Talk:Timeline of women's ordination

Requested move 26 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 16:57, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

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Timeline of women's religious ordination → Timeline of women's ordination – There is no reason to specify "religious" in the article title, since "ordination" unambiguously refers to clerical ordination by religious bodies; furthermore it is an error to refer to "religious" in the context of the Catholic Church when not referring to institutes or orders of consecrated religious people. Elizium23 (talk) 15:34, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose per OED "ordination" does not "unambiguously refer to clerical ordination by religious bodies", that is only one of eight meanings listed. Also I do not think we should privilege the usage of the Roman Catholic church over everyday English, or the usages of other sects. DuncanHill (talk) 16:13, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

  I'm not suggesting privilege, I'm just saying that if you're gonna have an article that specifically discusses Christian doctrine, canonical aspects, and Roman Catholicism, it's gonna be confusing to people familiar with that terminology that is more precise than colloquial usage. I'm sorry you don't see a problem with that. Elizium23 (talk) 16:15, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

  The use of religious as a noun (by the way shared with Lutherans and Anglicans) is not at all common. The context here makes confusion highly unlikely, especially if readers can actually be bothered to read the first sentence. Of course, anyone not reading the article might be confused if they were unaware of the everyday usage of the word "religious", but I think we can take that chance. We are a general encyclopaedia, written for the general reader. DuncanHill (talk) 16:22, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

• Weak support: I don't know what the OED says, but when I look up ordination, the principal meaning and usage that I find is about religious ordination. Also, the context makes it clear that this is about the ordaining of people, and I have not seen any identification of other notable topics that the proposed title might be ambiguous with. The Wikipedia article about Ordination is about religious ordination, and Ordination (disambiguation) does not reveal any confusion. As far as I can tell, there has not been a strong need to clarify that, since Religious ordination is a red link! I don't understand some of the other commentary about the word religious, but the title seems more WP:CONCISE and less redundant without it, so I support removing it. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:20, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per BarrelProof. And I'm not sure what the other seven meanings are, but I doubt few, if any, can be meaningfully prefixed by "women's". For example, it could refer to predestination (another religious meaning!) but theologians don't talk much about how God predestines women as well as men. StAnselm (talk) 04:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Eccekevin (talk) 03:46, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support - I worked on the list and chose the name. There was formerly a list called Timeline of Women's Ordination that had been deleted, because of copy vio. I created a new list with a new name. I thought the specificity would be helpful but am fine with the simpler list name. Ordination can refer to a statistical method but is more commonly known for its religious connotation. - PMCH2 (talk) 01:01, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Contradiction

Who was first? “19th century “1815: Clarissa Danforth was ordained in New England. She was the first woman ordained by the Free Will Baptist denomination. “1853: Antoinette Brown Blackwell was the first woman ordained as a minister in the United States. She was ordained by a church belonging to the Congregationalist Church. However, her ordination was not recognized by the denomination. She later quit the church and became a Unitarian. The Congregationalists later merged with others to create the United Church of Christ, which ordains women.” NewBluePencil (talk) 14:42, 14 January 2024 (UTC)