Talk:Russian Guards

Ukrainian Guards

Anyone know if Ukraine's military retained the Guards status from the Soviet Union? —Michael Z. 2007-08-27 18:40 Z

Yes. Check user:Ceriy's articles. Buckshot06 22:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

They did retain Guards designation. Heres an incomplete list of units List of guards units of Ukraine Ceriy 03:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Renaming

Guards units in the USSR were not "Russian Guards". Should this article be renamed Guards unit or something? —Michael Z. 2007-08-27 18:48 Z

No, I think the article should be splited, by creating a new "Soviet Guards" page. --Eurocopter tigre 20:13, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Shall I split the current article into Soviet Guards and List of Russian Guards units? —Michael Z. 2007-08-29 01:04 Z

I actually think Soviet Guards it's enough. --Eurocopter tigre 15:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

No, because the guards designation is used in the former Soviet Union, as well as Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine, and possibly other post-Soviet republics. The Soviet Union section here should be split off into a new article Guards unit. —Michael Z. 2007-10-23 21:32 Z

Guards unit can be confused with all kinds of things. I suggest something like 'Soviet and post-Soviet states military Guards designation'. Buckshot06 22:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be a problem, since there was not a single link to Guards unit. There are various guards (n. pl.) or guard (s. adj.) units, but what else is referred to as a guards (pl. adj.) unit?

But do you prefer renaming or re-merging the article with this one? Can we remove the merge tag?

This article was a mess,[1] with random information belonging to several other articles or on its own, and should probably now be turned into a disambiguation page, unless there is some more cogent thread to be drawn between the various kinds of things called "guard" or "guards" in Russia. Should we also add the following?:

• Druzhina, the Knyaz's bodyguard
• Streltsy, referred to as "Russian guardsmen"
• Internal Troops ("Internal Guard")
• USSR Border Troops ("Border Guards")
• Ninth Chief Directorate of the USSR, responsible for bodyguarding, which later became the FPSR:
• Federal Protective Service of Russia responsible for bodyguarding, which includes
  • Border Guard Service of Russia
  • Kremlin Regiment (Presidential Guard)

 —Michael Z. 2007-10-23 23:00 Z

[moved discussion from user talk:Mzajac#Guards unit —MZ]

Having looked at this, this is good, with the only real problem being the title. I really believe this should have a state indication on it. Soviet & FSU Guards units? Buckshot06 20:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that adding a state indication would be a good thing, if it didn't become something awkward or unwieldy. Soviet and former Soviet Union Guards unit is a bit wordy, and possibly confusing. Maybe Guards unit (Soviet and post-Soviet)?

Leaving it as is wouldn't be completely unacceptable, as there are precedents in the British Guards Division/Guards Division (disambiguation) and Napoleonic Imperial Guard/Imperial Guard (disambiguation).

Looking at the article, the identity is clear from the first line. Disambiguation isn't technically necessary I think. The Commonwealth Foot Guards for example, are generally "regiments of guards" rather than "guards regiments", although the adjective is used sometimes, for example the higher administrative formations, the Guards Division, or the Guards Armoured Division. Also, Wikipedia is already using the broader Category:Guards Regiments (shouldn't that be "Guard regiments"?).

Incidentally, there is quite a list of related disambiguation pages on what is at root a similar concept, most of them linked from List of army units called Guards.

• Imperial Guard (disambiguation)
• Republican Guard (disambiguation)
• Royal Guard (disambiguation)
• National Guard (disambiguation)
• Household Division

I'd like to look over the disambiguation guidelines and think on this a bit. —Michael Z. 2007-10-24 21:52 Z

Merge into Guards unit

This article Russian Guards is all over the place. It currently covers Soviet guards units extensively, more than it should. It's almost doing what its parent article (Guards unit) should be doing, but is not doing. As just one of the several topics that are under the broader subject of Guards unit, I suggest that it be merged into Guards unit. Alternatively, Guards unit could get expanded to cover what it should cover (i.e. the various kinds of units out there that are called "guards"), and this article gets reduced to what it should concern itself with. And if needed (and probably is), a third article for Soviet Guards unit should be created. After all, Ukrainian Guards units already have theirs, albeit a list. EyeTruth (talk) 08:08, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

I took a closer look at this issue and realized that it's harder to do the above suggestion (i.e. creating a third article for Soviet guards unit). If that is done, the article Guards unit will become almost empty as it covers almost exclusively just Soviet guards units. There have been just too many kinds of units that got designated as "guards" or an equivalent status, and there are already a plethora of WP articles covering these various kinds of guards units: E.g. British Guards Armoured Division, Prussian Guards, Moroccan Black Guard, and dozens more. The article "Guards unit" should be trying to cover the entire subject of guards unit, but the current form of the article is not even close to doing that, and it will take a HUGE amount of effort to make it cover what it should be covering. The easiest way to clean up this issue is to rename "Guards units" to "Soviet guards unit" and then delete the now empty "Guards units" article, and also reduce the extensive coverage of Soviet guards unit in the article "Russian guards" to just a summary. But the better way is still to create "Soviet guards unit" and move all excess information on the subject in "Russian guards" and "Guards unit" to the new article, so that "Guards unit" can focus on the overarching concept. Any opinions? EyeTruth (talk) 03:04, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

@EyeTruth: Sure, your proposal on Soviet guards units seems fine. However, I think a list of Soviet guards units would be very impractical and substantially duplicative of existing lists that include Gaurds units because there were hundreds of divisions and regiments, dozens of corps and armies, and numerous ships that were made "Guards".Kges1901 (talk) 14:56, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Don't Merge Best to improve both articles, and instead just have a brief line or two about guards units in the Soviet era in the Russian Guards article.--PlanespotterA320 (talk) 02:02, 6 February 2018 (UTC)