Talk:Sibbesborg

Renaming the article

Users willing to rename the article, kindly discuss the matter on the talk page first. --Drieakko 03:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The reason for me to object renaming this article to "Sipoo Castle" is the fact that no such name is used anywhere (even Google gives zero hits). All mainstream maps use the name "Sibbesborg" for the castle, see e.g. http://kartat.eniro.fi or http://www.keltaisetsivut.fi. If the article should be renamed, the possible name would be "Sibbesborg Castle", in line with "Raseborg Castle" or "Stenberga Castle". --Drieakko 05:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

You might want to see fiwiki discussion why it was changed to Sipoonlinna. fi:Keskustelu:Sipoonlinna. The persons who did not agree with Sipoonlinna eventually supported it. But since it's only a ruin site, I now then agree it should be on name Sibbesborg which it is known. (Although Sipoo has a Finnish-speaking majority now). "Sibbesborg Castle" might be problematic, what about Olavinlinna or Suomenlinna? Should they be Olavinlinna Castle.. Note that World Heritage List recognizes it as Fortress of Suomenlinna (not Sveaborg etc.).--Pudeo (Talk) 11:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. However, the discussion there is not very convincing. The name is not "Sibbosborg" like some of the users there seem to think, and "Sibbesborg" does not translate to "Sipoo Castle" (or Sipoonlinna), which seems to be a very late, unnecessary and unsuccessful translation attempt by someone unknown. The origin of the name Sibbesborg is obscure, and it might just as well be or not to be the original name of the late castle. --Drieakko 14:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

For the names in general, preferably just use the National Board of Antiquities as the authority. About Sibbesborg still, the castle was long gone and entirely ruined before the Finnish name was even made up yet. Forcing translations for names of places that are not existing any more is pointless nationalism. --Drieakko 14:40, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Sibbesborg is the correct name in English (just like Raseborg Castle, in Ekenäs). Renaming the article because some Fennomans have problems with it would be stupid. --213.186.239.81 18:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

You are saying Research Institute for the Languages of Finland are fennomans and having problems with this? What a sad life we have. Anyway - as I said this is acceptable name in English for a ruin. Because it was the only castle in Sipoo, it could be called Sipoo Castle. Raseborg castle is a different issue, Ekenäs and the up-coming City of Raseborg will have a Swedish-speaking majority.--Pudeo (Talk) 20:02, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Raseborg Castle isn't Raseborg Castle because of the language of the majority in Ekenäs. Its name is Raseborg in English because of historical reasons. The same goes with Sibbesborg --213.186.239.81 22:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense, historical reasons do not determine names of sites which are still actively used as national monuments. But I agree that the established name of this site is Sibbesborg.--91.155.58.34 (talk) 06:32, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

About Sipoonlinna again

User:Inzulac, commenting your edits. The name "Sipoonlinna" is not the official Finnish name of the late castle. That name has a few years ago appeared in some contexts, but all professional Finnish language litterature about the long-gone castle uses the name "Sibbesborg". IMHO, trying to establish a new name for a castle that hasn't existed for centuries, is not very meaningful, --Drieakko 13:43, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Any references which could support that? --Inzulac 13:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

To get your references, please see ANY book or professional article on medieval Finnish castles.--130.234.75.229 13:59, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Sipoonlinna isnt castle anymore and I think that its more older than medieval castle. There isnt no reference that castle is built by swedish. --Inzulac 14:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that it is pre-medieval. All medieval castles in Finland are "built by Swedish" - but that is irrelevant. The original name of this undocumented castle is not known, but the folkloristic name Sibbesborg is the name used in professional literature and by National Heritage administration. --130.234.75.229 14:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Go to [1] and search for "sibbesborg" and then "sipoonlinna". --Drieakko 14:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)