Talk:Yahshuah

Name of Jesus

I would like to know who is posting this misinformation on the name of Yahshuah? It is a biased and unlearned position to say that the first people to use the name were Renaissance occultists. Where do we get the names of the prophets that end in ""YAH? Most people will insist on the Tetragrammaton (which simply means "four letters") wriiten in the Old TEstament of the Bible. But what is the translation of this name? Is it not a composite of a name(Yah) and a word (ovah -meaning "the Eternal")??

Jesus, on the other hand, is a name first used by occultists, although much earlier than the Renaissance. -- unsigned comment by IP 66.44.125.88 21:49, 29 April 2006

I am -- as you could have easily seen from the edit history (if you knew what you were doing). It's a relatively simple ascertainable historical fact that the name of Jesus in Hebrew ( ישוע or יהושע ) does not end with an "h" consonant or letter he ה, and has never ended with an "h" consonant or letter he ה. The names of prophets that end in Yah are spelled with יה at the end in Hebrew, and NOT with the letter `Ayin ע at the end (as the original form of the name of Jesus was). This `Ayin consonant letter ע at the end of the original form of the name of Jesus in Hebrew/Aramaic represents a voiced pharyngeal sound -- which is not an "h" consonant, is not transcribed as an "h" consonant by any knowledgeable scholars or linguists, and is rarely if ever confused with a letter ה in writing.

Furthermore, the name of Jesus in Greek Ιησους does not end with an "h" consonant and has never ended with an "h" consonant -- and similarly with Latin IESVS (or "Jesus" as it's written nowadays, since we have the distinction between upper-case and lower-case letters, and the distinction between "I"/"J" and "U"/"V"). Note that the ancient Greek spelling Iota-eta-sigma-omicron-upsilon-sigma (Ιησους) was actually the closest possible adaptation or borrowing of the ancient Hebrew/Aramaic name Yêshû` (yod-shin-waw-`ayin) into Greek which the rules of the sound-system and morphology of Greek would allow, since the ancient Greek language did not have any voiced pharyngeal `Ayin consonant or palatal sibilant [š] ("sh") sound, and insofar as a [y] consonant sound existed, it was phonologically just a variant of the [i] vowel. So there were simply no separate Greek letters to write the sounds `Ayin, "sh", or "y". And in late Hellenistic Greek, omicron-upsilon was pronounced as a simple long [u] vowel (the [u] in Yêshû` is also long). And finally, if a noun or name was to be "declined" in Greek (i.e. have distinct forms for at least some of the nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, and vocative morphological cases), then it needed to have appropriate Greek grammatical endings added on at the end -- and "s" was an extremely common ending in the masculine nominative singular. So Iêsous (spelling Ιησους representing a pronunciation [yêsûs]) is the nearest that ancient Greek could get to Hebrew and/or Aramaic Yêshû` while obeying the rules of ancient Greek grammar. And Latin IESVS (modern spelling "Jesus", for the reasons explained above) was a quite natural adaptation of Greek ΙΗΣΟΥΣ (with minimal change to the Greek form being borrowed into Latin). "Occultists" were not involved. It's all explained at http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/yeshua-yasu-isa.htm 17:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

This is some guys original research obviously. They don't like being asked to cite refrences as they keep removing the request from the top of the page. --Teacherbrock (talk) 13:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Who is the "they" who keep removing the "unreferenced" template from the top of this article, and which edit diffs display this behavior on the part of "they" (whoever "they" may be)? -- AnonMoos (talk) 17:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Tetragrammaton

Matters connected with the Tetragrammaton are discussed on the Tetragrammaton page, but you should be aware that Semitic etymologies almost always proceed by Triliteral roots, and that no Semitic lexical elements begin with vowels (so that "owah" is impossible as a Hebrew lexical element, and furthermore, does not exist as a word meaning "eternal" in the Hebrew language). Most etymological speculation traces the Tetragrammaton back to a triconsonantal root H-W-Y meaning "to be, exist" (as in Exodus 3:14). AnonMoos 17:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Please Cite References

You don't get some sort of refrencess-less free pass. Wikipedia require references and you have none. A google search and some websites isn't going to cut it.--Teacherbrock (talk) 13:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Anonmoos has EIGHT yes EIGHT reverts to this page in the last year, basically it appears that anyone that attempts to change this non-cited work gets vandalized by this character. Please do not allow him to bully you around, this is his original work/research, he is notorious for unilateral updates. It is up to him to cite references because he is the one publishing disputed work that is likely original research. --Teacherbrock (talk) 13:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Whatever, dude -- if you have any specific valid objections to any aspect of what's currently in the article, then please point it out -- but DON'T just revert to a version of the page with clumsy awkward wording without offering any specific explanation here on the talk page, when I already specifically requested that such an explanation be provided in the edit summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yahshuah&diff=178334208&oldid=178296932

Since it was already shown last time around that I seem to possess a much sounder and more comprehensive knowledge of most aspects of linguistics, Biblical Hebrew, and ancient alphabets than you do, it's rather dubious whether you will be able to offer such valid objections -- but I'm always open to corrections from any source. Meanwhile, trying to bolster your relative ignorance of the actual subject-matter of the article with a cloud of technicalistic wiki-legalisms is unlikely to significantly advance your cause. Of course, I have no idea whatsoever what your cause actually IS in the context of this article, so maybe you could explain that first. AnonMoos (talk) 17:07, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I actually agree with what you have here, dude. I agree that there is no Hah at the end of יהושׁע. I just noticed you need references and you really do. We can work together to get the references which would go a long way to show our true intentions or you can just unilaterally remove all citations requesting citations and references. Now I admit that the occulting "origin" of יהושׁע seems a bit far fetched but lets work together perhaps you can show me the light, eh?--Teacherbrock (talk) 18:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

When did I remove any request for citations from this article? Certainly not in my Edit of 18:33, 16 December 2007 which you seem to have taken such objection to... Also, it's Yod-He-Shin-Waw-He (i.e. the Tetragrammaton Yod-He-Waw-He with Shin stuck in the middle) which originated from Renaissance Christian mystical and/or occult speculation, not Yod-He-Waw-Shin-`Ayin or Yod-Shin-Waw-`Ayin (which are both valid forms of an old Jewish name).

As for the necessity of references, yes, it would be nice if this article had references (as opposed to merely external links), but a lack of references is generally only critical to the existence of an article if the subject matter is rather disputed and controversial. I don't see how this article is really any more problematic than hundreds of thousands of other Wikipedia articles out there which are similarly lacking formal source citations. I could give references to standard Biblical Hebrew lexicons and concordances (such as Brown-Driver-Briggs etc. etc.), but if you don't possess the necessary background knowledge to use such works, then they wouldn't be any help to you at all -- while if you do have the knowledge to make use of them effectively, then you probably already know all about them... As for the occultistic and "Divine Name" side of things, you can turn up far more information than you probably want to know by simple Googling (or if you insist on "dead-tree" sources, you could peruse Israel Regardie's "Golden Dawn", and certain of the works of Eliphas Levi). AnonMoos (talk) 12:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Another quasi-occultistic graphic with Pentagrammaton

AnonMoos (talk) 21:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Yahshua-Yahshuah

See Talk:Yahshua#Merge regarding a proposal to merge the articles Yahshuah and Yahshua. --AuthorityTam (talk) 21:23, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe rename to Pentagrammaton?

In the article's current form, the name "Pentagrammaton" would probably make more sense... AnonMoos (talk) 14:49, 30 May 2017 (UTC)