User talk:Peregrine Fisher/Archive 15

Fine

I have no objection to this. It would certainly make the articles easier to read. The core material would still need to be out of universe, but I think it would make for good middle ground. Asgardian (talk) 06:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool. I've been discussing this with Emperor and BOZ a bit (not that we all agree). It's my opinion that the articles with condensed, out-of-universe, plot summaries are actually pretty close to GA. But, I think at GA they would want the refs moved down for readability. If you finish doing it to an article, drop me a note, I might try and take it the rest of the way to GA to see if my reasoning is accurate or not. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 06:29, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of which. ;) Replied to your concerns about Spidey on the comics talk page... BOZ (talk) 21:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

FYI, Mattisse is apparently going to pick up the Spidey GA review. BOZ (talk) 22:35, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Everybody loves Spidey. Should be interesting. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Did some work, need a break. :) BOZ (talk) 02:38, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Hope to get some real work done today! BOZ (talk) 13:28, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Doing what I can with it, even though it may not be much. :) BOZ (talk) 03:39, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Impossible Man has been reworked in the PH format, but as promised I've referenced out of article rather than in. It does make for more palatable reading, and should probably be the norm so that the out of universe material does not seem too dry. Asgardian (talk) 00:19, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

That looks a lot better. Good job. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Horror comics

Thanks! I was thinking the same about page numbers but decided to slap it up for GA while continuing the work. It will likely be a few days or even weeks before it's reviewed and I can place the individual page numbers within the next day. At least it's on the board where reviewers can see and consider it. Thanks again! ItsLassieTime (talk) 09:09, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. It takes so long I sometimes put them up early too. Nice article, though. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) [[(contribs) 17:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The article's title when I became involved was simply "Horror comics" but that necessitates taking a world view which I'm not prepared to undertake. I thought limiting the article to the US during the genre's heyday would be more easily managed. The Senate hearings are the genre's dramatic highpoint and I thought ending the article there would make a satisfying and informative read. I'd like to see the article gain GA status first and then incorporate it into a larger article or expand it some time in the future. What do you think? At some point, a short "Legacy" section existed which followed horror comics after the 1954 hearings to the present. It was chiefly a list of titles, titles, titles without much commentary. The section (though well written) was unsourced and I removed it in order to limit the article and pursue the GA. ItsLassieTime (talk) 08:43, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Basically, there are two issues. One, I don't want to hinder you in your quest for a horror comics GA. Two, I do think that The Tomb of Dracula and others of its ilk are important. You can either make the title say 1970s horror comics are not included (like you did), or you can cover the whole genre (not easy). I think you can either cover the whole period, or we need to come up with a better name. If you want to stick to a pre-Silver Age view of horror comics, then we need to have an article, at Horror Comics that's a bare-bones treatements of the subject in general, and a post 1954 article (to be named later).

We will have an article but it can't be done overnight. And I don't think the article I've written should be failed becuase I haven't dealt with post-1954 horror comics. That will come in time. I can't understand why the artilce hasn't passed, I check it several times a time looking for typos, etc. The article has a NPOV, RC, no OR, etc. Someone has taken it for review but I haven't seen anything a review on TALK page yet mentioning specifics. ItsLassieTime (talk) 16:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

You are running into the same problem I have with Silver Age of Comics, in that people think it's extra encyclopedic, and they have extra high standards. With SAoC, I've decided to entertain suggestions to a point, but go no further. I'll either get a GA easily, get a GA with a ton of extra work, or maybe just forgo GA for now. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 08:58, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Is someone reviewing Silver Age? Last time I looked there's no indication on the nominations page. ItsLassieTime (talk) 16:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey! Don't worry about a GA for Silver Age of Comics. I've taken a look at it and I can't understand what is holding up a Pass. Remember, the reviewer's job is to pass or fail based upon the good article criteria, and that criteria doesn't include content. You can't be failed for NOT including this or that piece of information a reviewer may think vital. If you have reliable sources, well written prose, neutrality, stability, acceptable use of images, you can pass. That's what I'm hoping for in Horror comics in the United States, 1947-1954. Pass it for what it is, as it is; don't fail it because I've left out a piece of info some think vital or I haven't taken up horror comics of the Silver Age. That will come in time, just pass the article and let's move on. It's not about content or what sort of content belongs in the article - that's FA stuff; GA is about what is set forth in the GA criteria = grammar and spelling, no OR, NPOV, images, etc. and especially RS.

I'd like to see Horror comics in the United States, 1947-1954 pass GA before creating anything else. Once it's passed the article is open for future additions, retooling, retitling, etc. I'm not going to stand over it after it's passed GA review and shoo editors away and play the revert game. I'm not up to working on a world view of horror comics at the moment. I put in a lot of work on this one and just want to see it pass. It would be quite feasible to create a "Horror comics in Britain" to my way of thinking rather than taking on the whole world for such a vast topic. That interests me -- doing it piecemeal. I don't feel so swamped, I don't feel there's a mountain of "world view" material to be mastered. A bare bones article for Horror comics in the US or around the world is a good idea. Actually I'm working backwards on this one - I've created a spinoff article first and planned to do the parent article in the future. Putting the cart before the horse. ItsLassieTime (talk) 16:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

You've convinced me. I like the idea of working backwards, becuase when you get to the top level article you've already done the research. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:08, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

No worries!

Don't worry. It seems fitting that I quote The Simpsons here: "Everyone makes mistakes. That's why they put erasers on pencils." :) —97198 (talk) 08:19, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I jumped to conclusions based on a faulty memory. Keep up the good work. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 08:22, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Yo

Just a heads up, I sent you an email. :) EVula // talk // ☯ // 17:06, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject College football February 2009 Newsletter

The February 2009 issue of the College football WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Spidey

I've give you as close to an exact answer as I can come up with, and then I'm heading off to bed. ;) I think Mattisse meant that the Creation section was unclear, and I think I did a good job of reorganizing that section to clear things up. David Fuchs seems to be referring to something from the past as his reason to not edit the article any further, so only he can elaborate on that.

I wouldn't say that it's currently close to GA, although it may be within reach. Powers, Enemies, and Other media could use more sourcing; Supporting characters has none (which is something I intended to start tonight, but got distracted and failed). Getting refs in there would move us a long way.

Some sections need expansion and or detailing, particularly the Cultural impact (need some critical response if we can find), and less so the Publication history post-creation. I'm not sure exactly what we need, and how, but hopefully as the review progresses we can nail that down. Even if we don't make it to GA, we are getting closer, and there is always next time and we'll have a much better idea of what exactly needs fixing.

Anywhere you can pitch in, even in small ways, brings us closer. I'll be back tomorrow. :) BOZ (talk) 04:44, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I can feel myself getting sucked in. Shit. LOL. I'll look into it soon. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Dude, no problem - two that you nominated just got picked up, so no pressure here. Do little bits here and there, whatever you can, as I've been doing - I've already seen what a hard worker you can be, so get Silver Age finished before putting any real work in here. :) BOZ (talk) 13:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Of course, since it looks like Cirt isn't in any hurry to get to Expedition and Silver Age, Spidey could use whatever help you're able to give. :) BOZ (talk) 00:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm still trying to get through White Plume Mountain right now. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Look again, dude. ;) BOZ (talk) 00:20, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I see it now. My internet has been acting up. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:21, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Probably just need the Fonz to come along and fist-bump it. :) Great work, again, by the way. BOZ (talk) 00:24, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL I'm looking for some spidey refs right now. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:25, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool, I'll "bug" you no more. ;) I don't think it's too far, but there are some critical things that need work before it can move on. Anything you need my help with (or Emperor, or Hiding), just ask. :) Check out the main Wikipedia page, by the way. ;) BOZ (talk) 00:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Nice work, thanks! :) I think that's just the sort of thing it needed. Maybe needs more, but that's a good push in the right direction. Matisse also pointed out that the whole footnote setup needs fixing, and Drilnoth is going to help me work with that over the weekend. BOZ (talk) 20:57, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I made some comments on the GA1 page. It's going to be a lot or work. (sheepishly) Plus the refs I just added don't conform to the ones there. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll at the very least get all the references to the comics fixed, if the format you mentioned is the right one. Might have to do it over the weekend, but I don't mind the grunt work here. :) BOZ (talk) 21:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. I think if you use your browsers copy, paste, and find features well, you can probably automate a lot of it. The publisher is always the same, anyways. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:11, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool; I'll use that citation format you found, and we have to change the format later, at least we've got the data collected. :) Don't know if I'll have time to start in the next few hours, but if I can I'll try! BOZ (talk) 21:14, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I think I fixed all of the comic citations. I'm about to be gone for pretty much all of V-Day, so I'll be back later to see what else there is to work on with the footnotes. BOZ (talk) 15:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Success! Great work. :) BOZ (talk) 20:13, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Next project, if you're interested, is Fantastic Four. :) I've been posting on the article talk page as I work. BOZ (talk) 01:47, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'll add it to my watchlist. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 08:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Anything you can do for it would be cool. :) BOZ (talk) 16:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

White Plume Mountain

Hi Peregrine Fisher, I am reviewing your article, White Plume Mountain, for GA and have left comments at Talk:White Plume Mountain/GA1. I confess I am disappointed as this article does not seem close to your usual quality. Hopefully, you will fix that! Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 21:40, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

So you're a D & D fan? I played years ago, before all these incomprehensible updates. Loved the S series (although S1 is a tad unfair when the demi-lich is almost impossible to kill) and of course the G series. I downloaded all the greats and printed them off, and keep them in folders for reading when the mood suits me. As much as I enjoy some of the modern games (eg. God of War), I still miss the old style which depended on imagination. Oh well, nothing is forever. Regards Asgardian (talk) 00:50, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I haven't played in years, but I love getting module articles to GA. It makes me feel that they won't get deleted. I (finally) closely read your vesion of Red Hulk's PH, and I do like a lot about it. I think it's close to GA, but I'm in the middle of a move from house to house, so I'm not going to go crazy with my WP edits right now. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 08:05, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

FYI

FYI, I have listed an article you recently passed as GA at Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Ruth Martin (Lassie)/1. This is not a reflection on your hard work but stems from my reaction to the article. I am hoping that through the GAR process the article can be improved. (Or perhaps I am wrong in my evaluation, in which case the GAR will provide feedback according!) Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 17:06, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

That's fine. It's interesting to get feedback on an article I reviewed. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

re: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks GAN

Okay sounds good. No worries, Cirt (talk) 21:35, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay will take a look soon. Cirt (talk) 01:29, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks a lot. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 01:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

GA Review on Klaus Ebner - all comments have been addressed

Hi Peregrine. Thank you for your comments on Ebner's article. Irina Walter and me, we have addressed all of your comments, and Yllosubmarine/María did a lingistic proofreading and came up with some further suggestions that I incorporated. In my opinion, the article has its final form now. Please have a look - we documented on the GA Review page and of course you will find all changes via the history - and decide about the GA nominee. Many thanks again. --Helmut Bihy (talk) 22:13, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Please re-check

Hello Peregrine. Your new comments have been addressed now. Please re-check the article on Klaus Ebner. Thank you for your endeavors. --Helmut Bihy (talk) 20:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Dragonlance

I think something went goofy on this edit? BOZ (talk) 20:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I think I've fixed it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

No problem - I didn't want to mess with it and make it worse. :) BOZ (talk) 21:07, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Article's looking great! :) I'd say it's about 80% ready; we could nom at any time and fix the rest as we go. The lead probably needs some work, and I'll get to that later today after putting in some work to get Spider-Man: One More Day‎ ready for its own GA nom. BOZ (talk) 18:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. I think I can do some more today, but I may have to do something in real life. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:02, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Fixed up the lead. :) It's not perfect, but it does do a better job of summarizing the article now. BOZ (talk) 00:10, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Consensus Discussion over Jim Steranko photo

Hi. Could you offer your opinion on the consensus discussion here? Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 05:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Fantastic Four

Hey there. :) If you're finding yourself with extra time while waiting for reviews to start or get moving again, maybe you could work your magic and take a crack at getting this section off the ground? Emperor posted some links at the talk page but I haven't yet had a look at them (and probably won't now, given the late hour). BOZ (talk) 05:27, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Or, even better, now that a couple have been quick-passed. ;) I have a little bit of time at the moment, so I'll see if I can organize myself enough to get something started. BOZ (talk) 18:00, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, that gave the section a really great start! You're really on a roll now. :) BOZ (talk) 20:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. How close do you think the article is? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, 70-80%? Still needs citations in several sections, but in terms of completeness the article seems just fine. BOZ (talk) 20:59, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

OK, I did a little more work on this one. What else can we do? BOZ (talk) 20:29, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth

As you know I just passed this as GA. I also wrote some comments [1] Where would you like this article on the GA page? Under "Sports and recreation:Board and card games" or "Literature:Works"? or someplace else? maclean 07:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I placed in at Sports and recreation:Board and card games with the other similar articles. I can move it if you wish. maclean 07:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

That's cool. It's kind of an ambiguous item. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:32, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Merge discussion at Talk:Tom Tucker (Family Guy)

I've opened a merge discussion at the above-mentioned location. Please consider participating if you are interested. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 20:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

re: Sorry to stalk you, but I've got an OTRS thing going on

 Done. Cirt (talk) 09:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool. Thank you. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:31, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

No worries. Cirt (talk) 23:55, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Jessica Lee Rose image

Hi, I reverted your edit since the image is in fact licensed under CCbySA2.5, which is a license we allow, by the studio: [2] and therefore is a free image. --Terrillja _talk 12:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Cool. Sorry about that, I didn't realize they released those images. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Philip DeFranco image

Yes thank you for explaining why it was removed i would be grateful if you could help me get an image for Phil. Kyle1278 (talk) 20:17, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the help.Kyle1278 (talk) 20:31, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Foris Vineyards Winery

A tag has been placed on Foris Vineyards Winery requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a company or corporation, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for companies and corporations.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Vistro (talk) 06:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Speedy/Afd rampage

Copied from WP:ARS

User Vistro is doing a bunch of speedy and AfDing, with about a 50% accuracy, I would say. Anyone know how to deal with this? If not, could someone else take a look at his contributions and help remove tags? I did went through his latest 10 or so articles, but there may be a lot more. Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I copy this here because I don't know if it is a appropriate posting on WP:ARS. But I maybe wrong, so I would not remove the posting on WP:ARS, unless someone else complains.

Step 1: I am sure with an editor like this you can go through his edits and find very quickly and easily all of the Speedy deletion tags which he improperly added, then removed.

User:Aboutmovies removed the above Speedy deletion on your article Foris Vineyards Winery:

"rm speedy,may not ultimaetly pass WP:CORP, but three news sources are enough to prevent A7"

Copy and paste the:

1. reverter's name, (example: User:Aboutmovies)

2. reason for reversion, (example: "rm speedy,may not ultimaetly pass WP:CORP, but three news sources are enough to prevent A7")

3. edit diff of when the speedy deletion tag was removed. (Example: [3])

Step 2: Warn this editor sternly on his talk page, with edit differences of all of his speedy deletion tags being deleted as improper. Posting on his talk page not only warns him to stop, it is a very effective way for other editors who he will probably anger later, that this user has had the same repeated problem with other editors.

Step 3: If he doesn't stop, contact all of the editors you found who removed his speedy deletion tags, and ask them for help.

Step 4: Then if he still doesn't stop, you can post a complaint on Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts, which is an informal Request for Comment, which can result in community booting.

Alternative 2: Alternatively, but not as effective, you can bring up the editors behavior on WP:ANI. The problem with this approach is that many editors who like to delete other editors contributions actively comment on WP:ANI, and it is vital that the first couple of responses are sympathetic to you, not sympathetic to him, or the chances of anything being done are low. If the editor is as active as you are on wikipedia, he can effectively negate any of your complaints.

In the majority of cases, WP:ANI is more of a theraputic page where editors vent their grievences, than a place where admins intervene to stop bad behavior, unless it is a veteran editor versus a newer editor, in which case the veteran editors friends complain too, and the newer editor is punished. In otherwords, the chance of anything happening on WP:ANI in your case is low.

Alternative 3: Alternatively, study the edit history of User:TTN, particularly the arbitration cases and the WP:ANIs. This edit history is a case history of how to stop disruptive, out of control deletionism. In TTN's case, he would attempt to merge, then when that failed, he would put the article up for deletion. He was topic banned for 6 months. I hope this helps.

On a related note, I am deeply troubled that you supported Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction)‎, as it is being used as a tool to delete hundreds of editors contributions like yours. I would strongly encourage you to change your !vote to oppose, for the reasons myself and others have outlined on Wikipedia talk:Notability (fiction)‎, Michael's impassioned comments atWikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#the_darkening_future.... are probably the best argument against this guideline which will purge thousands of articles from wikipedia, and result in more potentially excellent editors leaving wikipedia.

Let me know on my talk page if the above suggestions helped, and if you have any questions. I am not watching your page. Ikip (talk) 12:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed response. I supported FICT because is was more lenient than NOTE, and I think we need some sort of (recent) precedent for that. I argued against notability for a couple of years, and it just didn't work. Keep up your good work, though. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:15, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Silver Age of Comic Books

The article Silver Age of Comic Books you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . It hasn't failed because it's basically a good article, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Silver Age of Comic Books for things needed to be addressed. Cirt (talk) 09:11, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Pride & Joy (comics)

Thank you for taking the time to fix the copy edit issues; I never knew there were so many. -- A ^talk/_contribs 02:06, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

AfMerge?

I totally agree! I bet you can get a few guys on the notability guidelines involved. There was a strong push arising from there to reform AFD to accommodate merges and such as a desired outcome, but there was strong resistance. You might meet the same resistance trying to get such a thing passed, but you might get a lot more support with a proposal for a separate process? BOZ (talk) 12:44, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Cool! Wikipedia:Articles for merge. BOZ (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Should be interesting. I imagine people will have strong opinions. I think it would be usefule for D&D stuff. Although the issue there is more man hours than AfD type fights, lately. Other stuff, we'll see. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 22:43, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it will have a better shot than Articles for Discussion did. :) Rather than transforming a dearly loved process, we create a new separate but equal process? BOZ (talk) 23:43, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, there's that whole silence equals consent thing. If it's used a few times successfully, it will be hard to get rid of. Asking permission almost never works (as you can see with the FICT boondoggle, flagged revs, etc.), but asking forgiveness works pretty well. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 23:46, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

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Talk:Ocean's Three and a Half

Do you think this RfC can be closed? Cirt (talk) 15:53, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

..for helping to break the gridlock at Independent Party of Oregon. I was getting frustrated, and less able to see a clear path forward. I'm impressed and grateful for your clear thinking and diplomacy! -Pete (talk) 19:04, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

No prob. We may get a GA out of them if they keep it up. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:06, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

You should come to WikiWednesday tonight -- it'll be a light crowd, would be a good chance to meet you in person. http://pdx.wiki.org -Pete (talk) 19:11, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

My car is out of order. Sounds like a lot of fun, though. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:13, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

rulk

I didn't i changed it back to what is said originally but in bold this time —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pearcey03 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk:1985 Rajneeshee assassination plot

There are some comments for you at the RFC. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 21:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced changes by Off2riorob

Would appreciate your input regarding disruptive behavior by Off2riorob (talk · contribs) at 1985 Rajneeshee assassination plot - the account appears to be a WP:SPA, and he is making POV-pushing changes to the article that are not backed up to any sources. He has yet to introduce any sources backing up his POV claims, or present them on the talk page. Cirt (talk) 18:04, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Would you agree that this comment by Off2riorob (talk · contribs) is extremely inappropriate, and bordering on WP:NPA? I have asked him to refactor. Cirt (talk) 18:09, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

off2riorob.

hi peregrine. I have addded a pov template for this article . you saw yesterday the big story to change ..hit squad ... so this article is imo written from a pov point of view... perhaps you could help me or tell me the best way to just balance it a bit.. in the article its the constant weighted attitude.. so .. what would be the best way to go for example ...when ...its like ... in the article it states that the conspiritors fled the country .. but where is the evidence for that in the article?.. they were not wanted and they left ...they just left ,,,and there is a big difference between leaving and fleeing.... what way is the best for me to balance this ...I have asked him where is the evidence for this but of course he doesn't reply (Off2riorob (talk) 19:50, 14 March 2009 (UTC))

The only way to change the article at this point, since it's completely referenced, is to find other references. Wikipedia has a neutral point of view policy that says if two reliable sources disagree, we include both of them. A common misconception is that we remove POV statements, but actually we list all POVs. I recommmend using google news and google books to search for reliable sources. Wikipedia has rules about what sources are acceptable, and in this articles case, the best bets will be books and newspaper articles. You will find people treat your edits with a lot more respect when you are summarizing what a reliable source says, and including an inline citation for it. I find the reftools gadget the easiest way to correctly format sources (which isn't easy at all for the inexperienced). A description of it can be found at User:Mr.Z-man/refToolbar. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:58, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

1. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias... from the good article page ..there is no way this article represents an unbiased position.

ok then if its completely referenced please show me where it states the stalking quote! nowhere does it say they stalked him ..thats a personal slant to achieve his pov. and why can I not add that it was a small group of sannyasinns ... why would I need a fact to add that when only a handfull of people were conspiritors.(Off2riorob (talk) 20:04, 14 March 2009 (UTC))

When you're watching someone at their office, home and car with the itent of eventually killing them, the word stalk seems appropriate. McKenna, Michael (February 2, 2006). "Mercy for expat in US kill plot". The Australian: p. 5. uses the word "stalking". Maybe another word would be better, but by now, its beside the point. You should tone down your comments if you want to change words like "stalk" to "scouted" or "followed" or whatever. I know Cirt from around the wiki, and he's very reasonable. You're attitude has kinda made me and others disregard your statements, at this point. To much wikidrama. I recommend taking a few days off from this article. Work on some other articles for a bit, get a feel for it, and if you want come back and in a very calm manner state what you think can be done to make the article better, do so. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:19, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

well thanks for your comments .. I will go and source some alternative cites... and I will get back to the article later.(Off2riorob (talk) 21:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC))

Sounds good. Hopefully you can improve the article. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:26, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

sorry just one more thing .. when these book qoutes like this one ...^ Carter, Lewis F.; Ernest Q. Campbell, contributor (1990). Charisma and Control in Rajneeshpuram. Cambridge University Press. pp. Pages 202-257. ISBN 0521385547. how can I find it to read? (Off2riorob (talk) 21:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC))

Sometims google books has them, and sometimes you have to go to the library or buy them. In this case, google books has a limited preview. See here. Be aware that google books will lock you out after looking at a certain number of pages. This is so people still have to get the physical book if they want to read the whole thing. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:39, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Farscape season 2 episode 15.jpg)

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Red Hulk

I'll let Asgardian explain the bulk of his edits himself, but I'd like to chime to agree with him on one point, the use of the word "Recent" as the title of a section, which is one of the things he changed. Terms like "recently" are frowned upon by WP:DATE because they're vague and date quickly. It is preferred that either dates or the phrase "as of" is used instead. Nightscream (talk) 19:09, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed on that as well. Psst, if you want to get back into D&D GA's, we've also started talking about that again. :) BOZ (talk) 22:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Working on Drow (Dungeons & Dragons) when I have the time, a little bit here, a little bit there. BOZ (talk) 03:09, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I've added it to my watchlist. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:36, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Chase Meridian merge

Hello, there is a proposal to merge an article you recently discussed here. Ryan4314 (talk) 22:40, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Descent into the Depths of the Earth

I have added the requested plot summary to Descent into the Depths of the Earth. :) A lot of what's in the lead could probably be moved into the reception section, and we'd have a halfway decent article. BOZ (talk) 01:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Red Hulk

Try this: have a really close look at how the two versions are written. Consider grammar and style, how formal or colloquial and what is fact and opinion. Is it suited to Wikipedia or a fan site? Also have a look at the other small fixes before reverting. Many thanks. Asgardian (talk) 03:36, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Red Hulk message

So I've heard through the grapvine that not much longer would you be mine that you're working on getting comic book articles to GA quality. That's great! Keep up the great work, and if you need any help, feel free to ask me. :) One of my pipe dreams has always been to get the Henry Pym article to GA or FA status, but I don't have the time to research and find reliable sources. Have a great day! CarpetCrawler (talk) 05:39, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

New GUI?

Hi Peregrine—I noticed you mentioned a new GUI slated to be introduced next year. I'd not heard about this; can you link me to anything about it?

On a side note, I do not believe your stated problems with date autoformatting could possibly be resolved by a new GUI, which would, I presume, affect only the appearance of the skin and a few other surface mechanisms. Date autoformatting is a complicated little beast! Tony (talk) 13:48, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Peregrine- I also am interested in what you specifically were referring to. Some templates deliver value, but at a significant cost as you correctly stated in your post. The number of keystrokes needed in the case of some of the more involved templates is a barrier. Hopefully you were referring to something that is more than previous editing extensions that have trouble with markup in complex articles. -J JMesserly (talk) 16:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-01-03/News and notes. It's the facelift story. They're going to try and hide templates and other stuff from the user. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:55, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

They may succeed in better concealing the markup from the readers, but the markup would still have to be keyed in, by regular editors and visitors who are able to make improvements. This is the problem for the proposed Son of Autoformatting, apart from the fact that it has not been tested and can't perform basic functions such as ranges. Tony (talk) 17:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Tech stuff is obviously hard to predict. In preferences, there's a way to tell you how old a comment on a talk page is that seems to work well and require no editor work. Maybe it could format dates based on your ISP's country. I don't know, I'm not super following the whole date vote thing. Here's an article that might give a hint at what the new UI might do. As far as my comment about markup and new users, personally I think the community can add templates just fine (almost too well), but I worry about new users and their decline. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:31, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

(undent) Not much to go on from the posting, but it is funded and they have a project manager so probably something will happen. To indulge in some modest speculation, reducing the complexity of doing some templates like ref/{{Citation}} would not be hard. For example, your edit window shows the footnote in wysiwyg form, with colors representing text generated by templates. User clicks on the foot mark and a form is presented with the various fields. User changes or adds the values- no sweat. It even can handle nested values- eg an infobox that uses a coord would show the coordinate as colored text (assuming inline), and the user could popup the coord form to change or add values to that. I am sure you may have seen this sort of markup UI before. As a retired software development manager I can assure you this sort of thing is really is not that hard to implement. There are some difficult cases, but as for the autoformat syntax I saw in the poll, it would be trivial. I'm not sure that it is entirely satisfactory for all interests. Some have pointed out the excessive number of keystrokes required for some templates. Well, such a GUI would allow conciseness to go up, but not necessarily efficiency. Depending on how they implement this, there could be a time lag in putting up the edit form- especially if it is server based rather than a javascript thing run locally. So there's a possible time lag, but in terms of usability, it would be a great leap forward in allowing more folks to be contributors. -J JMesserly (talk) 23:37, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Dave Arneson

Notice all the drama? :) I commented on the D&D WP talk page. BOZ (talk) 22:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Castiel

Cool. Thanks for all your help. However, how would you suggest merging those sections? Ophois (talk) 06:43, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Referencing stats

Hi, You might remember a few months ago I provided you with some statistics on the number of articles with(out) references from June 2008, but I wasn't able to produce more recent statistics as my code was not set up to work on the normal (xml) database dumps. However I have since been able to come up with an alternative method, and have just started looking at the March 2009 database dump. According to this, 64% of all articles (excluding redirects and obvious disambig pages) have zero <ref></ref> tags. This compares to 72% from the June 2008 dump, so things are improving! Hopefully I'll be able to do some more detailed processing (e.g. breakdown by classes) over the Easter break. I know User:Nn123645 has been working on this for you; I'll drop a note on their talk page in case my code is of interest. Dr pda (talk) 04:08, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Very cool! I'll try to watch for more detailed breakdowns, that would be interesting to see. -Pete (talk) 04:27, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Awesome work. This is exactly the kind of info we need to see how/if we're really improving the cyclopedia. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:50, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Also, that breakdown you did by class before was really cool. If you could do it again that would be great, and could you provide me a link or summary to those stats again. I can't remember where I saw them. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It was at WP:BOTREQ, specifically here. The results from last June were "the average number of citations per paragraph was 2.07 for FA, 2.06 for GA, 0.87 for A class, 0.51 for B, 0.26 for Start, 0.14 for Stub and 0.15 for Unassessed articles. This was out of a total of 2,251,862 articles (disambig pages and obvious lists excluded); 1,625,072 (72%) had no <ref></ref>s". I'll let you know the new results when I have them. Dr pda (talk) 08:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It would be helpful if you were to put the results (both old and new) on a user subpage; that way, I could add a link from the Editor's index, and it would also be easier to link to from any future discussions. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 14:57, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Statistics are now available at User:Dr pda/Article referencing statistics. I also found a couple of old database dumps on my computer so I was able to calculate the total percentage without references for Jan 2008 and May 2007 as well. Enjoy! Dr pda (talk) 03:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, super awsome. Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Very useful to know. We need to be careful though - that doesn't mean all these artices are unsourced - they could have references at the end. In line citation is encouraged, not required, and in some cases doesnt' make sense! AndrewRT(Talk) 19:30, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

True. Dr pda mentions that on his page. Since it's measuring the same thing, its good for measuring the trend, but not perfect for knowing the exact number of referenced articles. Some of the growth is probably refs being converted to the new inline way, but I still think it's probably pretty accurate. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:44, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

The Secret Mitchell

Please read WP:NOTE, WP:PLOT and WP:RS in order to aid your argument on the AFD for this article. Thanks, Dalejenkins | 19:09, 10 April 2009 (UTC).

How does this pass WP:NOTE? You need to elaborate before your argument can be considered. Dalejenkins | 19:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Refs = NOTE. Let the closing admin judge my remarks, please. Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

No they do not - as WP:NOTE and WP:RS proves. Dalejenkins | 20:33, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Please quote relevant sentneces. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:35, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Whoa, cool

good find!! -Pete (talk) 23:40, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

I think there were more of them at the same site, too. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:09, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Against the Giants

Review has begun; I'll help when I can, but got a lot going on right now. :) BOZ (talk) 15:15, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Good deal. I'll see what I can do about getting to those magazines; might take awhile for me, though. Got too much on my plate at the moment. BOZ (talk) 17:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I was finally able to do the work on AtG that I would have liked to do while the GAN was ongoing! Hopefully I was able to get my hands on WD, but I probably won't be able to check until tomorrow. BOZ (talk) 04:42, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. Nice work on AtG. If you get WD, you might think of getting the one for Descent into the Depths of the Earth too. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:30, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Indeed - that one has potential, if I rework it to be more like AtG. BOZ (talk) 17:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I was finally able to get it to work, and I have addressed the reviewer's concerns. :) Time to move on... BOZ (talk) 18:03, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Your question at Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches

Hi. :) Since that seems a little off-topic on the overall subject of the dispatch—though certainly well within the purpose of the dispatch!—I thought it might be better to answer you here. Conversation over there seems quite meta at the moment. :)

I have to deal with revision quite a lot in addressing copyright matters, and I agree that revising a single sentence is more difficult than a larger passage. I find it very helpful to turn a sentence upside down, since creative elements of text include structure as well as language. If you try to follow the same basic subject/verb construction, it's hard. Also, using apt phrases and original thought of an author without naming him is a problem that is easily remedied by attribution in the text as well as citation. This passage seems to contain opinion, rather than straightforward fact. I don't know how widespread this belief is. If it is widespread, in-text naming of source may not be necessary. For example, "A pivotal change in the development of the superhero genre came in the early 1960s with the introduction of such titles as The Amazing Spider-Man, The Incredible Hulk, and X-Men, whose characters were far less self-assured than the paragons of heroism that preceded them.(couple of refs here)." Even better if the additional refs supporting that view offer additional or different examples of titles from which you might choose. If this really is that author's view alone, but he is respectable enough for its inclusion, you would want to name him, "Journalist James Fleming advanced the view that the heroes of the 1960s, featured in comings like The Amazing Spider-Man, The Incredible Hulk, and X-Men, changed the public perception of heroism, their low self-assurance in contrast to the "virtually infallible and all-powerful superheroes" of the past.)" Not that I'd say this the only way to handle this material, mind. But this is the sort of approach I would take.

If you want to talk about it further, I've got your talkpage on my watchlist. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:56, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment. Definitely good food for thought. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 14:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Could be better food for thought if not for the comics→comings typo. :D I have no idea where my subconscious dredges those up. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 14:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Castiel (Supernatural)

Yes, I'm a bit busy right now but I'll try to review it by the end of the week. :) TheLeftorium 13:50, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 14:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Hunter × Hunter episode 22.png)

Thanks for uploading File:Hunter × Hunter episode 22.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Your delisting request at MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist for aceshowbiz.com

The site is globally blacklisted, and there is little hope of delisting just like that even if you go to global, there are sites which are fully reliable source which are listed there and getting them removed can require crowbars that don't exist. However, two things: you can request whitelisting for a specific article, and if you can't get a single whitelisting, you are very unlikely to be able to get a whitelisting for the whole site (which is what you requested before). With a few whitelistings, it then becomes possible to request local whitelisting of the whole site with better chance of success. And once it is whitelisted locally, *maybe* it can be globally delisted.

You might also take a look at the original reports, and particularly look for links that were added to en.wikipedia. If you find that these were links that were arguably appropriate, you can try to get those whitelisted. Linkspam volunteers are concerned primarily about the numbers of links being added and don't necessarily research details, so, sometimes, the linkspam klaxon goes off with legitimate links that are considered by lots of people, or by one very active person, to belong.

I looked briefly at the blacklist page at meta. the blacklist "message" page -- this is a MediaWiki control file -- for aceshowbiz.com shows an August 2006 entry, by MaxSem. There is a log file for the blacklist page but aceshowbiz seems to be missing, in fact the whole August log seems to be missing. Okay, here is the addition: 14:44, 11 August 2006 MaxSem.

Here is the discussion, such as it is. Please don't get too excited, this is pretty ordinary, from what I've seen. Except for one thing. No showing of cross-wiki spam, which is supposed to be required for global blacklisting. However, MaxSem may have seen some and didn't mention it. Look at the cited page here, and I found a permanent link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam&oldid=69025730#Lots_of_interview_spam.

My comment is that linkspam volunteers sometimes have odd ideas about what links are okay and what are not. Please understand that they are dealing with mountains of real spam and don't have a lot of time to be very discriminating. If you look through the contributions of those IP editors and find good links, you may be able to make a case for whitelisting the site locally, or even for directly delisting at meta. But don't hold your breath on meta, there may be a bit of an attitude there that they don't make mistakes, which is why I suggest working here on en.wikipedia first, with a whitelisting. As I mentioned, there may be lots of evidence that just wasn't documented.

I personally dislike that blacklist administrators are effectively making content decisions, but it's going to take time to address that. Don't get excited, stay civil (as you have been so far), and politely request a specific link, pick the best you can find. Be sure to be familiar with WP:EL. Tentatively, you may have found an example of arguably good content that was removed as linkspam, but you may want to discuss the issue at affected articles and a related WikiProject. Good luck. I've had some success with these issues, but I had, with the most successful, a very solid, nonprofit, award-winning web site, clearly reliable source, that was also clearly a good addition (the kind recommended by WP:EL) to articles with few or no external links, and it may have been better than other links for articles that did have other links. The one example I looked at probably did have too many links, but that could have been fixed, probably, in a better way than blanket removal. If you believe you have found your best shot for whitelisting, and it's declined, let me know, maybe I can help.

One more comment. It's a nuisance, but if you need to cite a page from aceshowbiz.com in an AfD, use a nowiki tag, and maybe separate the text so it's easy for someone to grab it and paste into a browser address bar, like this: http:aceshowbiz.com -- i.e., use <nowiki>http:aceshowbiz.com</nowiki> in your wikitext. And good luck. --Abd (talk) 00:18, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

It's not a site that I care about a lot. It shouldn't be on the list, but for reasons I don't understand it's really hard to get stuff removed. I'm sure I could get a few whitelisted, but I don't remember what article I wanted to use it on anymore. It seems like once a year they have something I want, I ask for a whitelisting, am turned down, then rinse and repeat. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:29, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Happy Peregrine Fisher's Day!

Peregrine Fisher has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Peregrine Fisher's day! For your diligent work in this encyclopedic venture, enjoy being the Star of the day, Peregrine Fisher! Cheers, bibliomaniac15 05:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC) If you'd like to show off your awesomeness, you can use this userbox.

Cool! Thanks! - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

List of films that often used the word fuck

Dear Editor, during talk page discussions, you requested at one point to be notified when this article was up for deletion again. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of films that most frequently use the word "fuck" (9th nomination). Best regards, hoping you can supply some input, --Reinoutr (talk) 08:24, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Black Cat

Template:Black Cat has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 20:06, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Black Cat

I have nominated Category:Black Cat (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 20:10, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thanks for your participation in my recent Request for adminship. This is my official thanks to you; not just for some little support vote, but for all the work you have done in getting articles up to GA status. I know I don't need to tell you since you have been involved in many of these, but here is what we've got since I started the GA drives - read 'em and weep!

D&D: Gary Gygax, Wizards of the Coast, Dragons of Despair, Drizzt Do'Urden, Forgotten Realms, Tomb of Horrors, Dwellers of the Forbidden City, White Plume Mountain, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Planescape: Torment, Dragonlance, and Against the Giants

Comics: Spider-Man, Spider-Man: One More Day, Silver Age of Comic Books, Alex Raymond, Winnie Winkle, LGBT themes in comics, Hergé, and Pride & Joy (comics)

Excellent work, and thanks once again for all your help and good work. :) BOZ (talk) 03:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Ruby and Bela Talbot

Hey, thanks again for your help in the Castiel article. Hopefully it will be reviewed again soon. In the meantime, I've also worked on the articles for Ruby and Bela Talbot and have nominated them. Since it will probably be a while before they are reviewed, do you mind taking a look at them and seeing what improvements can be made? Thanks. Ophois (talk) 03:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I asked Leftorium if you would take up his review again, and I think he might do it this weekend. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, in a couple days I will have very limited access to the web, so if you don't mind, when the Ruby and Bela articles are eventually reviewed for Good Article status, could you please make the necessary adjustments to get them up to par? Thanks. Ophois (talk) 09:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on them. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Jackie Robinson Article Re-Work

I've done a lot of work on the Jackie Robinson article the past week, and if you have any comments I'd appreciate them. I'm hoping it's ready to re-nominate for FA status now. But let me know if you have any thoughts. BillTunell (talk) 19:33, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Cool! When I tried for FA, it had two issues, mostly. Not enough book sources, and copyediting. I couldn't do the copyedit, becuase some editors wanted most of the references replaced with book sources, which would of course require rewriting anything that had its ref changed. I'd ask at WP:FAC if the current sources are going to lead to so many opposes you can't get it passed.

I don't want to read the whole thing right now, so could you quickly tell me which parts have changed the most since I stopped working on it after the last FAC? Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Request for Mediation

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Li Yong (Tang Dynasty), and indicate whether you agree or disagree to mediation. If you are unfamiliar with mediation on Wikipedia, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. Please note there is a seven-day time limit on all parties responding to the request with their agreement or disagreement to mediation. Thanks, Nlu (talk) 16:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC) --Nlu (talk) 16:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Damien (South Park)

Hey Peregrine. I was hoping you could help me out with something. Right now, the FAC for Damien (South Park) seems to be hung up solely on the image rationales for the infobox image and the Omen comparison image. If the Omen picture has to go, I can live with that, but I can't see justifying cutting the infobox image. I'd appreciate it if you could go to the FAC to voice your support if you think the images work, or to provide me with some feedback on how they can be fixed if they aren't. (Of everyone who has criticized so far, nobody has provided any helpful feedback yet). It's over here: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Damien (South Park)/archive1. Thanks! — Hunter Kahn _(contribs) 22:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I've been watching, and it's a tough situation. You've got a few options.

1) The easiest thing to do, is to just remove the images. It sucks, but bang!, you'd have an FA. Someone would probably come along and add an image to it after it was an FA, and I doubt it would get delisted because of that.

2) You can remove one of the images. I don't know FA too well, but with the current amount of griping, I don't think SanyGeorgia would fail it with one image, but she probably would with two. I would keep the infobox image, and add something like

"The animators went through several sketch drafts for Satan because, in Parker's words, "There's so many ways to go with him and we couldn't figure out the right one for a long time". The large and muscular look of the character stemmed from the fact that the script called for Satan to massively outweigh Jesus, and that look has persisted for the character throughout the rest of the series.[5]" :below it (keeping the little clickable ref number). Mix up the versions of the sentence for the image caption and the body so they are not identical. Maybe recheck the ref and see if there is any more info that's visually oriented. Then, update the image page to reflect that that is exactly what is being illustrated. No ones mentioned it yet, but the damien pic is actually two non-free images, since putting them together doesn't change that it's using two copyrighted images. It would need something stronger than it currently has, like a reference comparing the two images in detail.

3) Try and keep both images, or replace the damien one with another non-free image. I think doing step 2 above will be enough (hopefully) for the infobox image, but you'll either need to look for a better ref on damien vs. the omen, or use another ref that talks a lot about some other visual aspect of the show, and put in an image for that. Once the image situation is finished, I'll add a support. It's a great little article. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 22:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

New image project

Hi. This little form letter is just a courtesy notice to let you know that a proposal to merge the projects Wikipedia:WikiProject Free images, Wikipedia:WikiProject Fair use, Wikipedia:WikiProject Moving free images to Wikimedia Commons and Wikipedia:WikiProject Illustration into the newly formed Wikipedia:WikiProject Images and Media has met with general support at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Files. Since you're on the rosters of membership in at least one of those projects, I thought you might be interested. Conversation about redirecting those projects is located here. Please participate in that discussion if you have any interest, and if you still have interest in achieving the goals of the original project, we'd love to have you join in. If you aren't interested in either the conversation or the project, please pardon the interruption. :) Thanks. Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 13:24, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Request for mediation not accepted

A Request for Mediation to which you were are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the case subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Li Yong (Tang Dynasty). For the Mediation Committee, Ryan Postlethwaite 20:43, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management.
If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.

Re:Great job!

Thanks for the kind words! I'm enjoying doing the South Park edits, and am glad to see things seem to be picking up a bit at the WikiProject South Park, especially with the featured topic drive and whatnot... — Hunter Kahn _(contribs) 05:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Cover of Conrad's Fate.jpg)

Thanks for uploading File:Cover of Conrad's Fate.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

WP:RSN

Hi. As someone who previously commented on related topics, I wonder maybe you could also comment on the reliability of this source? [4] Thank you. Grandmaster 12:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Treehouse of Horror

I finished the production section (I hope it's good enough). :) TheLeftorium 15:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

It looks great. Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 15:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Levi Johnston

FYI: Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2009 May 7#Levi Johnston.   Will Beback  talk  20:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Hankey, the Christmas Poo

Hey Peregrine. There was a concern raised about the caption length in the Mr. Hankey, the Christmas Poo FAC, so I've shortened it again. Just wanted to let you know. I didn't get the impression this item was going to stop you from supporting the FA, but I'd appreciate any comments you have either way... — Hunter Kahn _(contribs) 00:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for the response, Peregrine. I've tried a new caption that is both short and includes the Steamboat Willie info (you weren't the only one who perferred it stay) so I think this will make everyone happy. — Hunter Kahn _(contribs) 20:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

MASH

• Don't forget to express your opinion one way or the other at all the List_of_M*A*S*H_episodes_(Season_1). Every' episode has been nominated individually and there is only a few days left for the comments period to remain open. Even the pilot is up for deletion, and it was nominated for multiple awards. Your opinion one way or the other will determine if the nominator moves on to season two, and starts the tedious process again. 24 episodes are up for deletion, some don't have full plot summaries added yet, but the vote determines whether the episodes have the right to exist to be expanded upon later. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 06:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I can't believe you are not a member yet

I checked the membership list, and I can't believe you are not a member. If I asked you to join before, my apologies. I appreciate your work.

Hello, Peregrine Fisher. You have been invited to join the Article Rescue Squadron, a collaborative effort to rescue articles from deletion if they can be improved through regular editing. For more information, please visit the project page, where you can >> join << and help rescue articles tagged for deletion and rescue. Ikip (talk) 22:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Big Article Rescue Squadron Welcome!

Here to help articles tagged for rescue! Articles tagged for deletion and rescue Category Articles tagged for deletion and rescue not found Hi, Peregrine Fisher, welcome to the Article Rescue Squadron! We are a growing community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to identifying and rescuing articles that have been tagged for deletion. Every day hundreds of articles are deleted, many rightfully so. But many concern notable subjects and are poorly written, ergo fixable and should not be deleted. We try to help these articles quickly improve and address the concerns of why they are proposed for deletion. This covers a lot of ground and your help is appreciated! If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the talk page, and we will be happy to help you. And once again - Welcome! Ikip (talk) 03:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I am so glad that you are officially a member--glad to see your name finally on the list. I will look forward to continuing to work with you in referencign articles. Thanks. Ikip (talk) 03:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The Hunt of the Unicorn

I noticed you uploaded the File:The Hunt of the Unicorn Tapestry 1.jpg. I was wondering if you'd be okay with me uploading a new version of the file from the Metropolitan Museum's site. I believe that the image taken by the museum is sharper and has better color. The image is located here and according to the Museum's terms and conditions it would be okay to upload the image, so long as all caption information is added. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 23:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Go for it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiBirthday

I saw from here that it's been exactly four years since you joined the project. Happy WikiBirthday! Keep up the good work, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 13:05, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

And a happy Wikibirthday from me too! Here's to another great four years. – Quadell ^(talk) 22:35, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Farrah's Story

The three lines need to go into two separate sections and can't be one section in the main article why? Your "start to an article" is nothing more than what was there previously. MSJapan (talk) 04:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Question

Hi. I am planning to edit the Sathya Sai Baba article as per the discussion in the wikipedia reliable source notice board discussion. I would appreciate if you could advice / answer my question here in the following link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Question:Can_an_articles_be_updated_as_per_the_new_2009_Consular_Travel_Warning_For_India.3F. Thanks. Radiantenergy (talk) 02:35, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Bela Talbot

I passed the GAN. Good work! — Hunter Kahn _(contribs) 02:38, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the review! - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:58, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Deletion review for List of the Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien episodes

An editor has asked for a deletion review of List of the Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien episodes. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Tavix |  Talk  15:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Cannabis

You are invited to join WikiProject Cannabis, a WikiProject dedicated to improving articles related to Cannabis. You received this invitation because of your history editing articles related to the plant. The WikiProject Cannabis group discussion is here. If you are interested in joining, please visit the project page, and add your name to the list of participants.

From one WikiProject Oregon member to another, I thought I would send you this invitation. I am not sure if you worked on the Cannabis in Oregon article only for being related to Oregon, or if you are interested in cannabis-related material too, but I wanted to let you know about this new WikiProject just in case. The purpose of this new group is to improve articles relating to cannabis, including drug policy, cultural aspects, legislation, activists, strains, organizations, medical benefits, decriminalization, effects, etc.

Also, this brand new project is in need of expert assistance. If you are familiar with upgrading WikiProjects to include assessments, Collaborations of the Week, Recent Talk/Changes pages, DYK and Awards sections, templates/infoboxes, etc., feel free to offer any help you can!

If you are not interested, no problem--keep up the great work at WikiProject Oregon, and best wishes! --Another Believer _(Talk) 01:41, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Query

As the only previously uninvolved editor that commented at the peer review, would you care to do a GA Review for Bart Sells His Soul? Thanks for your time, Cirt (talk) 23:38, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I can probably do it this week. My internet situation is a little funky right now, so it will take a little while. I have a Simpsons episode GA going on right now, too, so I don't know if it's frowned upon for me to do the review. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:43, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Well you are not participating in this topic drive, I haven't seen you around on Simpsons stuff in a while, and you have not been a contributor to this article, and you were a previously uninvolved commenter at the peer review, so seems perfectly fine. Cirt (talk) 18:13, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'm waiting on FedEx for something to fix my internet, but it should be here soon. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah okay no worries, keep me posted. :) Cirt (talk) 19:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I edited your post

Here as I thought it possible some readers might not immediately recognize the abbreviation, and might lack the interest to pursue it. I hope you are not offended that I took that liberty - if so, please let me know. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:34, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That's fine. I used to link our abbreviations, but it's always the same people at these discussions so I figure they know them by now. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

I believe I have addressed all of the points you raised, and noted as such, at the GA Review subpage. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 08:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I addressed all of the additional points as well. Cirt (talk) 00:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I tried improving on the image rationale a bit more, if you think you could add any other rationale and/or descriptive text to the image page, please feel free to do so. Thank you, Cirt (talk) 03:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

That looks fine. It was just a bit generic before. Now it mentions why it's important to the episode and article. I'm not a huge fan of our non-free rules, anyways. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah okay thanks, perhaps you could mention that you think it looks fine, at the GA2 review subpage? Cirt (talk) 03:15, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Improvements notice board

OK, I finally started an idea I mentioned on the Comics project talk page. :) Feel free to have a go, do whatever you like to make it look better/more functional/whatever, or offer suggestions. BOZ (talk) 14:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

2008–2009 hadrosaur chewing study

Hey Peregrine. I was pleasantly surprised to see you voted to keep the 2008–2009 hadrosaur chewing study! Some people there at the AFD have asked for more specifics from you regarding your vote. If you get a chance some time, maybe you could respond to them. If not, no biggie... — Hunter Kahn _(c) 14:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Pool of Radiance

What's your feeling on working to get something like Pool of Radiance to GA? BOZ (talk) 03:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I like the idea. I'm gonna check the article out now. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 06:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the lead, I had actually gutted it soon after starting on the article, because it contained a bunch of information not supported by the article ([5]); I moved that stuff into the body so we can source/expand it there, and I intended to rewrite the lead later but it looks like you've got a decent start on the summary. Drilnoth has posted a box of references near the top of the talk page which I have yet to look at. BOZ (talk) 12:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I am tired. ;) Check out what I've done so far! BOZ (talk) 03:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I will. Sorry for the lack of effort. I've been busy starting controversial articles and participating in their AfDs (it's fun not being an admin ;-) ). - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:10, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL! Doing the same thing as an admin wouldn't get you any further. :) BOZ (talk) 12:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey there! I bet you're busy with the EttBP FAC, but do you have any time to lend a hand on getting Pool of Radiance ready for a GAN? :) BOZ (talk) 00:25, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User page indexing

Please note Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User page indexing has been repurposed from the standard RFC format it was using into a strraw poll format. Please re-visit the RFC to ensure that your previous endorsement(s) are represented in the various proposals and endorse accordingly.

Notice delivery by xenobot 14:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

User indexing RfC

I noticed you opposed everything on both "sides of the fence". Since your position seems to be unique and not "along party lines", would you care to expand your !vote with rationales? Gigs (talk) 01:01, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

That RfC didn't make any sense to me. I didn't see two sides to it. It was basically "how would you like to NOINDEX user space?" If it had had one simple "Don't NOINDEX anything in userspace", I could have just put my name down once. If there had been an opt out option, I could maybe have supported that. Anyways, if the format gets changed maybe I'll comment there. Just putting in those bare opposes over and over was enough work. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 01:09, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

There was already feedback gathered on a sweeping "yes" or "no" for everything in userspace, and the result was basically no consensus (though leaning toward noindex almost 2:1), with many people expressing support for parts of it though. That's why I broke it up into the individual pieces to see if we could get consensus on any of the parts. You can expand the collapsed table on there to read the first pass statements. Gigs (talk) 13:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jennifer Griswold

Do you mind answering a question please? I noticed you voted to keep this article based on the sources, but now someone has proven most of them aren't valid. I'm curious to know if you actually checked any of them or did you just think if there were so many the person must be notable? 209.247.22.164 (talk) 22:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

One Forbes ref is good enough for me. I saw the imdbs, and knew they weren't reliable, but a lot of the other ones were, if not independent, so there's enough sources to make an article. 12th bachelorette in a city that size is quite an achievement, in my opinion. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 23:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess you really didn't look at all the references carefully or haven't looked at the recent comments posted. It has been proven the only valid reference used in the article was Forbes. 209.247.22.164 (talk) 16:53, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

No, I saw it all. There's a difference between reliable, and independant. For notability, they have to be reliable and independent. To be used, they only have to be reliable. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Three of the references were for a different Jennifer Griswold, so they certainly weren't reliable. Of the three remaining references, one is a personal web page created by Griswold (not independent) and one is her biography at her stations's website, no doubt full of information provided by her, so it's not independent. That leaves one reliable and independent reference, and all it proves is she's an unwarried woman in St. Paul, which can't be considered an "achievement", so what makes her notable? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand how more experienced editors think. 209.247.22.164 (talk) 17:29, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, the imdb ones, and the ones about the wrong person should be removed (if they haven't been already). I don't care enough about the article to work on it myself. If you want to know how I think, read inclusionism (other philosophies are linked on that page). I feel that all local newscasters should have articles if there is verifiable info on them, but in AfDs you've got to play the game and cite some version of policy. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:39, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Beyond: Children of MJ

11-July-2009: You probably have limited time to deal with the crazy AfD squabbles, but I'd also like to thank you for keeping CoMJ alive as long as possible, during this post-funeral period. I estimate over 150,000 readers have already gotten specific answers from that page (and the redirects to it). Can you imagine what the previous frustrated readers thought about the savvy of WP when every Jackson topic redirected to the big article "Michael Jackson"? Also, imagine their reaction to learning those topics are "non-notable" within our weakipedia!!! (OMG, too embarrassing to ponder...).
Anyway, I have come to think of Wikipedia articles, not as pages, but rather as a temporary service among all readers/editors to share facts, for the fleeting time before they are hacked or AfD'd into oblivion. To extend the fleeting time of the CoMJ topic, I'm thinking to migrate to an article as "Michael Jackson fatherhood" (or such) as the long-term article. I think the title term "Children" has become a trigger word, even a witching word, causing the AfD-wolves to salivate in a rabid obsession to delete cuz: "notability is not inherited". By shifting the title focus, much closer, to Michael Jackson himself, as being his "Fatherhood" topic, I think it can be better understood that it's an MJ article, not a "3-kid" article (but don't use the word "children" too much when describing his fatherhood activities). The nearly unstoppable illusion about the CoMJ article was that it was about his children, independently, totally excluding him, and thereby, totally excluding the notability of 12 years of events/news about MJ with his kids. It really didn't matter to some deleters that, in the real world, most people stop & turn when the children of Michael Jackson enter the scene. Hence, Paris Jackson speaks, and 180,000 people type her name into Wikipedia.
We know (in reality) that's what most people think the "sum of knowledge" sort of includes, if being written by so-called smart folks. However, back in the wiki-verse, articles are written at great peril and suffering; my estimate: "Wikipedia is 10% information and 90% deformation". I keep trying to anticipate what people expect from a "real encyclopedia" and rush to make it happen, before they realize (often) WP:Wikipedia is failing. Only recently, I realized the devastating editor-burnout rate: of 10 million registered, only 151,000 editors remain each month; hence the burnout-rate = 98.5%. I keep hoping that a critical mass of savvy people will change policies, and stop insulting the thousands (by now, millions) of editors. However, WP is becoming an ageing bureaucracy mired in volumes of faulty policies and irresistably insulting procedures. Wikipedia is a major, major psycho magnet, which almost accidentally allows the majority of sane people to write a few pages before they become hacked and embarrassing with wiki-rot.
So now, even if the CoMJ page were to survive the current gloomy AfD, you know they'll re-salivate and try a later re-AfD. The arguments, enscribed on the 1st AfD are sanity notes for posterity about what notability means for smart-folks, but they cannot stop the temptation to "consensus-ize" with the 80%? majority to delete or merge-away. Most people, in general, will just "turn the crank" like robots stuck on auto-policy-pilot; few are deep thinkers (I was a math/computer tutor to college students). Hence, I feel the proposed article "Michael Jackson fatherhood" would be less shark-infested and could become the future answer for redirection from "Children of M..." or "Prince Jackson" or "Blanket Jackson" and the other names. Let me know what you think (you could reply below). -Wikid77 (talk) 04:58, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

I think the title did create some unfortunate attention. The typical title would be Family of Michael Jackson, but there's already that Jackson Family (which our article will probably be merged to) article which confuses things. I think Fatherhood of MJ would attract even worse attention than Children of... We'll see what the closing admin does. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:05, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Pilot (Warehouse 13)

I have nominated Pilot (Warehouse 13), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pilot (Warehouse 13). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. — TAnthony^Talk 00:54, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey there, I want to thank you for your cooperative attitude, and though I think the article is unnecessary at this point, I appreciate your efforts and hope I haven't come off as an aggressive jerk ;) — TAnthony^Talk 02:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

You didn't, but thanks for saying so. A lot of the info in the pilot article will do well in the main article, but I'm hoping to have room for both. I like to make GAs, and getting a series article to GA status is crazy hard compared to episode pages (plus the series just started). I watched the pilot last night (it was pretty good, but not great), and I just figured I'd try and set a good example for anyone else who might think about making episode pages. I didn't even really look at the series page. Usually those do fine, and the episodes are just plot and lists of trivia. I will say, (kinda contrary to WP:EPISODE) I think it's easier to work bottom up. If we had several well referenced episode articles, it's a piece of cake to grab the best referenced info and throw it into the series article. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:26, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Happy Bastille Day!

Dear fellow Wikipedian, on behalf of the Kindness campaign, I just want to wish you a Happy Bastille Day, whether you are French, Republican or not!  :) Happy Editing! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 23:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks. I saw that you were working on some soap opera character pages. Do you think you'll have success with them? I tried google news'ing them, but didn't have a lot of success. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:13, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

CoMJ article now has 2 notable topics

I agree. You have kept stating, per WP:N, how MJ's children are a separate notable topic, so I re-read that policy, and finally agree with you. Hence, I am now defending the article CoMJ as covering 2 notable topics: MJ + daughter (easily defended as having "significant coverage"). That realization has led to a new subsection, in the AfD, for "Has 2 notable topics":

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Children_of_Michael_Jackson#Has 2 notable topics

Thank you for helping. We might be slow to learn, but I think your continual comments have helped to broaden the understanding of "wiki-notability". I have carefully documented those reasons, so this AfD could be a future example of how to move forward in these areas. -Wikid77 (talk) 19:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Notability is established by two or more sources that are detailed. I've found exactly two, so far.12 Basically the article needs to be about the kids, and not MJ. If it's about MJ, and just mentions the kids, it doesn't count. Saying it gets its notability from MJ, is kinda like saying it isn't notable. It's going to get merged, and cut drastically. When the real parents are determined, there will be enough coverage at that time to try again. We should push for a merge into Jackson Family, and not MJ. The MJ editors will cut it down to what's already there. In Jackson Family there's room, and it will be easier to pull it out late. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:33, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Stan Marsh GAR

If I read you correctly, I think you were waiting for a response from me before finishing the review...so here it is (believe me, there's no hurry or anything). Hopefully others will get involved after you've left some notes. I'm busier than about 100 beavers right now, and I'll do my best to make improvements per your comments (I've already started to look into some of the source issues you've mentioned). Thanks! - SoSaysChappy (talk) 23:34, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Let's discuss it on the GAN page. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 23:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Peregrine Fisher. You have new messages at Mazca's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

~ mazca ^talk 18:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

CoMJ deleted but had 215,000+ successful pageviews

17-July-2009: Okay, fair success: "Children of Michael Jackson" survived, long enough, to handle the highest user interest, at least 215,000 pageviews to answer reader questions (without those hideous redirects back to main article). Also, the AfD proved that despite using "recap subsections" to clarify debate points, an AfD can still get deleted by majority hunches, ignoring true wiki-notability, and following unfounded fears about edit-libeling minors (that wouldn't stand up in any court in U.S. tabloid heaven). Anyway, I created a user-space copy:

Same text: User:Wikid77/Michael Jackson in fatherhood

When CoMJ was deleted (at 17:51, 16 July 2009 by closing admin User:Mazca), user interest had finally dropped (from 35,000? per day) to level out at only 8,000 per day (3500 direct +4500 redirects). At least 215,000 total pageviews were requested (only a few thousand from the AfD), so most pageviews had answered real user interest. Per my wiki-impact math, if I multiply by 7, the impact was:

affected by CoMJ article: 215,000 x 7 ~= 1.5 million people

So, again, viewing articles as a temporary fleeting service, rather than as long-term products, the CoMJ article answered questions (quickly), to some extent, for nearly 1.5 million people. And, that's knowing it would be deleted! Thank you so much for keeping it alive: it had been deleted twice before you (by prod and speedied). Plus, if you hadn't emphasized the notability of relatives with "significant coverage", then I would have likely abandoned the AfD rather than drag it out until those 215,000 readers got their answers.
At this point, I'll let the topic cool: the obsession to delete occurred with 226 AfD pageviews/day(!), without waiting 2 days for final rebuttals. It seemed like a rabid frenzy to delete, and proves another valuable lesson: if a project does not include "customers" (readers) as valuable, then 215,000 can be ignored, and 8000 readers per day will lose their article (ranked #497 of 3 million articles). Wikipedia would have to be re-scoped to value readers, to avoid the current wiki-spastic "don't know no children of Jackson" as replied 8000 times per day. Anyway, until 17-July-2009, Wikipedia gave the answers to 96% of current readers, not the typical "Wik-duh-pedia" it would have been without your help. Thanks again. -Wikid77 (talk) 06:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Where are you getting your numbers from? I see 50,000 page views. In any case, it was a nice service we were able to provide for a time.

• The total of 215,000 pageviews takes those 50,000 direct-hits then adds 33,000 redirect-hits from "Blanket Jackson" aka "Prince..II" aka "Blanket (disambiguation)" plus 17,000 hits from "Prince..I" plus Paris/aliases and part of Canadian Paris Jackson (for lowercase Paris jackson) beyond his prior 20 hits/day. It's a complex estimate of all that.

You're probably going to want to blank User:Wikid77/Michael Jackson in fatherhood, otherwise someone will come along and delete it. Just keep it in the history, and if you work on it, blank it after each session. You should probably move the page to another name, as well. Maybe User:Wikid77/Test1 or something.

The article is at WP:DRV right now. It's going to stay deleted, but people have commented that the reasons for deletion don't match our policies. That will be good ammo to have if we recreate it some day.

I think Paris is going to put out a song. When she does, it will make the article (or one just about her) easy to keep from being deleted. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 06:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Whilst obviously I object to being labelled "wiki-spastic", given that I hoped we would all accept input to the AfD as being in good faith, I would say that if Paris releases a song, then that's probably enough notability for an article of her own when combined with the other stuff, and I would almost certainly suggest retention at the inevitable AfD once she's released it. I've fiddled with Wikid's wiki-page, and will talk to him about it in due course. Fritzpoll (talk) 07:06, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't take the spastic thing to seriously. Wikid has an interesting way with words. I do believe all the !votes in the AfD were made in good faith. People really cared about that one.

Yeah, his page is findable by Google, so a rename and a blanking (at least when it's not being worked on, if it's worked on at all) are probably in order. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:19, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, as a middle-ground, I edited the page to add a {{NOINDEX}} tag to it, which should appease many. Hopefully Wikid will leave it on. AfD can be a terrible place, and is only made worse if we assume bad things about the people we disagree with. I hope ill-will isn't going to permeate because of this, because none is borne from me to you. Fritzpoll (talk) 07:28, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

And vice-versa. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 15:01, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Guidelines for subarticles and pre-protecting pages

Fritzpoll contacted me, and I explained term "Weakipedia" (etc.), as emphasizing the policy problems, not people. I also thanked Fritzpoll for those AfD suggestions that improved the CoMJ article for the 215,000 pageviews/readers, and for the rescue when someone did a POV rename as "Children..Debbie Rowe" (not MJ!). Meanwhile, the readers saw a quality article, at a time when millions were mourning and worried about the children's outlook. Fritzpoll also suggested creating a guideline for subarticles. Plus, I think we need to pre-plan protections to reduce vandalism about a new subarticle (typically unprotected) while seen by 65,000 per day, rather than wait the typical embarrassing time period until "vandalism is proven" to the admins and proven to utterly offend the mourning readers ("custody will go to Octomom"). Policies must be changed to allow Wikipedia editors to help provide crisis information, without opening a clear window to allow crass insults and tasteless remarks to be seen by 65,000 per day. I have done studies that show putting a top tagbox "Article defective: please help" will go unfixed for 28,000 pageviews, before someone fixes the problem. Protection must be pre-planned for new crisis-related articles. -Wikid77 (talk) 10:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notability and fiction

Wikipedia:Notability and fiction (shortcut WP:NAF) has been drafted per the general consensus at the recent RFC to which you contributed. You are invited to review the essay and to edit it in an attempt to generate a consensus regarding the issue. Hiding T 10:09, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Put 5 motions-to-overturn in WP:DRV for CoMJ

I added 5 points, such as "Overturn #5 (from author)", in WP:Deletion_review/Log/2009_July_16. I had noticed that some other users were treating your comments as merely re-hashing the AfD. It was obvious, to me, that you were indicating the AfD-closure was flawed by a lack of due process (to fully discuss those issues) plus a reconsideration for the new evidence of "25 news sources" to overturn the decision. Consequently, I added 5 similar "legal motions to overturn" the ruling, with the wording chosen to reject the process, not just the final decision. -Wikid77 (talk) 14:03, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Writing new guidelines that general folks understand

18-July-2009: These recent events have just re-confirmed what I've been telling people for years: Wikipedia runs on mobocracy, despite other people claiming (for years), "No, no, WP decisions are made per logical reasoning, in accordance with written policies". Well, actually, that's not how decisions have been made, for several years, as of July 2009. I'm not quite sure what the problem is with the wiki-masses, in this attitude, that "truth" is a popularity contest. There can't be a massive, multi-year wiki-cabal, so I suspect these mob-judgments are simply what happens when ordinary folk are challenged to think.
Many school teachers have concluded that thinking must be taught to most people. In America, people are not allowed, typically, to become official judges without some type of formal judicial education, where they must pass standards of clear thinking. Not just anyone can sit on the bench, and start making decisions that affect thousands of other people.
We have to write reality-based guidelines, with totally obvious examples, so that anyone could understand them. The wiki-masses don't follow concepts such as "significant coverage" in reliable sources: I must conclude the current WP policies are like wiki-calculus for the masses. They cannot calculate wiki-integrals of the policies to reach a logical conclusion. Hence, the current policies are a failure for coordinating general editors.
So, these bogus AfD discussions are such a waste of time, re-hashing misunderstandings as confirmed by popularity votes. We have to write policy essays to explain actual examples to be followed: I don't think there's any other hope. Most people just don't understand the current policy points, no matter how carefully that text is quoted in discussions. They see "NOTINHERITED" and that's the extend of their reading: 2 words is a policy to them. Perhaps they started to read the policy text (yawn) and re-zoned to the 2 words, period.

To be readable, we must list obvious examples, such as the one-event R.M.S. Titanic generating "50" notables. Plus, those examples must be listed in easy-to-read essays (no consensus required), so when we put "WP:BIGEVENT" they know that, historically, big single events have generated numerous notables (e.g.: Lee Harvey Oswald & Jack Ruby in JFK assassination; Charles Manson & Manson family in Sharon Tate/etc. murders). It's the only way to defeat the notion that exceptions, to the intricate policies, must be determined by intense debates of popularity votes. No, instead, big-event notability can be explained by a simple essay of examples. We need those policy essays to shift the mass voting. -Wikid77 (talk) 18:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

• Okay, I have completed a draft of essay WP:BIGEVENT, that can be used to clearly show examples of how WP:BLP and WP:ONEEVENT do allow exceptions for one-event notability, in the special case of large events. Next, I will write an essay to minimize BLP-child-risk issues. -Wikid77 (talk) 23:38, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Pilot (Warehouse 13)

So the AfD has been closed as a merge, but to be honest, after the discussion and your improvements I'm somewhat more appreciative of your argument. To that end, I will at some point add what I think is helpful to the main article, but I will not "enforce" the merge to the point of actually redirecting Pilot (Warehouse 13). If someone else does, I would wait until you've created a second episode article for the series and I will not contest your restoration of this article. Thanks again for your hard work and cooperative attitude.— TAnthony^Talk 20:32, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:42, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Reader interest varies

The 2-day interest in article "Walter Cronkite" has decreased, from daily 327,900 to 79,200. Interest in other pages has varied, such as with prefix "User_talk:". I guess it varies, from day to day, like interest in birdwatching and such. For example, in July, some people go on excursions to view goose-hawks or perhaps it's duck, to hear what sounds they make, and the interest is 20 to 30 times higher, per day, than in the spring. Some look for other types of flocks, such as groups of *33, *44, *55, etc. which are also seen 20-30 times more than on typical Spring days. It is important to be silent, when a group of 200 people is watching a flock, because the noise can scare them. When editing bird articles, I mostly fix commas. I have a birdfeeder in the front yard, but I only check it twice a day, for mostly cardinals, not stool pigeons. I have an emu (which likes watermelon, grass, crickets & pellet food), but sometimes I feel as though vultures are circling it, looking for a weak victim, in the pasture. However, the emu chases stray dogs and cowbirds, so there's no danger there. Anyway, the watermelon harvest is underway, and so with July being a major birdwatching month, I think I should focus on the emu article this week. Perhaps next week I'll be free to edit others, and give you time to fly through different tasks. Have a good week. -Wikid77 (talk) 06:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. I've added Emu to my watchlist. Can you tell me where you're getting your viewership numbers? The only one I know is http://stats.grok.se/en/200906/Walter_Cronkite , which gives me a different number. I'm not forgetting about the CofMY article, but I'm going to work on it and bring it back slowly. Keep in touch. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 06:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

• Be sure to check 200907/Cronkite after *06 (same for *907/User_talk:pere*). For Cronkite, the stats have resumed higher as 327.9k, 79.2k then 79.9k (Monday), because Sunday is a wiki-slowday (Wednesday is the wiki-highday). I see you're right about CofM article: I had forgotten Google still indexes a deleted article, only new or changed articles get updated in Google on the next day: this was Wikipedia's high-honor to be re-indexed daily, when most websites must wait 3-5 weeks to re-index changed pages. Google doesn't AfD, so searches will match non-pages & WP looks even worse for Google-matching a deleted-article. However, the AfDers screwed themselves: CofM is still in Google cache (+Bing.com) & experienced googlers can still read the whole article (it went "viral" because of improper AfD-delete). We need new guidelines WP:REGOOGLE & WP:REBING to let people know articles should be fixed, re-indexed (next day), before AfD-delete leaves page-text set in stone (for weeks).
  I also understand your analysis: people AfD for whatever invented reasons "WP:CuzUnpleasant". Fortunately, I think WP handled Cronkite well: his article got protected in 1 day, but it's just lucky the prior coverage was balanced. I think some haters had been derailing MJ for years: article "We Are the World" got wiki-hacked to omit African drought relief in 1984-1985 & omitted $63 million raised.
  It's pretty sad when an 11-yr-old has to inform a billion people: "was the best father ever" and still people vote ignore(!). Tell me she didn't state the most notable insight since Sigmund Freud's complexes. We both know: new article should be "Best father ever" (Google hits=343,000) like Titanic "S.O.S." or 9/11 "Let's roll" or Manson "Helter Skelter". We still need guidelines for crisis-articles, such as a WP:CRISISPAGE that would delay panic-AfDs for "unpleasant subjects" as if an AfD could protect them better than 15 famous Jacksons in a family compound. If the Christmas-uncle dermatologist is found to be one father, it's not the end of their world: they like him. This type of AfD is such a waste of time & caused the article to go viral, where we couldn't even correct mistakes if found in the Bing.com or Google cache copies. However, I agree a slow return would be best. -Wikid77 (talk) 04:23, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Some progress

As planned, there is a new essay to deter BLP-deletions (shortcut WP:BLPMEND or WP:BLPWAIT), by explaining the actual policy (what a great new idea!). Feel free to expand that essay this month. For people who haven't read the BLP policy, those shortcut names emphasize waiting/mending before a rare decision to BLP-delete an article. Typically, it is a policy-violation to quickly delete (per BLP). The essay also briefly explains why violating by BLP-delete can cause articles to go viral. I noted that Bing.com creates subheader link-pages. (With recent CofM, each child could have a separate Bing page, copied from that article before it was gone.) Suggested usage: "OMG, you need to read WP:BLPMEND so you don't violate policy and cause a viral mess". Non-suggested usage: "Dude, only pinheads would BLP-delete; read WP:BLPWAIT and get a clue". Most people don't want to create a mess, and they wouldn't vote badly if they had these magic-words to grab. Pass the word. -Wikid77 (talk) 16:56, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

stats story

There's a note in N&N this week: Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-07-20/News_and_notes -- but a longer story for next week wouldn't go amiss. Feel free to start one, or work on the News & Notes story. cheers, -- phoebe / (talk to me) 02:35, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'll start on it tomorrow. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Reborn Doll

I have left a comment ( and questions) on the Reborn Doll discussion page.--KayPet (talk) 19:08, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I am curious as to what are your thoughts on this article real chances of passing the nomination? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:45, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I think they have a really good chance, but they need to focus more on cutting material, and not trying to find a ref for what currently has an unreliable source. They should just cut what is sourced to an unreliable source, and refactor what's left. They've got over 20! sections and subsections. That article would be broad in its coverage with maybe 3-4 sections beyond the External links and References sections. I'll link to this conversation on the talk page. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

A few sections can probably be refactored not to appear in the ToC, I think 2.2.1 International Reborn Doll Artists (IRDA), 2.3.1 Lifelike Dolls and 2.3.2. The others seem to be useful. Which ones would you get rid of in addition to those (and do note that I am talking about refactoring headings, not deleting content)? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

It will probably look somthing like the main sections without the sub-sections. It will all be dependent on what's left after the non-reliable sources are removed. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:43, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, as I look more closely, the RS issue is almost dealt with, and there is a ton of info, so it will have a lot of sections. Almost as many as it does now. This is going to be a very broad GA. If they get this done, you'll have to tell KayPet what a good job they did. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:48, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I have dealt with newborning a reborning section as much as I can. Is it okay? and Is there anything else to work on?--KayPet (talk) 03:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll check. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:31, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I think I took care of it.--KayPet (talk) 03:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you so much for everything. I read some of the comments other reviewers left for my classmates and well you were really nice and helpful. Especially with the grammar stuff. I don't know how these good article reviews usually go but I don't know if it usually involves so much proofing, and I appreciate you being so patient there. And you also made me laugh (a lot) by describing my teacher perfectly. As minor as an achievement as this may have been I'm really excited because I don't know if anyone has gotten passed C status when he's previously assigned this. Again Thanks Thanks Thanks and YAY--KayPet (talk) 04:17, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

To reiterate what Kaypet said, thank you so much for all of your help!! We really appreciate all the time you took to help us and your quick responses to meet our deadlines. Thanks again!!--136.142.146.53 (talk) 13:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Image	Description
	The WikiPen I, Piotrus, award you The WikiPen, the award of the WikiProject Classroom coordination, for exceptional help and assistance you have given in your capactity as a Good Article Reviewer to students of the Pitt Sociology Summer 2009 Assignment. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 04:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I am wondering if you could take a look at some of the remaining assignments for this course? Perhaps you could offer advice to students working on them? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 04:43, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Btw, I was looking at the article again and I think there is one issue that was not addressed - not enough wikilinks. I mean, look at the lead: several long paragraphs and not a single hyperlink... Also, I wonder what's the justification for adding the article the Category:Internet culture - the article doesn't mention the word Internet at all. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 20:29, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of overlinking, but you're right, the lead is underlinked. I guess the internet thing is because they sell them on ebay. Might be best to remove it, though. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 20:40, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

The person sent me all the stuff for the photos, I am going to e-mail you her e-mail if you don't mind because I have no idea how to do photos, I tried before and failed miserably.--KayPet (talk) 21:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Oops didn't see she had Cc'd you oh well now you have two e-mails my bad--KayPet (talk) 21:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Very cool. You can upload them to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page if you want, or I'll do it soon. If you do do it, give a link so I can make sure all the paperwork gets done correctly. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 22:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

HarvardGate

The prod has been removed, but clearly we should not have 2 articles on the same thing, where do we go from here? Dougweller (talk) 17:02, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I redirected it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:06, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, good call. Dougweller (talk) 05:03, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Simpsons infobox images

I was criticized in my (failed) RfA for using non-free images as decoration rather than to illustrate information, so basically that's what I've stopped doing. I still upload images to illustrate information, such as "I Married Marge", but most of the time infobox images aren't really necessary. :) Theleftorium 18:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I see. You'd make a good admin, so keep up the good NFCC work. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Student GAs

I'm pretty sure that at least one will pass, but as for the rest, I'm not so sure. Since their course ends tomorrow, it may depend on whether some are willing to work beyond the course deadline to get it to GA - even though they won't be graded on that achievement. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:26, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I see. It will be interesting to see if any continue. WP can be very addictive, but starting with a GA for class credit is not the typical way to start. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 14:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

re OTRS

 Done. Cheers, Cirt (talk) 04:55, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:22, 30 July 2009 (UTC)