Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/American logistics in the Western Allied invasion of Germany/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by FrB.TG via FACBot (talk) 16 October 2023 [1].
American logistics in the Western Allied invasion of Germany edit
This is the final article in the series about logistics in the campaigns in north west Europe in 1944-1945. This one covers the American logistics in the final advance into Germany in 1945. It covers a longer period of time and a larger body of troops than previous articles. In writing the article, I was able to take into account reviewer comments on previous articles in the series from the time of article creation. The article follows operations closely, and incorporates recent scholarship. It uses a broad range of sources. Interest in World War II is waning as it recedes further into history, and the Central Europe campaign has never attracted its fair share of attention. The article has nice maps and some striking images. From a logistical point of view, the US Army had incorporated the lessons of the earlier campaigns and operated with a heightened degree of efficiency. In contrast to the campaigns of 1944, logistical issues had little impact on operations, partly because the armies operated with a greater awareness of them. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:15, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
- Image review
- No licensing issues found.
- Minor sandwiching between the first two images in the "Central Europe campaign#Railways" and "Central Europe campaign#Motor transport" sections
(t · c) buidhe 01:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Other comments by Buidhe
- At over 12,000 words the article is really a behemoth and could easily be considered to fail the length criterion because of the large amount of detail, which might belong better in sub-articles. I am not really seeing a convenient split point, so I understand that reducing the word count would not be straightforward or easy.
- There are some sections that seem too long for good readability. I would consider splitting "Rhineland", and "Central Europe campaign#Motor transport"
(t · c) buidhe 01:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- I split Central Europe campaign#Motor transport and reduced the size of Rhineland by moving a paragraph. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Support Comments by JennyOz
edit
Placeholder for now JennyOz (talk) 03:26, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
Hi Hawkeye, logistics is rather fascinating! Who knew?...
- I love the opening image. "Don't go anywhere Adolf, we're coming for you."
- move short des to top
lede
- American logistics in the Western Allied Invasion of Germany supported - article title doesn't have cap on "Invasion"?
- replacement ordnance were dispatched - rest of article spells despatched
- The river was crossed and bridged, - bridged then crossed? or did they have to build bridges from other side?
Background
- the port of Cherbourg - in France
- when the Operation Cobra broke through - "the" intentional?
- and the Moselle in the south - river in France?
- returned to his next objective - sounds strange, returned to his next planned objective?
Organization
- forces in Southern France had - no cap on southern? (Southern France)
- One of the more opaque parts of the MOS. "Doubts frequently arise when referring to regions, such as eastern Spain and Southern California. If one is consistently capitalized in reliable sources (as with North Korea, Southern California or Western Europe), then the direction word in it is capitalized. Otherwise it is not, as with eastern Spain or southwest Poland. If you are not sure whether a region has attained proper-name status, assume it has not." (MOS:CAPS) It appears that the capitalised form used to be the most common, but no more. De-capped. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- The base sections were dived into districts. - divided
- Similarly, when the it in turn was absorbed - remove the
Situation in January 1945
- Major depot areas were established in September 1944 - had been established? (November 1944 is mentioned in prev sentence)
- from nearly 3,500,000 US gallons (13,000,000 L) gallons to - remove second "gallons"
Equipment loss and replacement
- establish as series of defenses - a?
- between the Ardennes and Liege - Liège
- by the middle of January,[42] The supply - full stop
- More arrived the last two weeks - in or over?
- By V-E Day there were - add date in brackets?
Transportation
- Shipping mail on these trains - how so? Was mail guarded?
Balancing the troop basis
- could be maintained in the field. [55] - remove space
- reckoned on a division slice - add link
- Four more American divisions were added the 6th Army Group - added to
- operations in January and February, along - new year so add 1945
- antiaircraft battalions - v anti-aircraft battalions
Replacing casualties
- meant that in the ETO divisions had to remain - remove in?
- On 26 December, SHAEF put out an appeal for volunteers - where? in US?
- In the ETO. Added. ZI was the responsibility of the Army Ground Forces. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, but what is ZI? JennyOz (talk) 08:09, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- The Zone of the Interior. Military talk for the United States. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:48, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, but what is ZI? JennyOz (talk) 08:09, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- In the ETO. Added. ZI was the responsibility of the Army Ground Forces. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- decided to divert 19,000 infantry replacements scheduled for shipment to Europe in May to the Pacific - long sentence, perhaps a comma after "replacements" and another after "Europe in May"
- The Army remained racially segregated - better link Racial segregation in the United States Armed Forces? (or Military history of African Americans#World War II or Racism against African Americans in the U.S. military#World War II)
Planning and preparations for the Rhine crossing
- careful planning was required to move the such heavy and - remove "the"
- There were 26 major bridges over the Rhine, and the air staff reckoned that at least twenty would - numeral, word ie 26/twenty
- Already been through the difference between a number and a numeral this week at Talk:0.999...#Numbers and numerals. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
Rhineland
- switched to Ninth Army, which - the Ninth
- By the mid-February it had - remove the
- On the advice of his engineers, Simpson postponed - introduce and link William Hood Simpson
- introduced and linked
- transferred into jerry cans - link
First Army
- On 7 March 1945 - move year 1945 up to 2 March in second sentence
- On 9 March, Bradley told Hodges - introduce and link Courtney Hodges?
Ninth Army
- The two assault division were soon across - divisions
- two lights for the LCVPs, three for the LCMs, four for DD tanks. [116] - and four. Remove space before ref
- which controlled elements of the elements of the 341st - remove "of the elements"
- Two miles of connecting track - convert?
- detachments of ADSEC's 1053d - this is only use of d (ie not rd per 83rd, 163rd, 1553rd), intentional?
Third Army
- near Mainz in Germany on 4 April - remove in Germany, is given in prev sentence
- At 22:00 22 March, - on 22 March?
- It was not until 08:30 that they - next day? 23 March? (if so, remove "23 March" from next sentence?)
- In the meantime, units the 89th Infantry Division - units of
- began crossing there at 01:00 on 28 March, - full stop
- Patton opened it on 14 April, and it was named after President Roosevelt, who had died two days before. - this was second bridge named after Roosevelt (per above Ninth army one "The bridge was opened to traffic at 14:30 on 18 April and named the Roosevelt bridge in honor of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who had died the week before") Add too/also?
Seventh Army
- crossed the Rhine in the upstream from Worms - "in the" intentional?
- In the meantime, the 85th Engineer Heavy Ponton Battalion built a 1,047 feet (319 m) heavy ponton bridge, making the treadway bridge necessary. - unnecessary? and adj=on?
Central Europe campaign
- Ninth Armies linked up at Lippstadt on 1 April. - not strictly necessary but add 1945 for new section?
Railways
- bridge at Duisberg was authorized - link?
- Part of the problem was the Third Army's representatives attempted to expedite the delivery of the most urgently required supplies. - just 'attempt'?
- Not sure what is meant here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Well, might be just me but, "Part of the problem was the Third Army's representatives attempted to expedite the delivery of the most urgently required supplies" doesn't seem grammatically right. Either
- 'Part of the problem was that the Third Army's representatives attempted to expedite the delivery of the most urgently required supplies' or,
- 'Part of the problem was the Third Army's representatives attempt
edto expedite the delivery of the most urgently required supplies' ? JennyOz (talk) 08:09, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- Not sure what is meant here. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Military Railway Service - link Military Railway Service (United States)?
- The 1 and 2nd - 1st?
Motor transport
- its headquarters, the 6955th Headquarters and Headquarters Company, - link Headquarters and headquarters company (United States)?
- CONAD established "GI Joe Dinners" at - can only see one ref which does have dinners but definitely not diners in other refs?
- caption: Repairing jerricans - spelt jerry cans in prose
- nearly 30,000,000 US gallons (110,000,000 L) gallons of bulk POL - rep gallons
- They delivered 122,684 long tons (124,653 t) tons of supplies - rep tons
Pipelines
- was extended to Sarralbe - link
- and the connected to the major system on 22 April - then connected
- The first 4-inch pipeline of the southern system - convert
Prisoners of war
- surrendered after this date were classified as a disarmed enemy forces (DEFs) instead - remove a?
Outcome
- terms of tanks, vehicles and equipment - other vehicles (tanks are vehicles)?
Footnotes
- was acquitted and returned to the United States - if acquitted, why sent home?
References
- Dysart/Dunham - alpha order
- Ref 54 archive doesn't work for me
- Matloff, Maurice - authorlink
- Greenfield, Kent Roberts - editorlink
- Parker, Theodore W. Jr. - authorlink Theodore W. Parker
- DeBakey, Michael E. - authorlink Michael DeBakey
Table American casualties in the ETO
- American casualties in the ETO [70] - space before ref intentional?
- April 1945 figures nonbattle 46,131 - should be 46, 151
- provide grand totals at base?
Images
- No alts?
- caption: A convoy of M26 Pershing tanks moves through a German town - sentence full stop?
- caption: The troop transport USS West Point returns to New York with US soldiers - sentence full stop?
- caption: Advance through Germany – 5–18 April 1945 - comma after Germany instead of dash?
Footnotes
- c. Ruppenthal also served in the campaign, but as the Third Army historical officer. - why "but"? Aren't military historians important people?
Misc consistency
- ADESEC (x2) v ADSEC - different things? is ADESEC advance engineer section or typo?
- US Army (x6) v U.S. Army (x2)
- U.S. Navy (x1) v US Navy (x2)
- autumn (x1) v fall (x2)
That's it for me for now. JennyOz (talk) 08:04, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I think you caught a couple no one else could find. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Jenny, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:47, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
MyCatIsAChonk edit
I added a number of commas just to divide dates and clarify any confusion, hope you don't mind- if you oppose any, go right ahead and remove them.
- Wl port of Antwerp first time under 'Situation in January 1945'
- Well spotted. I did not realise that port of Antwerp had its own article. Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- holdings of Shermans reached the number authorized by the War Department, 7,779 - IMO, a colon would be better after 'War Department'
- By 8 May railheads had been established at Stendal and Magdeburg, Germany, for the Ninth Army, Leipzig, Germany, for the First Army, Regensburg, Germany, for the Third Army, and Stuttgart, Germany, for the Seventh Army - semicolons should be used to divide the armies and their cities; "By 8 May railheads had been established at Stendal and Magdeburg, Germany, for the Ninth Army; Leipzig, Germany, for the First Army;..." etc
- required that the US Army feed and care for POWS. - "S" in "POWS" should be lowercase
- as fellow historian Roland Ruppenthal noted - fellow historian? Is this an actual title? If not, I think "fellow" can just be replace with "the"
- I meant "fellow official historian". Alas, unlike Forrest Pogue, Martin Blumenson, Hugh M. Cole and Charles B. MacDonald, Roland Ruppenthal has no Wikipedia article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Hawkeye7: Goodness, this article has such a thorough and massive prose section, but I have very few comments; extremely good job on writing this, it's very impressive! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:27, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for your review! And for correcting a few US English spellings. Greatly appreciated. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Support MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 01:18, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
Support from Gog the Mlld edit
- As elsewhere, could you ping me once JennyOz has wrapped up, or is approaching that point. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:55, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- @Gog the Mild: You are up to bat. now. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:54, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. I am going to be away for a few days and probably won't get started until I get back. If I haven't set to by the end of Monday feel free to give me another nudge. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:58, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- Hawkeye7 I'm sorry also not to have been able to respond yet; please poke my talk page again after Gog is done? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. I am going to be away for a few days and probably won't get started until I get back. If I haven't set to by the end of Monday feel free to give me another nudge. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:58, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- "The American forces were mainly supplied over the beaches and through the port of Cherbourg in France, which was opened on 19 July." It would be helpful if we were told over what period this was the case. If only via an initial 'During this campaign ...'
- "and allowed it to build up 4.5 days ...' supply of rations". Maybe 'and allowed it to build up a reserve of 4.5 days' supply of rations'?
- "largely as a result of cold injury such as trench foot and frostbite." To my eye this would read better with 'injuries'.
- I think an explanation of "limited service men" is needed somewhere. Perhaps a footnote?
- "he had asked the air forces if they could destroy all the bridges." Picky, but you haven't actually said if this happened.
- "Once the Rhine had been crossed, the American armies advanced rapidly into Germany." This seems to suggest that they hadn't already advanced into Germany.
- "Plans called for the repair of ..." Any information on how much, if any, of this happened?
- Note c, should it start with an upper-case I?
And that's it from me. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:32, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
Source review edit
Sources appear reliable and (apart from some very minor things I tweaked) suitably formatted. N.B. No spotchecks carried out. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 17:58, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. FrB.TG (talk) 19:24, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.