Talk:UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar

Requested move 25 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:04, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

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UFC Fight Night: dos Santos vs. Volkov → UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar – Significant proof that UFC officials already changed the details of the main event on UFC.com Regice2020 (talk) 22:45, 25 October 2019 (UTC) Regice2020 (talk) 22:45, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

• Move - if the title really has been changed by the UFC, than moving the article should be a no brainier, especially because the Dos Santos vs Volkov fight isn't happening. Inter&anthro (talk) 05:40, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

• Move. UFC website has just updated the event name on their website - see here. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 07:28, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

• Move - concur with above statement Ppt1973 (talk) 17:59, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support I question slightly why a stand-alone article exists, but the rename appears non-controversial. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:13, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 13 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:11, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

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UFC Fight Night: Zabit vs. Kattar → UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar – UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar is the event name, the poster of the even is UFC Fight Night: Zabit vs. Kattar due to the size of the poster is not wide enough to house the last name " Magomedsharipov" - please see the UFC.com website [https://www.ufc.com/events HERE - Sun, Nov 10 / 3:00 AM +08 / Main Card CSKA Arena Moscow Russia   CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 06:56, 13 November 2019 (UTC) —Relisted. P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 04:44, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

• @Regice2020, CASSIOPEIA, and Power~enwiki: Better get this dispute sorted out properly. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:30, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. This is a confusing situation – name on poster is Magomedsharipov's given name, Zabit. Depending upon usage in independent, reliable secondary sources, the name on the poster, "Zabit", might be the COMMONNAME, which would override the OFFICIALNAME, "Magomedsharipov". So which name is the common name? Magomedsharipov or Zabit? P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 11:26, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

• Comment. The Wikipedia UFC event names (article name) have always based on UFC.com - see here List of UFC events (about 500 UFC event article in Wikipedia). The names use by UFC is normally the last name of the fighters who headline the event. Few occasions they use the nick name/first name of the of the fighters and in such occasions the Wikipedia UFC events name would reflect the same of what the UFC.com indicated. This particular event was listed as UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar and not UFC Fight Night: Zabit vs. Kattar - see HERE. The poster for this event was a vertical format and it is designed in the way that it was hard to house the last name of Zabit - "Magomedsharipov". Article name should reflect what is listed in UFC.com as it is the UFC event after all. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 12:37, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
  • With respect to you, CASSIOPEIA, here's the thing, several of the events listed on Wikipedia's list of UFC events are redirects. Perhaps there is a "2" after the event name, or maybe the link is to a section on a page. Those are reasons to have redirects. Now how confusing is it to readers to see one name on the poster and another name at the top of this article? Is it really that important to title the article with the official name when that same name redirects to the current title that is far less confusing to Wikipedia readers? P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 19:40, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. Thank you very much for facilitating this Anthony Appleyard. I'm glad that somebody has finally come to their senses after other editors stupidly decided to protect the page from being moved. It never warranted protection and could just be changed back whenever. P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there  as confusing as it might seem to you, Zabit Magomedsharipov is far better known and associated by UFC/MMA fans by his given name, Zabit, instead of Magomedsharipov, his last name. I know because I happen to be one (a UFC/MMA fan). The same also applies to his countryman Khabib Nurmagomedov, who is the current UFC Lightweight Champion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 29cwcst (talk • contribs) 23:16, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: "I'm glad that somebody has finally come to their senses after other editors stupidly decided to protect the page from being moved." You got some problem with those editors? I do not see any stupidly for following Wikipedia and MMAProject guidelines and directions? There something wrong with you or something. Regice2020 (talk) 03:12, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

To editor Regice2020: as you can see, that quote came from a different editor, not from me. Please be more careful about whom you decide to assume bad faith. Thank you for your concerns in this matter! P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 12:50, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

• Comment. Paine Ellsworth Greetings. There is how the UFC event is created in Wikipedia. (pls bear with me on some background info so I may answer you why redirect happened in all UFC event name pages in Wikipedia). When an event is announced by the press there is no event name mentioned as no one know, including the promoter, UFC, at the time the date and place is confirmed. The MMA media created a "numbering" for those events so the MMA community could abble to know when event when bouts are announced. So they create name such as uFC Fight Night 32, UFC Fight Night 55, UFC on Fox 3 and etc. We in Wikipedia will create the article based on the Media create names. Once the headliners are confirmed months later after the event is announced, then the actual name it will appear in UFC.com web site, then we move the page to new name as per UFC.com and leave the redirect intact. This happen in all UFC events/articles in Wikipedia except the flagship events (PPV event) such as UFC 244, UFC 230, UFC 198 and etc. Prior to 2019 UFC was aired in FOX channel, since 2019 UFC secured a 7 year contract with ESPN, the programs/event will be aired in ESPN and ESPN+ channel and PPV. This time around some media used UFC on ESPN+ 1, UFC on ESPN+ 5, UFC on ESPN 4, and a few use both UFC on ESPN+ XX and UFC Fight Night XXX names. Since 2019, we created the UFC event names as per sources "UFC on ESPN+ XX and UFC on ESPN when the events is announced by sources and create a redirect UFC Fight Night XXX as well) and same as before once the actual headliners and names apperar in UFC.com we moved the article to the new name. This article was original created under the name UFC on ESPN+ 21 - see here HERE. Do note both Zabit Magomedsharipov and Khabib Nurmagomedov are known more of their first and last name but it is a mouthful to say their last name, so sometimes media would choose to call them by first name. Further note at UFC 242 - UFC.com use Khabib instead of his last name for the Event name "Khabib vs. Poirier" instead of "Nurmagomedov vs. Poirier" but for for this event UFC choose the last name of Zabit " Magomedsharipov. vs. Kattar - see HERE. We have been for the last 500 articles of UFC event in Wikimedia name the events as per UFC.com for more than last 10 years as they name is the actual name of the events. A redirect of Zabit vs. Katter can redirect to the actual name Magomedshariov vs Kttar can be done if needed. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 04:07, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Thank you, Cassiopeia, for your detailed response. So it doesn't bother you that readers will come to this article titled UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar and see the poster that reads "Zabit vs. Kattar" and scratch their heads wondering what is going on? We are not here to confuse readers nor astonish them, are we? P. I. Ellsworth, ed. ^put'r there 19:26, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
  • It is about what the sourced event name we are talking about here, and same incident happened in the past before as the postal use the first name instead of last name due to the width of the postal which is different actual event name (use the last name of the fighter). If you type UFC on ESPN+ 21 or UFC Fight Night 163 they will still be redirect to this article. We could redirect UFC Fight Night:Zabit vs. Kattar to UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 19:40, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. As stated above, there is every reason to accept that the event title on the poster is the WP:COMMONNAME. Plus, having one name on the poster and a different name titling the article is confusing, and to confuse and astonish readers is far from the goal of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. See also: our article titling policy WP:CRITERIA, especially Precision and Recognizability. P. I. Ellsworth, ed.  ^put'r there 06:56, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
• Comment Poster is to the Commonname but the actual event name as per organisation site and as per sources. Thant is well record in sources and it has been done this way in Wikipedia more than 10 years. Previously message "Requested move 25 October 2019" of the move had been supported by 2 other longtime regular MMA editors. A redirect always can be made for viewer to search for alternative names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CASSIOPEIA (talk • contribs) 07:00, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose as per User:Paine Ellsworth.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:40, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
• Support Following WP:RS as UFC Wikipedia been doing for decade. It understandable that there are ufc fans are unhappy that their personal opinion is not part Wikipedia. Since UFC.com event page (UFC FIGHT NIGHT MAGOMEDSHARIPOV VS KATTAR) has not been changed. (https://www.ufc.com/event/ufc-fight-night-november-9-2019_ I have no choice to support it and follow the same result from the earlier Requested move 25 October 2019. This "Requested move 13 November 2019" should not be necessary and whoever started this change it to Zabit vs Kattar is very disruptive. Calls for possible ANI to review the individual involved. Regice2020 (talk) 00:09, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose mostly per Paine. Seems to be the common name for the event, and given the choice between the two titles, Zabit is also more WP:CONCISE. I don't find arguments about what UFC.com calls it compelling for the reasons at WP:OFFICIALNAME. Wug·a·po·des​ 06:51, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Revert the move

As I said at ANI, Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Anthony Appleyard jumped the gun by moving page, the move should be reverted. It was an undiscussed move and quickly disputed. It should have been reverted, while the discussion took place. The fact this didn't happen is unfortunate. However the RM just closed a few days ago as no consensus. So the new title cannot be considered stable, so we revert to the last thing which was a somewhat stable title and which did have consensus at the time i.e. UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar. We shouldn't penalise those opposed to the undiscussed move simply because they chose to hope that consensus would be achieved one way or other in the RM rather than fight to revert to the older title. Can someone give me a good reason not to revert? Note that I don't give a fuck either way what the title is, other than a strong belief that it's harmful to Wikipedia if we give the edge to those who make changes without discussion when those changes are quickly disputed and ultimately there is no consensus. This is particularly the case in RM cases where it's clear that in the even of dispute, undiscussed moves should be reverted unless there is consensus for the move. Nil Einne (talk) 12:48, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Notability issues under UFC Fight Night: Zabit vs. Kattar event name

I can`t any evidence under the main ufc.com/events source source that supports the current name.Regice2020 (talk) 00:29, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Its literally on all of the advertising. https://twitter.com/ufc/status/1159137512838664192 - was originally Fight Night: Volkov v Smith. And fight nights have long been put on wikipedia as "Fight night: " and then name of headliner. This is well established. And a notability tag? bizarre use of that particular tag. obviously the event is notable. Dimspace (talk) 20:21, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

UFC did not change the event name. Its been more than 1 month and still no event name has been changed by the ufc.com sources we used for many years to determinate the event name. The event name on Wikipedia went from a "stable"event name to "not stable" event name. Someone tried to change name similar what the group wanted (but reverted back to confirmed name - UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar ) before all this happen. Edv Whether this change to unstable name was directed or not..the event name is not stable. Regice2020 (talk) 02:25, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Resolved

Due to name change back to being normal. There no longer any issues. Regice2020 (talk) 00:06, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 1 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to move (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 22:58, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

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UFC Fight Night: Zabit vs. Kattar → UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar – UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar [1] is the sourced event name. Its been 3 months nothing came forward, so i here to announce the event name change back to double confirmed event name from Oct 25, 2019 consensus. @Inter&anthro:, @CASSIOPEIA: and @Ppt1973: made it pretty clear. A consensus that actually happen. Regice2020 (talk) 01:48, 1 February 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BegbertBiggs (talk) 21:56, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

• Support - Per norm. This is the event name and it should name as such. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 02:58, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. Support. This should be squished because, as I noted back in November, 2019, the name of the event as seen on the poster is the COMMONNAME that readers will be hoping to reach. This is clearly an instance where COMMONNAME overrides and overwhelms OFFICIALNAME. I also cited CRITERIA which is just as valid now as it was three months ago. That was a no-consensus result and there is no new argument here, so this move request should be closed as quickly as possible and the title should stay as is. Changing to support due to compelling args below. PI Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 20:30, 19 February 2020 (UTC) 07:21, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
• Comment @Paine Ellsworth:

1. The page was moved to Zabit vs Kattar without discussion, and was successfully sneaked up by a technical move by a disruptive user. There no discussion on this page to have it move to Zabit vs Kattar. The only option see here is revert it back to one that actually had a RM, because of that this article should be speedy move back to original RM`d regardless.

unsigned comment added by Regice2020 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

• @Regice2020: Yes, I participated in the previous move request and so I know the history. For reasons previously stated I continue to oppose any proposal to move this article away from its present title. And just FYI, your ping didn't work because you used "User:Paine Ellsworth" (you should have used only my name, "Paine Ellsworth"... see how I used the ping template to ping you). PI Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 04:26, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

# The "name seen on the poster is COMMONNAME" wasn`t valid for reasons. Regice2020 (talk) 04:35, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Per OTHERSTUFF, it's apples and oranges. In this article, the name of the event on the poster is what readers expect to see as the title of this article. It is the COMMONNAME. PI Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 08:10, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Per UFC 246 RM Request - the Commonname was not the valid and event name cant be based on poster. Besides the RM Discussion to Zabit vs Kattar never happened on this page and the only option is revert (Speedy Move)it back to primary scored event name Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar. @Nil Einne: did not see any RM to have it changed to Zabit vs Kattar on this page? Regice2020 (talk) 01:32, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

As per COMMON - The name of event UFC Fight Night: Magomedsharipov vs. Kattar showed as per sources below

'* UFC website (the organizer/promoter) - [1] (Pls click "load more" button and look for MAGOMEDSHARIPOV VS KATTAR, Sun, Nov 10 / 6:00 AM AEDT / Main Card, CSKA Arena, Moscow, Moskva, Russia)

'* From press - ESPN , (arguably the biggest sport TV channel/news in the world), Cageside Press, BJ Penn.com, Combat Press (Arguably the biggest MMA site in South America), MMA Fighting (One of the top 3 MMA coverage site in the word), Fight News Australia (The biggest Oceanic Region MMMA site), Sport Skeeda, The Sport Daily, MMAtion, Beton Combat and etc.

'* MMA Fighters and Events Database Sites - Sherdog (The biggest MMA Fight records in the world), Tapology (The second biggest MMA fight records in the world).

'* Sport betting sites - Sport Betting Dime, My Top Sport Books, MY Top Sport Books and etc.

'* Wikipedia uses the UFC website event name since day one (2006 for total 510 events - to date) - see List of UFC events and the only request for name moved was this one which was [requested by a banned editor. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 03:52, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Okay, that's some pretty great research, CASSIOPEIA, so changing to support. PI Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 07:19, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Paine Ellsworth Greetings. Thank you very much for supporting the change. Truly appreciate it. Best. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 08:42, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Pleasure! Paine  

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sources for the alternative event name

To editor Regice2020: you must know that there are several sources for the alternative name "Zabit vs. Kattar". One example would be ESPN Press Room, and there are several other sources, which include the UFC website. So it puzzles me that you would add the {{Citation needed}} template, especially when the alternative name, Zabit vs. Kattar, is emblazoned across the poster in the infobox? So pick a source if you really think a source is needed and include it. Perhaps the ESPN Press Room page would do? PI Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 03:58, 28 February 2020 (UTC)