Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Raya and the Last Dragon/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 17 June 2021 [1].
Raya and the Last Dragon edit
@Wingwatchers: The first step in ensuring an article passes FA is to initiate the nomination. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:25, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
- Ok, to begin with, the article met all FA criteria. Wingwatchers (talk) 01:43, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Oppose - MOS:PLOT suggests plot summary should be between 400-700 words, this one is too long at over 800. Entire soundtrack track listing is uncited, as well as a few bits in the voice cast section. A number of sources look to be unreliable or only marginally reliable, like the D23 Expo YouTube link, Digital Mafia Talkies, DisInsider, dvdreleasedates.com, whattowatch, and maybe a few others. Several references are not formatted correctly, including missing publishers and other issues. I don't think this one is quite ready; it currently fails WP:FACR #1c, 2c, and 4, and possibly others (I'm not familiar enough with this film to judge comprehensiveness first. I'd recommend sending this through WP:Peer review and probably the WP:GAN process before renominating. Hog Farm Talk 03:23, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
- I will complete it. No worries. Wingwatchers (talk) 00:18, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Hog Farm: I found another article that also crosses the border of 800 words. Wingwatchers (talk) 03:48, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- The other article is about twice as long as Raya, so the plot summary is only comparatively about half the percentage of the article. I did some very rough math, and the plot summary here appears to be in the 27-30% of the article range (may not be exact, did some rough rounding). Hog Farm Talk 03:57, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- The citation problems is obvious, but can you elaborate on why it fails WP:FACR? Wingwatchers (talk) 03:50, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- The main issues are with claims are verifiable against high-quality reliable sources from FACR #1c (several some of the references from the version I checked don't seem to be high-quality RS) and where required by criterion 1c, consistently formatted inline citations using footnotes from FACR #2c. Essentially, you'll need to make sure that each reference includes the publisher, that the various things are done in the same way (for instance, "Joanna Robinson" vs "Robinson, Joanna", that the author is listed for all sources cited (for instance, "Raya and the Last Dragon: Creating Disney's First Southeast Asian-Centered Movie" has an author, but it is not included in the citation), and things like including the date for all references that have a publishing or "last updated" date. FA can be a very tough process, so I think working up through GA and then maybe a peer review will be a better path. That way the article can improve in small steps, rather than have to make one big leap. I had multiple articles I'd brought to GA before bringing one to FA. FAC can be tough at first, because it has really high standards. Hog Farm Talk 03:57, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- No problems, I will get it done. Wingwatchers (talk) 00:15, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
- Done. @Hog Farm:. Wingwatchers (talk) 17:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- No problems, I will get it done. Wingwatchers (talk) 00:15, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
- The main issues are with claims are verifiable against high-quality reliable sources from FACR #1c (several some of the references from the version I checked don't seem to be high-quality RS) and where required by criterion 1c, consistently formatted inline citations using footnotes from FACR #2c. Essentially, you'll need to make sure that each reference includes the publisher, that the various things are done in the same way (for instance, "Joanna Robinson" vs "Robinson, Joanna", that the author is listed for all sources cited (for instance, "Raya and the Last Dragon: Creating Disney's First Southeast Asian-Centered Movie" has an author, but it is not included in the citation), and things like including the date for all references that have a publishing or "last updated" date. FA can be a very tough process, so I think working up through GA and then maybe a peer review will be a better path. That way the article can improve in small steps, rather than have to make one big leap. I had multiple articles I'd brought to GA before bringing one to FA. FAC can be tough at first, because it has really high standards. Hog Farm Talk 03:57, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Images Sole image seems OK to me use and licence wise. ALT text is necessary though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:33, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Jo-Jo Eumerus:, completed. Wingwatchers (talk) 17:27, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- Seems OK to me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
- Can some images of the cast be added? Heartfox (talk) 00:32, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
- Added. @Heartfox:. Wingwatchers (talk) 02:23, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
- In my opinion, the images seem like a bit of an overkill now. Maybe reduce them to just the primary cast (e.g. just Kelly Marie Tran and Awkwafina)? Pamzeis (talk) 11:36, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Pamzeis: Corrected. Wingwatchers (talk) 00:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
HF (second run) edit
- Lead
- "The 59th film produced by the studio" - not in body, not cited anywhere
- "It has grossed $132 million worldwid" - need to indicate an as of date, as this figure may continue to change
- Infobox
- Kiel Murray is not cited
- Dean Wellins is not cited
- Rob Dressel is not cited
- Adolph Luskinsky is not cited
- Fabienne Rawley is not cited
- Shannon Stein is not cited
- Not the nominator but I think the film credits are able to be used here (and above) as a WP:PRIMARY source.
- March 3 release date in Indonesia is not found elsewhere and is not cited.
- Running time is not cited
- Plot summary
- Again, this is too long. Not so much in raw word count, but the plot summary is about 33% of the article's length, which suggests either A) the plot summary is too detailed B) the rest of the article isn't detailed enough or C) both
- Development
- Normally, in movie FAs, it's expected that some detail about how the movie was actually produced should be included, in this case, this would be information about what types of animation were used.
- "The recasting was due to creative shifts in the character and story" - any further detail that can be said here?
- Tran was selected for her "lightness and buoyancy, but also badassery. [23] - missing the closing parenthesis, you should also directly attribute inline direct quotes.
- she was well aware that Disney Animation "had already turned her down and removed another actor from the project" - not convinced that the direct quote is necessary here, this should probably be paraphrased
- "The score was released on February 26, 2021." - Source is actually from before February 26, so it doesn't confirm this
- Music
- No need to quote KZ Tandingan so extensively, quotes from here are almost half of the prose in this section
- "All lyrics are written by James Newton Howard, except where noted" - none are noted to not be written by Howard, so you can just drop the "except where noted"
- Release
- "Raya and the Last Dragon was available for purchase through Premier Access until May 4, 2021 (March 19 in Latin America) and is available for free to all subscribers as of April 23 in Latin America, and as of June 4 in other countries" - source is a press release from February, so it doesn't support either of those as of dates.
- "with DVD, Blu-ray, and Ultra HD Blu-ray released on May 18, 2021" - source if from May 15, so it only really proves that this was planned, you'll need a source after May 18 to confirm that it actually was released on that date
- Reception
- "Saying so, the film's performance improved on the next weeks, therefore matching and eventually surpassing Tom & Jerry's box office numbers" - remove "saying so" as not really encyclopedic tone.
- I don't think the demographics statistics for viewership is really relevant, unless you can find a source discussing why the stats are significant
- Critical response could probably be fleshed out a bit more; it's rather short for a fairly significant internet-age movie
- Sources
- Tunefind is user-generated content and is not reliable.
Sorry, but I'm back at oppose - this just isn't quite ready for FAC. WP:GAN would be a better step for this. It's also going to be really hard to write an FA about a movie only months after the film came out; a lot of the significant critical commentary about the film probably just hasn't been written yet. Currently, this looks like it fails WP:FACR #1b through likely lacking information about development and critical response, it fails #1c through the uncited text in the infobox and lead, the lead contains information not found in the body which fails #2a, and the fact that about 33% of the non-lead length is the plot summary fails #4. I'm sorry, but this isn't close enough to the FA criteria right now, although GA would be a realistic goal. Withdrawal to work on points outside the fac may be the best alternative. Hog Farm Talk 03:20, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
- And Again, I will get you to strike oppose again. Wingwatchers (talk) 03:47, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Wingwatchers, I'm sure you will in time but I concur with HF's recommendation that the improvements should take place outside the FAC process, plus that GAN and, particularly, Peer Review should be the stepping stones to a subsequent nom here. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:15, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 10:16, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.