Talk:Rocky King Detective

Implicit comma

[The discussion below is transferred from User talk:Roman Spinner#Implicit comma for historical record relating to this subject, as well as a point of reference for any potential future discussion(s) relating to title header form]:

Back in July, you moved Rocky King, Inside Detective to Rocky King detective, saying "as confirmed by existing episodes (a number of which are on YouTube"). I have seen the title credits at https://archive.org/details/Rocky_King_Detective and completely agree that around the five-second mark the title credits appear completely lacking the word "Inside." But I would suggest that the article's title should be Rocky King, Detective. On-screen titles are sometimes stylized in ways that are not literally part of the title when mention in print. If we were being literal, the show's title would be

• ROCKY KING     detective, that is, with ALL CAPS for the name and some extra space between the name and "detective", reflecting the space seen on screen;

If I got really OCD about this, I would also the title tilted to the left about 25 degrees, like it is on the screen.

Consider Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman: as seen at File:Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman.jpg, the title as rendered on the DVD cover lacks a comma, yet the article includes the comma.

This is my case based on my understand of WP:TITLEFORMAT. I'm thinking of proposing that we move the article to Rocky King, Detective; what do you think? 72.244.200.40 (talk) 01:04, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree with your observations and regret not having considered the orthographic implication of the lowercase "d" as the initial letter of the noun "Detective" within the title, particularly and ironically in view of the fact that, just five minutes ago, I submitted another in a continuing series of arguments in favor of the use of uppercase "W" in the currently ongoing discussion regarding the move of another title, A Boy was Born → A Boy Was Born, at Talk:A Boy was Born.

The comma in Rocky King Detective (Rocky King, Detective), same as in Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman (Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman) however, is a problematic matter. Although stylistically and esthetically, the comma is warranted to set off "Detective" and "Medicine Woman", it does not appear on-screen in either case and, therefore, is not part of the title. According to your own section header, the comma is implicit, rather than explicit, and I am loath to insert or remove any punctuation which does not appear on-screen. In order to fulfill at least one portion of your comment, as well as comply with the Manual of Style regarding title capitalization, I will move Rocky King detective to Rocky King Detective, leaving the question of the comma in the title to be decided in a possible WP:RM discussion. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 04:24, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I declined your speedy deletion request for Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman, as it may be a controversial rename. Using a google search,[1] there are a lot of reliable sources that seem to use the comma. If you go to the show's official web site http://www.drquinnmd.com/ and scroll to the actual text at the bottom of the page, it uses the comma:

DR. QUINN, MEDICINE WOMAN, a high-spirited, hour-long Western family adventure series from The Sullivan Company and CBS Entertainment Productions, is built around the exploits of Dr. Michaela ("Mike") Quinn...

After reading your comments here on your talk page and your edit summaries, I disagree with your conclusions. Just because it "does not appear on screen" may not always be correct. Some TV shows these days seem to being using what is similar to stylized text logos in their opening credits and title sequences. The actual title, with the correct spelling and punctuation, should appear in various text articles, press releases, and other pieces from reliable sources. The link from the official web site I just linked may be one such example. However, if you disagree, you are welcome to post on WP:RM. Cheers. Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:38, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I've got some more examples of comma use: Inch High, Private Eye (compare File:Inch High Private Eye logo.jpg), Philip Marlowe, Private Eye (compare File:Philip Marlowe, Private Eye S1.jpg), Ace Crawford, Private Eye, Richard Diamond, Private Detective, Martin Kane, Private Eye, Mike Hammer, Private Eye, Pete Boone, Private Eye (and that's just the private eyes).

Sometimes colons are used: Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective (compare File:Ghost Trick Phantom Detective cover art.jpg), Tom Sawyer, Detective (compare File:Tom Sawyer, Detective (novel).jpg), and Dan Turner, Hollywood Detective (compare File:Highadv60.jpg).

I think these examples establish that punctuation is routinely included in titles, regardless of the stylized renderings in cover art and opening credits. 72.244.200.40 (talk) 08:31, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

One size most definitely does not fit all in situations where on-screen (as well as within video games and books) punctuation of titles is concerned (also addition of exclamation points) and they all must be considered on a case-by-case basis. I found so much inconsistency, however, that it only reaffirmed my conviction that the guideline for punctuation in titles should be based upon what appears on-screen. Stylized capitalization of individual words within the title of a work is, of course, a different matter, since capitalization has to be consistent and is guided by the Manual of Style.

As for the individual titles mentioned above, none of their articles' talk pages has a consensus-building discussion regarding specifics of main header punctuation, thus leaving the decision to the discretion of individual editors and to a potential subsequent discussion. Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman has no comma in its on-screen opening credits, on the DVD box set and on the three logos depicted on the show's website. The website's descriptive text, however, as quoted above, does insert a comma within the title, creating an obvious inconsistency which may come to some type of resolution at WP:RM. Among the "Private Eye" series, Ace Crawford, Private Eye and Martin Kane, Private Eye do contain on-screen commas, while Inch High, Private Eye, Richard Diamond, Private Detective and Philip Marlowe, Private Eye do not. I could not find opening credits for Pete Boone, Private Eye.

As for the other titles, Ace Ventura: Pet Detective does have an on-screen colon, but the video game Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective does not. When published in a magazine, Tom Sawyer, Detective did not contain a comma in the title, but the book edition and the 1938 film version do have a comma. In such a case, the book edition (available at Project Gutenberg) is presumed to take precedence over magazine installments. Finally, "Dan Turner, Hollywood Detective" was a judgment call for that article's creator. The book cover does not have a comma, so the article title probably shouldn't have a comma either, but since that is not the title of the book, but rather the name of the hero/protagonist, the comma at least provides a bit of esthetic clarity. There are obviously other examples, but sufficient for the moment… —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 12:35, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

"Inside" out?

big section above notwithstanding, various articles claim it had "Inside" in the name in the EARLY years, only losing it later on. if there's a consensus on this here, it should be in the article. right now it looks particularly silly with the page titled "Rocky King Detective" (with or WITHOUT a comma...), while the entire article and photo uses "Rocky King, INSIDE Detective" instead!

while we're at it, what the heck is an "inside detective" anyway?! i've never heard the term, and can find nothing on google supporting it. most of the hits are for Inside Detective MAGAZINE, which seems different usage-wise to me. unless the show somehow grew out of their stories, i just don't see what the "inside" in his title is supposed to mean.

my best guess is that it's an alternate or british term for what we'd normally call a "house" detective, but i can't find anything to back up that idea. and having not SEEN the show, i dunno if it would even apply.

anyone? 209.172.23.50 (talk) 03:30, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Near the beginning of The Hermit's Cat Rocky tells his wife that a member of the force "wants to go back to work on the inside." When his wife mentions she thought he hated that job Rocky replied the man "changed his mind after missing a few ball games." Alas, no more was said about someone wanting to "work on the inside." If more Rocky King episodes were available for viewing I might glean a few clues about what an inside detective is or was. Karenthewriter (talk) 20:10, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Major Rewrite

I did a major rewrite of this article, for I felt there were many problems. There was a Bibliography section, but no references within the article. Someone wrote that Rocky King was chief of homicide of Manhattan’s 24th Police Precinct, but anyone who’s viewed an episode (several are on YouTube) has heard the announcer state Rocky is with a Metropolitan Police Force. I found a reference that printed the opening announcement.

There were also parts that didn’t seem to fit into an encyclopedia article. I removed this paragraph:

The kinescopes for the four episodes released to DVD originate courtesy of Satellite Media Production. These episodes have been screened at the non-profit Mid-Atlantic Nostalgia Convention held annually in Aberdeen, Maryland. The same four episodes were released to DVD on November 21, 2006, altered with a company logo superimposed on the screen and sound effects added to the soundtrack in an attempt to claim copyright. The Satellite Media Production release contained no alterations. (End of deleted paragraph.)

I’m sure a lot of public domain TV episodes are screened at Nostalgia Conventions, and I don’t feel it’s relevant to state a company attempted to claim copyright — especially when no reference is given to back up the claim.

I did my best to improve the article, and hope that others come forward to further improve and expand Rocky King Detective.Karenthewriter (talk) 03:15, 16 November 2020 (UTC)