Talk:Robert Whittaker (fighter)

Tedious edits regarding nationality

Please can a consensus be reached on RW's nationality? These edit wars are irritating and pointless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NEDOCHAN (talk • contribs) 09:54, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

See the clips here. Whitaker - in his words on his nationality.

{1)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X74OEass1Q (2)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_cjeVBM1Eo CASSIOPEIA (talk) 07:41, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Does this need protected status?

There seems to be a lot of vandalism on this page. Doesn't appear to be dissipating. Should it be protected?NEDOCHAN (talk) 16:37, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

He's not UFC champ anymore

The new champ is Israel Adessanya for the bottom sandboxGaby4430 (talk) 18:04, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Gaby4430 Done. Cassiopeia^(talk) 23:14, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Ethnicity

It's noted his father is "Australian" while his mother is of Maori and Samoan descent. Australian isn't an ethnicity, it denotes a nationality. His father's ethnicity should be noted as "an Australian of Caucasian descent" or similar. Redazzo (talk) 09:00, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Redazzo Done. Cassiopeia^(talk) 23:14, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 20 September 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved  — Amakuru (talk) 09:55, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

---

Robert Whittaker (fighter) → Robert Whittaker – The fighter is the primary topic, averaging 2500+ views a day - https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Robert_Whittaker_(fighter) Marty2Hotty (talk) 06:55, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. The original request included a second move of Robert Whittaker, which is a redirect. We do not move redirects. It's generally bad form to usurp primary-topic status for a misspelling when other notable people have articles with that spelling. So I don't see the need to move the disambiguation Robert Whitaker. Might best hold off on that until the first request is settled. – wbm1058 (talk) 20:26, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
• Leaning no. Yes, he dominates in current views, with Robert Whittaker (ecologist) a distant second. However, the ecologist was the first to propose the five kingdom taxonomic classification of the world's biota into the Animalia, Plantae, Fungi, Protista, and Monera in 1969 – which in my view imparts long-term significance. Convince me that in twenty years he is likely to do much better on page views than Dave Menne (compare) – wbm1058 (talk) 20:41, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
  • The objective is to get people searching to the person they are most likely looking for. Right now and probably in the future, the fighter is the one people are looking for. The views over the past few years overwhelmingly dominate the others. Marty2Hotty (talk) 13:17, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. No primary topic. Pure WP:RECENTISM. Currently active sports figures will always win in the pageview stakes, but not in the long-term significance stakes. However, Robert Whitaker should be moved to Robert Whittaker, as most of the people on the list have that spelling. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pay-Per-View Bouts

Requesting to make a table with all of Robert Whittaker's PPV bouts. Only included bouts with him headlining.

UFC 213 Romero vs. Whittaker - 130,000 buys - July 8 2017 https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/events/44083-ufc-213

UFC 225 Romero vs. Whittaker 2 - 250,000 - June 9 2018 https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/events/50751-ufc-225 Scottboss1235 (talk) 16:29, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Whittaker's nationality

Playdoughboy (talk) has continuously edit warred to add a part in the introduction about Whittaker being an Australian and New Zealand MMA fighter, even though Cassiopeia (talk) has highlighted sources pertaining to Whittaker mentioning himself about being an Australian MMA fighter and citizen, and that the sources in the early life section mentioned that he was only born there, and moved to Australia when he was a month old, where he lives currently and represents in his MMA career.

Furthermore, I have mentioned that Whittaker's case isn't similar to Adesanya and Usman's cases, as both were born and currently reside in different countries (New Zealand and USA respectively) but both represent Nigeria in MMA competition, hence it makes sense to put them as "first country and Nigeria" fighter in the introduction. This isn't the case for Whittaker as he mentions his Maori and NZ roots, but that he is patriotic and represents Australia in his MMA career. Can this be addressed? As I recommend putting an invisible note next to the nationality in the introduction (similar to Kyrie Irving) to prevent these changes from continuously taking place. SpyroeBM (talk) 20:43, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Whittaker himself said he represents new zealand as a mixed martial artist. You seem to have a very extensive edit history with changing "australian" athletes wiki pages with edit wars. SpyroBm needs to be reported for harmful edits and misinformation. Playdoughboy (talk) 20:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm going to assume you are trolling, as your mention about misinformation clearly is further from the truth, as I am only sticking to what the majority of sources has mentioned, and that the only source you mention is the same Guardian source even though it mentions him only being New Zealand born. Also to address you point about me changing "Australian" athletes pages, can you provide any proof to this claim, as I would be willing to go over the reasoning behind those changes, granted that you can form a proper argument for your case rather than regurgitating the same article and text. SpyroeBM (talk) 21:06, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Cassiopeia, @Sdpdude9, @Gsfelipe94, @KyleBYerrick, @Rcpilot9, @Ikamborden, your opinion on the matter as senior editors of MMA wikipedia would be greatly appreciated. SpyroeBM (talk) 21:15, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Whittaker himself states he represents new zealand as an mma fighter. So it's factual to add both. Stop defacing the wiki page Playdoughboy (talk) 21:29, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Also if you are born in new zealand you are automatically a new zealand citizen. Its been confirmed he was born in new zealand hence legally he has new zealand citizenship. Playdoughboy (talk) 21:42, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Although it is true that Whittaker was born in New Zealand, the article is about Robert Whittaker the fighter, meaning information regarding Whittaker should focus on aspects regarding his MMA career. He was ONLY BORN in New Zealand to an Australian father and a New Zealander mother, he has not officially represented New Zealand in MMA competition at all on paper and throughout his life, he has trained in gyms located in Sydney. In notable competitions such as the Ultimate Fighter and in the UFC currently, he represents the Australian flag as an Australian subject. Furthermore, the sources by GQ Australia and video sources linked by Cassiopeia in the talk page clarifies Whittaker's position surrounding his nationality, that being an Australian citizen as he has mentioned that he has an Australian passport.

For the second time, the article you have linked has no mention of him being a New Zealand passport holder, as it states he is "Kiwi-born", the article is written as context to the Adesanya and Whittaker competition being an Australian vs. New Zealand affair, which Whittaker clariifies that he was only born in New Zealand but he was raised in Australia. Furthermore, he talks about that the idea of the competition shouldn't boil down to nationality, as he is all for promoting New Zealand martial arts generally as a whole, even specifying that he "embraces his Kiwi roots" to help the NZ mixed martials as it's own entity, which doesn't concretely transfer as him being a New Zealand national in reference to his MMA career. As far as I am concerned, no one is judging his possible status as a New Zealand citizen, however the nationality part of the introuction should in my opinion represent the country he states he aligns with, as it can't contain "New Zealand-born" due to the term breaking WP:CONTEXTBIO guidelines.

Throughout this whole discussion, you have not provided any proof of him representing New Zealand officially in MMA competition or mention that he has a New Zealand passport at all, you are just using that source to make unproven interpretations of whether him being a New Zealand citizen is true or not. Based on the myriad of sources surrounding the subject, it is safe to assume that as an Australian passport holder, a resident of Australia, and that he trains in Sydney and identifies as an Australian, the introduction should only contain him being an Australian mixed martial artist, and that any information about his New Zealand roots should be saved for the early and personal life section. To clarify my position, I have made the reversions and edits based of the sources given in the article about him mostlty representing Australia, and I once again welcome open discussion of the subject by other MMA editors, as clearly you resort to just linking a basic explanation of the article with no factual input and baseless accusing of me edit warring, which in my opinion is furthest from the truth. SpyroeBM (talk) 11:17, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Theres plenty sources that state Whittaker himself claiming he represents both countries as a martial artist. Do they both should be displayed, plain and simple. It is correct to display both. Whats incorrect is claiming he just represents Australia when he's clearly stated he represents both. Playdoughboy (talk) 00:47, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

SpyroeBM has edit warred

Whittaker himself has stated he represents new zealand as a mixed martial artist "definitely don't see it as New Zealand versus Australia, what I do see it as is a great time for New Zealand mixed martial arts – to have all the spotlight on two guys that represent the country.." keeping in line with the terms of use.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/ufc-robert-whittaker-excited-to-put-new-zealand-mma-in-spotlight-in-title-unification-bout-against-israel-adesanya/ELPGAWPILFZPYKBT32XTPF5VMQ/ Playdoughboy (talk) 20:50, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

With all due respect it cleary states in the article he represents new zealand as a martial artist alongside israel Adesanya. Thus staying in line with terms of use. Playdoughboy (talk) 21:05, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

With all due respect, this is a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black, as clearly you haven't bothered to form any other reasoning that linking that same article for your argument which mentions him only being New Zealand-born. It does not mention him having New Zealand citizenship, but that he has New Zealand roots and wants to promote martial arts in New Zealand. I have already mentioned in the previous reversions, the talk page entry above, and that this matter has been concluded 5 years ago regarding my reasoning for keeping him as an Australian mixed martial artist, so it would be better to garner opinions about this matter to concisively conclude this matter. SpyroeBM (talk) 21:07, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

if you are born in new zealand you have new zealand citizenship automatically. Its be confirmed he was born in nz hence he's a new zealand citizen. If anything he wouldn't have an Australian citizenship. Playdoughboy (talk) 22:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

You can't be serious right? "If anything he wouldn't have an Australian citizenship", how can you confidently say that knowing the article states that in the Representing both Australia and New Zealand section that "he declared that he had an Australian passport but added that he felt as if he represented both countries as an MMA fighter." The source states only that he is an Australian national, but because he was only born in New Zealand and has Maori roots he feels that he represents both. The key information is that he has an AUSTRALIAN PASSPORT, he mentions representing both based on the fact that he was born there only. Also, using nationality law regarding the nature of the article is irrelevant, as it is not sourced that he is an official New Zealand subject. How many times do I have to tell you to read the sources properly, not just make baseless assumptions of his nationality. That whole section mentioned above is there to explain his roots, but the article should focus on his career as an MMA fighter, which involves him being an Australian subject. SpyroeBM (talk) 11:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

On top of that, his pages on UFC, Sherdog, Tapology and etc. list him as an Australian fighter, therefore it makes no sense to list him in the introduction as a New Zealand fighter as there are sections in the article explaining his New Zealand roots. This article is not about Whittaker's nationality, it is about his MMA career, which aligns with him being an Australian subject. Another prime example is for Beneil Dariush, who was born in Iran, but moved to the US at the age of 9, and fights under the US flag. Is it now a point where if he mentions something about Iran (especially him mentioning information about Iran during UFC 280) then all of a sudden we can just put him as an Iranian fighter now? The background section of Dariush's article is more than enough to explain his Assyrian and Iranian roots, but with Whittaker, he has fought in competitions, aside from the UFC (notably the Commonwealth Games 2018) as an Australian. SpyroeBM (talk) 12:04, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Representing Australia and having a citizenship are two different things. There are plenty of othet kiwis who have lived in Australia their entire lives and have no citizenship. My point being is hes more likely to only have a nz citizenship then have an Australian citizenship. Playdoughboy (talk) 00:54, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

How can you be so confident about him not having Australian citizenship??? In my previous statement I have repeatedly told you that him having an Australian passport is sourced in the article, and it has mentioned in the Representing both Australia and New Zealand section about him being an Australian national and him only being born in New Zealand to a NZ mother with Maori heritage. No one is denying or trying to erase him having NZ roots, but it is already mentioned as part of his early life and personal life section in detail.

Hell, even there is a whole section dedicated to it, so I don't understand why you are so fixated on putting him as a New Zealand fighter. In your source he is only referred to as a Kiwi-born fighter, and Whittaker's Wikipedia article should only be relevant about his MMA and wrestling career, which he has participated as an Australian national.

Another example being Khamzat Chimaev, although he has Russian roots and regularly embraces those roots controversially, he is only listed as a Swedish national as he moved to Sweden at 18 and participates in wrestling competitions and the UFC as a Swedish fighter. Even his MMA pages have the Swedish flag.

You clearly have some fixation of putting Whittaker as a New Zealand fighter, even though there is no official mention of him ever representing the New Zealand flag in competition (key emphasis competition), as he trains, lives, and fights as an Australian national. He only emphasizes that he has Maori roots and has a connection to NZ through his mother's family, hence he feels inclined to promote NZ mixed martial arts for the betterment of the country's fighting scene, but he has officially stated in interviews and video sources plastered throughout the article that he is Australian fighter.

Other than that NZ Herald source you keep referring to, you clearly just throw around the idea that he represents New Zealand officially in MMA and wrestling without any shred of evidence. I don't know how many times I have to tell you to read Whittaker's Representing both Australia and New Zealand section, and his early and personal life, along with the freestyle career section in his Wikipedia article. At this point, this whole back and forward exchange with the same things being mentioned warrants some outside opinion, hence I ask other notable MMA Wikipedia editors (@Cassiopeia, @Sdpdude9, @Gsfelipe94, @KyleBYerrick, @Rcpilot9, @Ikamborden, @Nswix, and etc.) to provide a conclusion to this matter. SpyroeBM (talk) 05:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Except hes stated himself clearly he represents new zealand as well. Which makes your mental gymnastics that more hilarious. He even says he fights like a maori warrior in the cage. Playdoughboy (talk) 07:30, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Wrong record

Somebody changed his record to say he’s undefeated 2600:1014:B101:B7FE:D1F7:BAC6:CD79:8B9D (talk) 03:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)