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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/DJ AM/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Sarastro1 via FACBot (talk) 23:33, 6 November 2017 [1].

DJ AM edit

Nominator(s): Freikorp (talk) 09:17, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a DJ who had a short but very interesting and tragic life. Article is GA and has recently received a peer review and copyedit. Freikorp (talk) 09:17, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Sarastro1: I'm going on vacation and going to have very limited and quite possible no internet between November 9 and 20; if you can't promote this now and in the event that someone does oppose before November 20 can you please leave this open till I get back? Incidentally we have four reviews/supports, an image check, a source check, and no major issues found with anything. How am I doing? If you think the review is lacking in any one area please let me know. Thanks. Freikorp (talk) 01:48, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I’ll be looking at this on my next run through, if Ian doesn’t go through first. I’ll certainly leave it open if anyone opposes. Sarastro1 (talk) 07:43, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Images appear to be appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:25, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47 edit

  • In this sentence (During four years in his early twenties he focused solely on drug use and deejaying.), there should be a comma after “twenties”.
  • In this sentence (In 2006 he accepted a $1 million), add a comma after “2006”.
  • In this phrase (After watching Herbie Hancock perform "Rockit" ), I would specify that “Rockit” was a song recorded by Herbie Hancock to avoid a potential misreading of this being a cover or something. I think that the following short descriptive phrase in front of “Rockit” (his 1983 single) would be beneficial.
  • Could you possibly clarify the following phrase (for his treatment of younger patients) by adding more context? How did he treat the younger patients?
  • The source only says "he was later indicted and dismissed for excessive abuse of young enrollees". I haven't been able to find anybody else making this allegation. I'd be happy to remove it if it's too vague. Freikorp (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Makes sense; thank you for the clarification. I think that it is fine as it stands then. Aoba47 (talk) 04:17, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the first mention of Alcoholics Anonymous, I would spell out the acronym and put it in parenthesis next to it to make the meaning clear.
  • In this phrase (help other addicts, sponsoring them and taking them to meetings), I would remove the comma and add “by” as I think that would make the sentence stronger.
  • In this phrase (impressed with Goldstein's performance there), I do not think the “there” is necessary.
  • I would add the year in which “Butterfly” was released.
  • In this phrase (in 2003 he weighed), add a comma after “2003”.
  • In the phrase (The crash killed both crew members and the other two passengers), did we know the identities of the other two passengers?
  • In this phrase (Following the crash, the show's producer Cheryl Sirulnick, said), I do not believe the comma after “Sirulnick” is necessary.
  • In this phrase (Shortly thereafter Goldstein leaves the building,), add a comma after “thereafter”.
  • Remove the link to “cocaine” in the “Death” section as it was already linked in a previous section.
  • In the “Filmography” table, I would change “2005–2007” to “2005, 2007” as he appeared in only one episode in 2005 and one in 2007. The original phrasing gives off the impression that he consistently appeared from 2005 to 2007.
  • In the same table, do you think that you should also clarify he was the host of Gone Too Far?
  • Do you think information on DJ AM”s collaboration with Samantha Ronson for Challah and Challah Back should be mentioned in the body of the article? Right now, she is only listed in associated acts, put in the discography, and a brief note on her appearance at his funeral.
  • I can't find any RS sources that comment on the album, let alone high quality ones. The albums were added to the article by someone else. I can't find any reference to them on discogs, allmusic or YouTube. If it wasn't for several non-RS sources (like this one [2]) commenting on them, I'd be liable to think they didn't exist. Freikorp (talk) 23:10, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is very odd indeed. I will leave this up to more experienced users to look into. I have no issues with the albums being included in the "Discography" section as evidence of their release is available (although, not through the best sources in the world). Ideally, it would great to have more information on this, but I understand the issues with it. It is fine then as it stands. Thank you for the clarification. Aoba47 (talk) 04:17, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • You mentioned that he scratched on an album for Madonna, though it is not included in the “Discography” section.
  • Good find. Someone else actually brought that up on the article's talk page several years ago. None of her albums from the relative time-frame list him in the credtis ([3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]), guess I forgot to remove the mention though. I'm removing it now. Freikorp (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for the clarification. It is a shame that he never really worked with Madonna. Aoba47 (talk) 04:17, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you think that Downtown Calling should be mentioned in the body of the article? It is currently only brought up in the “Filmography” section.

Great work with this article. Once my comments are addressed, I will support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 15:27, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for you comments Aoba47. I've made all the relevant changes, with the exception of three things that I have replied to above. Let me know if there are any further concerns. Freikorp (talk) 23:10, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything. I support this for promotion. If possible, I would greatly appreciate any feedback on my current FAC? Either way, good luck with your nomination. This was a very fascinating read, and to be completely honest, I have never heard of this person prior to taking this up for review. Aoba47 (talk) 04:17, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ceranthor edit

  • "During four years in his early twenties," - This is phrased awkwardly. Might be better to say from age 2X-2Y...
  • "His drug problems became worse after leaving the center. During four years in his early twenties, he focused solely on drug use and deejaying." - I think these two sentences can be combined.
  • "Goldstein became sober and went on to sponsor other addicts through Alcoholics Anonymous." - Went on should be replaced with "and later sponsored". Went on is clunky and doesn't say much.
  • "After forming a relationship with Nicole Richie in 2003, his career skyrocketed" - Were they dating? Unclear from the ambiguous term "relationship"
  • "Goldstein appeared as himself in several television series, contributed mixes and appeared as a playable character in the video game DJ Hero, and filmed a cameo appearance for Iron Man 2. " - Contributed mixes "to"
  • "Goldstein witnessed his father openly taking cocaine and marijuana throughout his childhood.[2]" - Don't think taking is the right verb here, maybe using?
  • "His father died the following year.[4][6]" - Unclear which father; his biological father or his "dad"?
  • "In 1997, he attempted suicide; with the gun in his mouth, it jammed as he pulled the trigger.[4][6]" - Should just be "the gun jammed in his mouth as he pulled the trigger"
  • "A visiting promoter, impressed with Goldstein's performance, offered him his first legitimate deejaying job working at the Hollywood club The Dragonfly.[10]" - Avoid original research words like "legitimate"
  • "The surgery was effective, and he lost over 100 lb (45 kg) within a year.[4] " - more than, not over
  • "an unheard of amount for a DJ at the time.[2]" - Unheard of sounds a little bit like slang to me
  • "and later felt the need to call his sponsor. " - Might help to briefly explain what a sponsor is in addition to linking it.

Ultimately, a short and highly interesting article. The prose needs some fine-tuning before it's ready, but here are some initial comments. ceranthor 20:25, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for your comment Ceranthor. I've reworded the article to address everything you've listed above. Let me know if there are any further concerns. :) Freikorp (talk) 23:04, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Goldstein began deejaying in clubs in Los Angeles, and joined the band Crazy Town in 1999." - Get rid of the comma and make it "and joined" or keep the comma and make it ", and he joined".
  • "and was also charging upwards of $10,000" - same note as above
  • "Goldstein was also one half of TRV$DJAM along with Travis Barker." - The way this is currently written; this idea seems like an afterthought. Integrate this and the following sentence more smoothly into the paragraph
  • "The DJ AM Memorial Fund, an organization designed to help people struggling with drug addiction, was launched in his memory" - Who launched it? Mention that here briefly
  • "and was obese by the age of 10.[4" - and he became obese
  • "He attended the Quaker school Friends' Central.[5] " - clarify which years of school if possible?
  • When he was 14, Herbert was incarcerated for committing bank fraud - I'd just say his father
  • "disclosed that Hebert was not his biological father," - Herbert
  • "He also became involved with deejaying:" - it's unclear whether this was his first experience actually deejaying; was he deejaying before this point?
  • "Goldstein would go on to be a sponsor for several people.[2]" - became a sponsor, not go on to be
  • "and was asked to join the rap/rock group Crazy Town in 1999." - and he was asked
  • " to escape the drug-related dysfunction that was plaguing it.[12]" - Very clunky; better as "to escape the drug-related dysfunction plaguing the group", and tweak the first half of the sentence
  • "Goldstein dated singer Mandy Moore for two months in 2007, and remained close friends with her after separating.[21]" - get rid of the comma after 2007
  • " The crash killed both crew members and the other two passengers, a security guard and Barker's assistant, and critically injured Goldstein and Barker.[24]" - I'd get rid of and and change to "assistant, critically injuring Goldstein..."
  • "Goldstein suffered burns on his hands and parts of his head.[26] Moore flew to be by his side in hospital.[27] He was released on September 26, 2008.[28]" - very choppy sentence structure here

More comments after this. ceranthor 11:49, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've made an attempt to address each of these new concerns Ceranthor. :) Freikorp (talk) 12:14, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "illegal after-hours club" - What does this mean?

Otherwise, I think the prose has been fine-tuned enough. Support on prose. ceranthor 15:48, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. :) Freikorp (talk) 19:48, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from FrB.TG edit

  • Goldstein was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He became obsessed with deejaying as a child after watching Herbie Hancock perform his 1983 single "Rockit" - I would join these two sentences; sth like, Born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, he became..
  • His drug problems became worse after leaving the center; Goldstein spent several years in his early twenties addicted to crack cocaine - just a suggestion, I think it would work better as sth like, After leaving the center, his drug problems became worse and he was addicted to crack cocaine for several years in his early twenties.
  • Hmm, I've reworded it though still retained the semicolon. I think it works better with it. Freikorp (talk) 00:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • and was asked to join the band Crazy Town in 1999 - instead of saying "was asked to" I would simply write joined the band.
  • contributed mixes to - do we mean contributed to mixes here?
  • Hmmm, I don't think that would be accurate to say. As in, he contributed the whole mix, he didn't just contribute towards the mix Freikorp (talk) 00:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see. My bad. – FrB.TG (talk) 06:44, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • contributed mixes to and appeared as a playable character in the video game DJ Hero, and filmed a - I don't think you need the first "and".
  • I'm seeing a bit of a problem if I remove it. "contributed mixes to appeared as a playable character"? Freikorp (talk) 00:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I meant replace it with a comma. :-) FrB.TG (talk) 06:08, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Down to the end of the lead. More soon. – FrB.TG (talk) 13:11, 24 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments so far FrB.TG. I've made replies. Freikorp (talk) 00:20, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

  • When he was 14, his father was incarcerated - I assume it was his stepfather, although I think it would be more helpful if you are specific (perhaps mention his first name).
  • that Hebert, the man he thought was his father, was not biologically so - I think it is safe to say that the reader is aware of Hebert's role in his life. Would be much more simple as "that Hebert was not his biological father

Career

  • Us Weekly editor Janice Min said: "He's an amazing DJ, but there are a lot of amazing DJs. The difference is that there's only one who dated Nicole. It put him on the map." - perhaps it would be worth paraphrasing this quote.
  • He was an avid sneakerhead, owning over 1,000 pairs - more than.
  • His obsession led to him being offered a cameo as himself purchasing a pair in the 2006 TV series Entourage episode "What About Bob?". - I am not a fan of the word 'obsession' here. In the previous sentence, you say he was an 'avid' (as in interested) collector of sneakers, but in the next you describe it as an obsession, which is stronger, more intense than 'avid'. Perhaps simply say, "This led to" or replace obsession with another word?
  • He played private events - played at? – FrB.TG (talk) 18:00, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Final year

  • appearing as himself deejaying Tony Stark's birthday party - seems worth linking Tony Stark and also mentioning who played the character.
  • Goldstein was involved with Activision's DJ Hero video game, contributing original mixes - contributing original mixes to, per the lede.
  • Goldstein was the host of Gone Too Far, a drug intervention reality show for MTV - WP:OVERLINKING here.
  • He had approached MTV in mid 2008, pitching the idea of - not a fan of pitch, perhaps discuss? Also, using infinitive form would read better here (the pitching part), I think.

Relapse

  • Goldstein said that while he had been sober for nine years, every day he had to remind himself that he was still a drug addict, saying - don't like the placement of every day here. Perhaps place it after "himself"?

That's it. I have made quite a few edits that you might wanna check. Pls let me know if I have messed up anything. – FrB.TG (talk) 18:30, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi again FrB.TG. I'm very happy with your changes. I've attempted to address all of your listed points above. :) Freikorp (talk) 01:27, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for addressing these. I would like comments from other reviewers addressed before I add my final judgement of the article. In the meanwhile, I would appreciate some comments on the FAC of Scarlett Johansson. – FrB.TG (talk) 08:02, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support on prose. – FrB.TG (talk) 09:00, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review edit

  • Ref 2: What is the nature of the source "Manifest"?
  • Ref 13: Who was the broadcaster? You provide this information in similar refs 14, 17, 19.
  • Ref 23: Please check spelling of "Drumer" (Drummer?)
  • Ref 54: I think the proper source title is "Grammy Awards" rather than the informal name "The Grammys". And it should not be italicized.
  • Refs 58, 60 and 61: Can you give the record label as publisher information?
  • Ref 60: I dont understand what the word "feat" is doing in the middle of the reference.
It is to state that the song "Forever" is by Wolfgang Gartner featuring (feat) Will.i.am. I have a query of my own here: why is Forever in italics when it should be in quotation marks? – FrB.TG (talk) 08:02, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've changed "feat" to "featuring" for clarification. Italics is the default styling for the "|title" parameter in Template:Cite av media. Freikorp (talk) 11:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You can get rid of it by using {{noitalics}}. – FrB.TG (talk) 12:27, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know that, cheers. Done. Freikorp (talk) 12:34, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Subject to these minor points, the sources appear to be appropriate, reliable and well organised. Brianboulton (talk) 21:31, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Brianboulton. It's nice to see you here. Thanks for your review. I've tried to address everything. Freikorp (talk) 11:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Vanamonde93 edit

  • " that he was not his biological son" I'd use "Goldstein" at the first of these, to avoid confusion
  • Can we provide a link to deejaying at its first use in the body?
  • "The phrase "fell in" is a bit colloquial for me
  • Changed to "associated". Happy to hear alternate suggestions. Freikorp (talk) 11:45, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "also telling him that he was homosexual and dying from HIV/AIDS." Again, the "he" is ambiguous
  • It would be quite interesting to learn how and why he managed to become sober so suddenly.
  • "Mandy Moore flew to be by his side in hospital." Shouldn't this just be "Moore"?
Thanks so much for your comments Vanamonde93. Freikorp (talk) 11:45, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm a little dissatisfied with the order of the "relapse" section. We have folks talking about what caused his relapse, then there's material about things leading up to it, then stuff about the consequences of his relapse: but I'm not seeing where we explicitly discuss the relapse itself.
  • I'd like to see citations for the discography and filmography. I know folks have varying standards for that sort of thing, but coming from articles with lots of unsourced bullshit, I think if we can source it we should.
  • All the filmography appearances are now referenced in the prose. I've also found references for appearances and production. Finding sources for scratching and remixes is proving much more difficult. This information may only be able to be sourced by tracking down a physical copy and reading the linear notes, and possibly not even then. Freikorp (talk) 22:23, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The photos are all much of a muchness. It would be nice to have one of him deejaying, though I can understand if such is not available.
  • I've replaced one of old photos with an image of him performing. There were four images of him with an appropriate license on Flickr, but only one was in focus, so that's the one I added. Freikorp (talk) 22:23, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Turns out, that image didn't have the appropriate license after all, so I've reverted back to the old image. Well I can definitely confirm there are no free images of him on Flickr then. Freikorp (talk) 23:15, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Generally solid article. I'm wondering if there's available information about a few aspects of his life not mentioned here: his relationships other than the one mentioned, and/or any information on personal views (political or otherwise). It's quite possible these are not known, but thought I'd ask.
  • I've expanded slightly on his relationship with Moore and have added several sources regarding the last women he dated. In my search for sources in expanding this article I can't say I've come across anything that mentions his personal, political or religious views, unfortunately. Freikorp (talk) 11:58, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose. I haven't reviewed the sources in detail, and I will admit I am not a subject expert, but I believe the prose meets the standards for FAC. Vanamonde (talk) 06:09, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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