included and the article has been expanded. Esculenta (talk) 19:44, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, we'll work on those things. I've added a brief section on keeping scorpions in captivity, and further details of behavior cited to Stockmann & Ythier 2010. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:23, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
pinging Esculenta. LittleJerry (talk) 12:59, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Esculenta you're not being fair here, that book has only one copy left and costs $95. We are already citing "Introduction to Scorpion Biology and Ecology" by the same author. If anything that book is more recent (2010 vs 2015) and more updated. I think you are jumping the gun here. LittleJerry (talk) 17:48, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What does price and availability of a source have to do with meeting FAC criteria? Are there no libraries where you live? The 2015 source by the same author is a single chapter in a multi-authored book, so not the same thing. Also, please cite specific page numbers when using the 2015 source (currently a range of 34 pages), to make it easier for users to verify information. Esculenta (talk) 17:58, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added page numbers for Stockmann (2015). LittleJerry (talk) 01:24, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

More comments from Esculenta: edit

  • Assuming the article in written in British English, the following words need to be audited: maneuver, center, meter, molt(ing), paralyze
It's supposed to be US English. LittleJerry (talk) 19:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the etymology section is quite short. Does it need a stand-along section, or might it be better integrated into taxonomy?
We can't put it into taxonomy since the origin of common names has nothing to do with it. LittleJerry (talk) 19:38, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the first sentence of etymology is sourced to American Heritage Dictionary (4th ed.). 2003. Retrieved 14 April 2010, which suggests that no-one checked this link (nor the link for the following citation) during the preparation of this article. It now suggests it be cited as American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. 2016.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 21:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • links: Wisconsin, Myriapoda, taxon, Thysanura, introduced, lamellae, chitin, immune system, metabolic rate, gestation, Scorpion sting, sucker, peat, folk medicine
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:38, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • why are there two years listed after Family Microcharmidae Lourenço?
The family was created, then merged, then recreated. Mainly a matter for the Family article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:03, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • what’s the rationale for using the French “et” instead of ampersand (&) when giving the authorities in the taxonomic ranks?
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:01, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • you might consider wrapping the authority names in the “small template” so that the font is slightly different and stands out better from the taxon name (e.g. compare Family Hormuridae Laurie vs Family Hormuridae Laurie)
It's possible but would prefer not. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the abbreviations sp./spp. must have periods after them
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Vaejovis janssi, are versatile and are found in every type of habitat in Baja California,” I don’t think they are in ‘’’every’’’ habitat
The source states "on Sorroco Island (California) there is only one species of scorpion, Vaejovis janssi, which can be found in all habitats; in the jungle either in trees and other vegetation, on the ground, in the sand, among the rocks, and on the seashore.". LittleJerry (talk) 21:04, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Scorpions range in size from the 9–12 mm (0.35–0.47 in) Microtityus minimus in the Buthidae,[33] to the 23 cm (9.1 in) Heterometrus swammerdami in the Scorpionidae.” must use adjectival form (use |adj=on in the convert template), or recast sentence to avoid
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:07, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”This may be a "primitive" trait.” I don’t think scare quotes are needed here
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”called "keels" or carinae on the pedipalp segments” quote marks or italics for MOS:WORDSASWORDS?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”these are useful taxonomically.” suggest “these are useful as taxonomic characters.”
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the scorpion anatomy diagram should indicate whether it’s the dorsal or ventral view. Why are some of the terms italicized?
Said dorsal and removed italics. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:41, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now I have to ask why some terms are capitalized and some aren't! Esculenta (talk) 19:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:30, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the mesosoma is called the pre-abdomen in the text, while in the diagram its just called the abdomen
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”The ventral side of somites 1 has a pair” should this be the singular “somite”?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Morphologically the pectines are a pair of limbs that function as sensory organs.” Morphology deals with shape, so would a better introductory word be “Physiologically” or “Biologically”?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”The 7th and last somite does bear appendages or any other” -> should this be “does not”?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:54, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”The parts do not grow back, leaving them unable to sting and defecate” I would imagine the latter consequence would severely reduce life span; is this the case?
Clarified. LittleJerry (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • several species are not linked, presumably because they don’t have articles yet. But redlinks are ok.
Linked several. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • it is mentioned that instars have fully-developed trichobothria, but this word is not linked nor mentioned elsewhere in the article. Soon after, it mentions the hardening of the tegument, another word not linked nor used elsewhere.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:54, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”which may not occur until it is 6 to 83 months old” is this a typo?
Nope. The source states "The period before maturity is extraordinarily long, lasting from 6 to 83 months." LittleJerry (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
My copy of this book does not say this on page 161, which is claimed by the citation. Please check. Esculenta (talk) 19:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We used the physical copy. You're using the online copy which is way off. LittleJerry (talk) 22:44, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • how many people are stung by scorpions yearly? How many die? (see doi:10.3390/healthcare8030325
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 22:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I’m surprised that there’s no link to Scorpionism; should it maybe be in a {{main}} template in the “Stings” subsection?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Fried scorpion is traditionally eaten in Shandong, China” Ok, but is it eaten anywhere else or only here?
Pretty much only there. It seems that in Thailand, a street clientele used to fried insects is now trying fried scorpion as a novelty; cited. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:56, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Stockmann and Ythier, 2010 (p. 147) also gives West Africa and Myanmar as locations where they are consumed, as well as the most edible popular species/genera. Esculenta (talk) 15:16, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 16:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • please give common names for the two species pictured in the taxonomy section
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:45, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the captivity section mentions how to minimize cannibalism of offspring, but this behaviour is not mentioned anywhere else. Esculenta (talk) 19:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Clarified. LittleJerry (talk) 22:12, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Even more comments from Esculenta: edit

I read the German (featured) version of this article and found some information that is covered there that I think should also be in ours:

  • where is the highest biodiversity of scorpions found?
The articles already states "The diversity of scorpions is greatest in subtropical areas; it decreases towards both the poles and the equator". LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Especially Mexico, added refs. Chiswick Chap (talk) 22:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in an older study (McDaniels 1968, PMID 5745746), he divided scorpions into four basic types: psammophilic, lithophilic, borrowing, and wandering. Is this categorization still useful and should it be mentioned in this article?
More recent stuff seems to classify habitat differently. "scorpions may be ground-dwelling, tree-living, rock-loving or sand-loving" is broader. LittleJerry (talk) 23:48, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in diet and feeding, it is mentioned that some scorpions “may be highly specialized” in regards to diet, although none are mentioned. Might it be worthwhile to mention one of these specialists; for example Isometroides vescus, which feeds exclusively on a few burrowing spider species.
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 23:06, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in what country (-ies) do most scorpion envenomation deaths occur?
It already states "Scorpion stings are a public health problem, particularly in Central and South America, Africa, the Middle East and India". LittleJerry (talk) 22:37, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added more detail and refs. Chiswick Chap (talk) 22:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • anything to say about social behaviour? Are scorpions mostly solitary? Do they winter together in the same shelter? Do any species form family groups that hunt together?
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 23:36, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • how long does the mating dance occur?
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 23:56, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • are there any scorpion species classified as endangered by the IUCN?
Conservation issues are generally not important for small invertebrate groups. LittleJerry (talk) 22:42, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it’s a shame that the reader will not be able to learn from this article the four Pandinus species listed in CITES due to overexploitation for the pet trade, nor the three species assessed for the IUCN Redlist (Lychas braueri CR, Isometrus deharvengi EN, Chiromachus ochropus VU). Esculenta (talk) 15:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 16:26, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It's getting quite far off-topic. Perhaps it's a 'see also' item. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 01:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the article should mention the high-elevation record holder, Orobothriurus crassimanus , found at 5500m in the Andes (Pollis, p. 125). These kinds of interesting factoids are (IMO) appropriate for an overview article like this one. Esculenta (talk) 19:51, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added. Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We can't use Polis anymore. I no longer have access to the physical copy (had to borrow it from a library hours away) and the pages for the online version are way off. LittleJerry (talk) 16:01, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You could cite Stockmann & Ytheir (2010), p. 151, which says the same. Esculenta (talk) 16:10, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 27 (Rein, Jan Ove 2000) is a website that is no longer active. Esculenta (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Website vigorous. Repaired URL. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:42, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Still more comments by Esculenta edit

  • the infobox image should include its common name, and then the over-specific location could be omitted
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:27, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ”Scorpions range in size from 9–12 mm (0.35–0.47 in) to 23 cm (9.1 in).” since a range from smallest to largest is insinuated, perhaps the upper size of the smaller species should be omitted?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:43, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the fossil images in the Evolution section are a bit dull and the captions unimaginative. Perhaps include in the caption who found them and in what year? Brontoscorpio.png might be a more interesting and informative replacement for one of them, as the size perspective shows the reader how large these creatures might have been.
This is a bit nitpicky. Who discovered it and when has zero relevance for a caption and no other FAs have this. LittleJerry (talk) 16:30, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • for the image of the stinger, I propose that File:Pandinus-imperator-5041tagged.png is a more informative image than what is currently being used; it depicts an equally impressive stinger, but has a better view of the rest of the tail, with labeled parts that can be depicted in the caption.
The image chosen highlights the stinger itself. We've covered general anatomy elsewhere. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:21, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Centruroides limpidus; where was that image taken?
Linked. Date isn't relevant for photos of extant species. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:27, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the uninformed reader is going to read the caption of the chlorotoxin image and assume that it looks like that, which it does not. It should be clarified that it is a ribbon diagram depicting the three-dimensional structure of this peptide.
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the article implies that Microtityus minimus (which should be linked) is the smallest scorpion, but another one of your sources (Earthlife) says that Typhlocactus mitchelli is even smaller
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:21, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They may live up to 25 years." Not all them, surely? Is there a specific species this advanced age refers to? (Earthlife suggests Urodacus yashenkoi)
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:43, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • earliest-known terrestrial scorpion? (maybe Palaeopisthacanthus from upper carboniferous)?
I see nothing on it. LittleJerry (talk) 18:49, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • regarding phylogeny, the Earthlife source says that “… others claim they are actually the only living relatives of a distinct class called the Merostomata” - this opinion is not mentioned in our article
The "Merostomata" is a disputed clade including the Xiphosura (horseshoe crabs) and the Eurypterida (sea scorpions). The 2019 cladogram we've used shows that the clade would include the scorpions, ticks, and spiders as well, i.e. it'd be paraphyletic and there'd be those other living relatives. I think we're better off not discussing that abstruse and now-outdated point as it doesn't help the reader any. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:25, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:31, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • regarding courtship, our article implies that courtship is always initiated by the male – is this always true? (Earthlife says female sometimes initiates)
Females doing it didn't seem common enough to mention. LittleJerry (talk) 16:31, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • clubbing is left out as one of the behaviours in the mating dance, but should be mentioned, as it occurs in almost half of observed courtship displays.
In Polis but not Stockmann. And I don't have the right page number. The behaviors mentioned in the section are highlighted the most by Stockman and appear to be the most common. LittleJerry (talk) 17:49, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • there are two type of embryonic development in scorpions (apoikogenic and katoikogenic), but this distinction is not mentioned in this article (see doi:10.1002/ar.21219 for more info)
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 17:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • no mention of the “birth basket”
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 16:37, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • how many instars do most species generally have to go through before maturity?
It already mentions the number of molts which are the instars. LittleJerry (talk) 16:46, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Earthlife suggests that females are generally larger than male, which is not mentioned in our article
More reliable sources are not clear on this. LittleJerry (talk) 16:46, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "flat-weave" is hyphenated in the article text, but not the figure caption
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:38, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • need a page number for the Erbek, Güran (1998) source
Added a location, the "Motifs" pages are not numbered. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:37, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • meed a page# for FN 33 (Huber & Bradley 2005); title case; publisher, location
Replaced. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:08, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(Note: Title Case, Publisher, Location have been fixed per item below.)
  • FN 70 (Azmilumur et al. 2017) is a really odd citation for this article: it is a primary research paper (a conference abstract, actually) from a computing and engineering conference. Isn’t there a more appropriate source that can be used to say that meerkats like to eat scorpions?
Replaced. LittleJerry (talk) 18:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in the citations, books should consistently give publishers and locations (or not)
All the books now have publisher but not location. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:18, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • journal titles/book titles need to be consistently in sentence case/title case
Title Case it is. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:07, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN 125 (Marine Review) has a dead url Esculenta (talk) 16:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Removed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:10, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Esculenta, are you finished with your review? LittleJerry (talk) 20:50, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Esculenta (talk) 23:05, 17 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Jim edit

  • Is it worth mentioning that similarly named invertebrates like the scorpion fly and scorpion wasp are not related to the true scorpions?
No, since they have "fly" and "wasp" at the end. LittleJerry (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • back, ending with a venomous sting—perhaps and ending?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • woven into kilim carpets for protection—add from their sting
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:12, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • pulmonate—not linked or explained
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems a bit underlinked, I’d link at least sea spider, horseshoe crabs, harvestmen esophagus, gonad, pharynx
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • German arachnologist Carl Ludwig Koch classified the order Scorpiones—created the order
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Five colonies of Euscorpius flavicaudis have established themselves in Sheerness... while Paruroctonus boreus lives as far north as Red Deer, Alberta, at 52°N.[28]—When did these colonisations occur?
Added. Alberta one is native. LittleJerry (talk) 18:16, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • armoured—armored in AE I think
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The 7th and last somite do not—does not,
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:02, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • In caption Bird predator: Indian roller eating Indian red scorpion—I’d lose the first two words, or rephrase as Indian roller, a scorpion predator, eating Indian red scorpion
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 18:02, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sexual cannibalism after mating has only been reported anecdotally in scorpions.—move only before anecdotally?
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:14, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • wavelengths of ultraviolet light such as that produced by a black light—black light is broad range, wavelength ranges perhaps
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only 25 species have venom that is deadly to humans—You give the impression that scorpions are either deadly or harmless, I’m pretty sure, as with snakes, that there are species with an unpleasant but non-lethal sting
Deadly means able to kill. LittleJerry (talk) 20:23, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fried scorpion is traditionally eaten in Shandong, China... They are used in Vietnam to make snake wine (scorpion wine)—Any particular species used for eating or for the wine (sound delicious)?
Chiswick Chap? LittleJerry (talk) 22:46, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
None of the sources, formal or informal, go so far as to name the species used. Very likely it is a mix of species as caught. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The answer to the last point was what I expected, I just asked in case there was a preferred species. Changed to support above Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:02, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from FemkeMilene edit

Always excited to see articles about basic topics making their way to FA: thanks for working on it.

I'll be focusing on the first paragraph in light of WP:EXPLAINLEAD. Note I'm unburdened by any topic knowledge. I'll be underlining those words that I think should be avoided or if that's not possible explained, and give an attempt at an easier an first paragraph I would understand.

  • Scorpions are predatory arachnids of the order Scorpiones. They have eight legs and are easily recognized by the pair of grasping pedipalps and the narrow, segmented tail, often carried in a characteristic forward curve over the back and ending with a venomous sting. Scorpions range in size from 9–12 mm (0.35–0.47 in) in Microtityus minimus to 23 cm (9.1 in) in Heterometrus swammerdami. The evolutionary history of scorpions goes back to the Silurian period 435 million years ago.
  • Scorpions are predators of the order Scorpiones. They have eight legs and are easily recognized by the pair of grasping pincers and the narrow, segmented tail, often carried in a characteristic forward curve over the back and ending with a venomous sting. Scorpions range in size from 9–12 mm (0.35–0.47 in) to 23 cm (9.1 in) . The evolutionary history of scorpions goes back 435 million years.

The rest of the lead is understandable, except the word spermatophore. Femke Nijsse (talk) 22:05, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed some but we can't just label them "predators". It is too broad a term. The average reader is familiar with "arachnid". LittleJerry (talk) 22:45, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also wikilinked. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:45, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Hog Farm edit

I'll be taking a look at this. From a quick glance, this looks to be in good shape. Hog Farm Bacon 06:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Book lung is linked at the second usage, move the link to the first. It's then overlinked in the mesosoma section
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Myriapoda
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Scorpions are found on all major land masses except Antarctica." - How are you defining land masses? Because they don't seem to be in Greenland, and Greenland could be considered a major land mass due to its size.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ready for the biology section. I'll pick this back up later, looking good so far. Hog Farm Bacon 16:42, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "while others make slower, more circular strike which can" - Strikes, not strike?
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:47, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Leiurus quinquestriatus can whip its tail at 130 cm (51 in)" - I am incredibly confused as to what this is trying to say. Maybe it's a comprehension issue, but I'm not sure what this is suppose to mean. 130cm seems rather large for any measurement involving a scorpion. By any chance, would you mean 130 degrees?
Well spotted, it's the speed of a defensive strike measured in cm/s. Edited. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "squirt venom in a narrow jet as far as 1 meter to warn off potential predators" - Give the meter to feet conversion, maybe? I'm not sure that we can assume that everyone knows that. Especially since this is the type of topic that schoolchildren are likely to use this article for assignments.
Converted. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:45, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Besides HMS Scorpion, there is also USS Scorpion. Maybe use a more generalized reference to state that it is a common ship name, without pointing out one navy over another?
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:19, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's all from me. Good work on this one. Hog Farm Bacon 05:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SandyGeorgia (support) edit

  • You can install this script to keep your dashes in order (I ran that to fix a few dashes here).
Noted.
  • You can install this script to keep your dates in order (I ran that and several citations were not in the date format indicated at the top of the article).
Noted.
  • There are quite a few duplicate links, but some may be justifiable; you can install this script to check them.
Fixed; I've left a couple of intentional overlinks in the cladograms for clarity. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:15, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Table of Contents (WIAFA 2b) looks good, there is no MOS:SANDWICH, image captions have correct punctuation, and I did not spot any MOS:LQ issues.
Thank you.
Mmm, perhaps, but packing has the odd effect of making the landscape-format images much larger than the portrait-format ones. We've arranged this gallery symmetrically and the images are all in proportion. Guess packing works best with a group of images all of the same shape really. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are some very wide page ranges on the sources, which could make it hard to verify text. What scheme have you used in deciding when to include a specific page number, and when to go for the broader range? Some of them are more than 10 pages ... Also, check your ps and pps throughout.
Fixed ps and pps and broad page ranges for books. I can't really do anything about journal articles. Though the quote Arata Takeda is on the first page. LittleJerry (talk) 23:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Mythology, religion, and folklore"; I am terrified of the things to this day (and I took dozens out of my house in Venezuela) because of John Steinbeck's The Pearl (novel), which left an indelible impresison. Is that book worthy of a mention in "Mythology, religion, literature and folklore"? Unsure, just asking ...
Why not. Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:09, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are 12 uses of the word also; please doublecheck that they aren't redundant (see User:Tony1 writing excercises)-- they usually are, or can be replaced with something better.
Reduced to four. LittleJerry (talk) 00:51, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Now to start reading:

  • Should vertebrates and invertebrates be linked on their first occurrence?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • it is unclear to me why "the" here instead of "a" ... and the narrow, segmented tail ... presumbably that relates back to the taxonomy? So if that is the case, "the narrow, segmented tail" that defines the ... ???
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:16, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ending with a venomous sting ... but that links to an article about "being stung" ... rather than a piece of the critter. And in that article, the thing the tail ends with is called a stinger, not a sting, which refers to the action. If the body part is called a sting instead of a stinger, something needs fixing at the linked article. Later in the article, it is called a stinger ... Since classical times, the scorpion with its powerful stinger has been used to provide a name for weapons.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 23:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This statement is begging for some time-related context ... Their taxonomy is being revised in the light of genomic studies. ... 21st-century genomic studies? genomic studies facilitated by the advent of X in year Y ??? Something so that date relevance is established ...
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 23:05, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The oldest found to date is ... the oldest found as of date ... MOS:CURRENT
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Too many clauses, too many thoughts, I ran out of breath reading it, find a way to split? The Scorpiones are a clade of pulmonate Arachnida, those that have book lungs, within the Chelicerata, a subphylum of Arthropoda that contains sea spiders and horseshoe crabs, alongside terrestrial animals without book lungs such as ticks and harvestmen.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link phylogeny ? Link cladogram? (Please recognize that this is all jargon to a non-biology-type.)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please provide as of dates on IUCN text (when we are checking this article ten years from now as in WP:URFA/2020, that's the kind of thing we need to watch for updates) ... A few species are on the IUCN Red List; Lychas braueri is classed as critically endangered, Isometrus deharvengi as endangered and Chiromachus ochropus as vulnerable.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure we can "between" and "to" ... where the temperature remains between 11 to 40 °C (52 to 104 °F) ... where the temperature remains between 11 and 40 °C (52 to 104 °F) ... I suspect the convert template chokes on that so another way to do this needs to be found (manual convert if necessary)
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yikes ... give me some help here as a layreader ... a scorpion can tolerate high osmotic ion concentrations in its hemolymph.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, now I know how I imported a Venezuelan scorpion to Italy, and found it in a moving box months later ... Some are able to survive 6 to 12 months of starvation ... thank you, thought I was crazy ... should that be six to twelve per WP:MOSNUM ?
See next. LittleJerry (talk) 02:16, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:MOSNUM consistency with a list of numbers ... pick one ... digits or spelled out ... from three to over 100.
Fixed to digits. LittleJerry (talk) 00:37, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • is there a relationship to color ? ... but only 25 species have venom that is deadly to humans ... living in Venezuela, I was told (folklore?) that the black ones were deadly.
Didn't see any mention of that. LittleJerry (talk) 00:37, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's all, these are mostly nitpicks and I don't see anything preventing me from supporting once addressed (or not as needed). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks! Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:15, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I corrected a few typos that were introduced while addressing my comments, returned one instance of additonally (sic) to also, and restored one correct application of WP:MOSNUM (digits vs. spelled out).[3] If you should come across something in sources (I find plenty specific to Venezuela, but have not looked in general), it seems that infants and toddlers are more likely to suffer severe consequences of a sting, and that might be mentioned. It was certainly my fear, when I lived in an area where scorpions were common, one never took off their shoes unless in bed, and shoes were always checked before you put your foot in. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:17, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Rose, Ealdgyth or Gog the Mild, anything more needed? LittleJerry (talk) 23:14, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tks for the ping, I think we're good to go. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:32, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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