Talk:Putinism

Soapboxing
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Current status: The end of Putinism and conclusive victory of Western-style liberal democratic Ukraine Putin is in fact always ending up screwing anything he tries to accomplish. Under him, USSR collapsed, Russia lost wars in Pridnestrovie, Afghanistan, Iraq, Chechen, Abkhazie, Ossetia, Syria and Ukraine! All country is falling apart and everybody tries to run away or has to live in poverty. Corruption and violent crime are rampant! Now, people are getting even poorer and beginning to starve. Russia does not have any modern technology, only small number of oligarys rob everybody and live in palaces, the rest of the population is terrorized. He is in fact very sick - he has terminal cancer of several vital organs, as also confirmed to Milwaukee Sun by the ex-CIA retired military officer living in Tel-Aviv, speaking on condition of anonymity. He is also limping, and his hands are shaking, due to the severe and very painful illness of his legs and hands. He cannot be cured, and he takes blood baths inside the carcasses of hunted animals, as also reported by many reliable media outlets, like Chicago Tribune and Daily Mail. He ran his army in trouble in Ukraine, where half of the Russian soldiers were quickly killed by brave Ukrainian defenders of democratic European ways, and the other half just surrendered after witnessing that Ukrainians live in European comfort - with running water and sewage in many Ukrainian houses, electricity, washers and driers and flushable toilets, due to democracy. He now faces the prospect of surrendering to Volodymyr Zelinski, the brave Ukrainian president, and paying trillions of Euros to support Ukrainian progress and strengthening of European-democratic way of life in Ukraine! He tried to support American ex-President Trump, but Americans quickly elected a much better, pro-Western and pro-NATO president, who supports the defense of Europe! These days, as reported by many very reputable Ukrainian sources, Putin is hiding in his cold, dark and wet bunker somewhere in the Uralb mountains. He will likely be soon deposed by the coup d'etat staged by his henchmen who do not like that he is always screwing up, or captured by European Ukrainian army. After that, he will hopefully be extradited to Haag or Tel Aviv, where he will be tried and hanged quickly. This is actually quite good overview of the current status of Putinism, with many well-research sources! We should work together to make it into a section in the main article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:646:9A00:C390:ADDF:4DC6:926D:65E7 (talk) 05:57, 31 March 2023 (UTC) "Reputable Ukrainian sources" are funny, of course, but don't expect them to be neutral. You're talking nonsense. The USSR collapsed under Gorbachev, and not under Putin, who you need to be to not know this. It sounds like a populist fairy tale, and please don't call me a kremlebot, but your sources can't be trusted. What kind of cancer, what kind of Trump, a bunker, this is just conspiracy nonsense, I understand that maybe you are angry at him, maybe you are a Ukrainian or some Canadian, and you have the right to be angry at anyone, but please do not spoil the article 81.163.41.230 (talk) 19:49, 3 December 2023 (UTC) The quoted sources are not only reputable Ukrainian sources, but also many Western very democratic and anti-Putin sources, like New York Post, NBC News and The Guardian. They all are saying the same. 2601:646:8080:10B0:A704:B2C2:A863:A862 (talk) 13:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC) 81.163.41.230 : please feel free to add the Ukrainian or other sources to this valuable discussion of dreadful Putinism. 2601:646:8080:10B0:B80D:F23D:525F:CA95 (talk) 07:03, 12 December 2023 (UTC) References

missing important section: external politics

I cannot believe you missed the main motif: Make Russia great again after gorbachev and yeltsin yielded it to the West). Munich speech of Vladimir Putin, Foreign policy of Vladimir Putin.- Altenmann >talk 01:31, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I agree, and you are very welcome to improve this page. I will be busy at real life work. My very best wishes (talk) 01:35, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Information from ruwiki

Due to attempt of deletion article "ru:Путинизм" in ruwiki i want to save information in this article·Carn !? 12:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done·Carn !? 11:27, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

This article is written mainly from journalistic and journalistic sources. The article in ruwiki have higher quality because it uses academic sources. I am currently also collecting sources from other Wikipedia (German, for example) and I am going to add information from them to this article.·Carn !? 11:27, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Disputed information

I do not know whether or not there is reason to believe information in this article is disputed, but I have assumed good faith and turned another editor's free text 'disputed' note into proper use of a template. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 17:19, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

This Article is very biased to be honest and argues not very plausible. There are actually no Oligarchs in Russia because the very very rich Enterpreneurs in Russia have no political power anymore in opposite to the US that is according to a serious American Study an Oligarchy. The Intelligence Services have also a lot of power in US and UK. The term Putinism itself is only a political buzz word and not a scientific term. The hatred of specific ethnic groups is not a part of Mr. Putins style of rule. Georgians were not victims of a hate campaign in Russia like Novaya Gazeta claimed.--88.65.185.114 (talk) 13:39, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Remove “international support”

The International support section contains no substantial information nor is it cited and should be removed. Even still, you can’t positively relate French right wing politics with Russian Putinism considering the vast differences in government, geography, history, economy etc. 216.73.160.9 (talk) 21:56, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

duplicate source

sources 66 and 82 are the same. also it's a guy citing himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A04:4540:7111:DF00:95CD:1166:ADF7:EFCC (talk) 01:46, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

What do you mean "it's a guy citing himself"? Renat 10:31, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Fascism

Recently, categories relating to fascism and far-right politics have been added to this article and to other relating to Putin's regime or the war in Ukraine, but is there any basis for adding these categories? Labelling politicians fascist and comparing to Hitler is extremely common after all. -- 2804:248:f675:6f00:585f:cedd:f49a:da8b (talk) 20:22, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

We follow what reliable sources say, and those categories are very relevant to Putin and Putinism. You'll need a strong consensus to remove them, so I have restored them, per the RS in the article. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:15, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

That's not how it works, the user who made the changes is the one who needs consensus, and he doesn't have, and there's nothing indicating that this is a majority viewpoint, these categories are a violation of NPOV. -- 2804:248:f62d:1600:3c6d:91c8:8f33:7559 (talk) 20:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

That kind of is how it works. Furthermore, this is not labelling a politician fascist nor comparing him to Hitler. This article is not about a politician. This is adding categories to a subject field, whose relationship to fascism is being discussed by academics. —Michael Z. 21:23, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. Those categories are backed up by RS and content in the article, so that's why we have them.

IP2804 (and your other IPs), you made a BOLD deletion, and that was REVERTED. Now we're DISCUSSING. You are not supposed to restore your BOLD deletion. That's how WP:BRD works, so your restoration is edit warring. That can get you blocked. NPOV has nothing to do with this, and neither does BLP, as this is based on RS. We document what RS say, no matter what their POV is. It is a violation of NPOV for an editor to allow their personal POV to influence their edits. They are supposed to simply document what RS say and keep their own views out of it. Your edits are personal POV editing, and that is forbidden here. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 21:41, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Ok, you don't need to add these categories to document what sources are saying, that's all, once you do that, you're pratically labeling Putin or Putinism as "fascist", which is questionable. -- 2804:248:f62d:1600:3c6d:91c8:8f33:7559 (talk) 21:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

No, we document what RS say, NO MATTER WHAT it may or may not mean about Putin. If this were a serious and totally false allegation (which it is not) about him, we would follow WP:Public figure and document it. You can have any opinion about Putin and fascism you want, but RS dictate what we write. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:09, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

As I mentioned before, you can simply document what RS says without adding these categories, and since Putinism refers to Putin's political system and "ideology" (if we can call it that), you can't pretend that this is not about him, finally, per WP:CATPOV and WP:CATDEF, categories should generally be uncontroversial, but these categories are pretty controversial, and they also need to be defining, while there are sources that do define either Putin or his political system as "fascist", this doesn't seem to be a common and consistent definition. -- 2804:248:f62d:1600:3c6d:91c8:8f33:7559 (talk) 22:26, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

I think "far right" is the consensus of experts. "Fascism" is problematic because all fascist regimes were based on a powerful mass party, and Putin has nevertried to build one. Rjensen (talk) 03:39, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Putin built a powerful mass party, United Russia, and ensured all other parties are “systemic opposition.” (But I think that a fascist group, system, or ideology can be fascist without building a “powerful mass party.”) —Michael Z. 04:32, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I disagree, Putin is often labeled "far-right", but this doesn't seem to be consensus, and I would argue it is problematic too. -- 2804:248:f6f7:6f00:a431:80b8:8dc0:24fd (talk) 04:34, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

The subject of this article is not Vladimir Putin, so its categories do not have to be defining of Vladimir Putin. Can you show that calling Putinism “fascist” is controversial in WP:reliable sources? —Michael Z. 04:35, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

"Fascism" is not defining of "Putinism" (Putin's political system) either, and there doesn't seem to be consensus among experts for this. -- 2804:248:f6f7:6f00:a431:80b8:8dc0:24fd (talk) 04:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I’m not sure that is a provable assertion. —Michael Z. 19:22, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Trolling on this talk page

@Ymblanter and Qzd: You both reverted this troll] on main article but can you both ensure now that this IP hopper's trolling is reverted on this talk page as well?[1] I don't think anybody would want to entertain his demand to discuss his intended outright BLP violations and full-blown trolling contrary to the facts that Russia won Georgia war, won Chechen war, successfully expanded Assad's control over Syria and saved it from falling, etc. because WP:NOTAFORUM and WP:DENY are a thing. Orientls (talk) 06:14, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

I do not think for a number of reasons that my intervention here will be generally perceived as positive, though it was obvious trolling indeed. Ymblanter (talk) 16:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Eurasianism Removed

Eurasianism has been recently removed in an edit by ADRIAN55 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Putinism&oldid=1110774425

Does this removal have any basis? Eurasianism is a very clear characteristic of Putinism. AWishfulMan (talk) 17:30, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Classification

Shouldn't Putinism be classified as fascism? It's labelled as such by outside sources, and it's justified and warrants the category. Firekong1 (talk) 18:42, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Putinism and fascism have as much in common as Orban and Kim Jong Il. He is just a conservative nationalist oligarchic authoritarian leader, even the cult of personality is limited by praise in the media 81.163.41.230 (talk) 19:41, 3 December 2023 (UTC)