Talk:Patrick Maher (hurler)

Change of category name

Re the bizarre change from "Tipperary hurlers" to "Tipperary GAA hurlers", see discussion here. Brocach (talk) 11:05, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

North Tipp vs Tipp

I understand why editors would argue that because North Tipperary has a separate county council that it is more accurate to state that. However that is not practical. If one was to take Dublin as an example this would mean changing Dublin to Fingal Dun Laoighaire-Rathdown for certain individuals. No one self identifies as being from Fingal or Dun Laoighaire-Rathdown . They will say they are from Dublin. Irish don't use county councils to refer to their from, they use the traditional county i.e one of the 32 counties.Finnegas (talk) 20:14, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree. While the older "counties" were aligned with administrative areas in times past, the administrative areas have long moved on and yet most people still identify with the traditional county definitions. Attempts to polarize usage across all articles is wrong and flies against common usage. --HighKing (talk) 13:37, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Common usage is not the only criterion. Law is also quite useful. All county articles give both current and traditional usages. It is quite useless to deny that North Tipperary is a county. It's a verifiable fact. And yes, it does mean changing from Dublin to Fingal. Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:36, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Except WP:COMMON is the main criteria. BTW - why can't both categories be included? Why is it only one or the other? --HighKing (talk) 16:03, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Common doesn't work for Bombay which re-directs to Mumbai because that's the legal name. I could go along with the traditional county being mentioned elsewhere if that was appropriate. Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

There may be a few exceptions but even so, Mumbai is what the citizens call the city and it is therefore the COMMONNAME there. Your tendentious editing will have to stop. Not every article needs details info on modern counties, especially when most people still associate with the traditional counties. --HighKing (talk) 17:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually it's your edting, flying in the fact of demonstrable facts, that is tendentious. Nevertheless, I'll take to takpage, for all the god it'll do. The same entrenched positions wil be taken up, as usual, by the usual candidates. Laurel Lodged (talk) 18:24, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Maher was born before the administrative county of North Tipperary was created in 2001. He was born in County Tipperary. Brocach (talk) 17:13, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

That's impossible as Tipperary has not existed as an administrative county since 1898. After that date, the area in which he was born was known as "Tipperary (North Riding)". It was then renamed to North Tipperary. As no page exist for Tipp NR, NT is the nearest equivalent page. Laurel Lodged (talk) 17:19, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

According to the Lorrha website: "Welcome to Lorrha, a beautiful historical region in North Tipperary" - see here. Is that because it's common, legal or both? Laurel Lodged (talk) 18:37, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

It's fairly common, I grant you, for people in North Tipperary to use that term, or "Tipperary North". A bit like people in Dublin referring to "Northside" and "Southside". But ask them where they're from and what hurling county they support (which is what's relevant here) and they'll say "Tipperary". Also, take a look at the map on the very same website - it says "Tipperary". Check our the name of the County Enterprise Board - it doesn't say "North Tipperary", it says "Tipperary North" (which is also used). Probably because we now seeing many example of what is common and legal. And let's not get all silly on this - I'm sure for every example you find, another will be found that says something else. So some common sense has to be used and consensus reached over guidelines and what the best practice should be on WP. --HighKing (talk) 02:59, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

North Tipperary did not exist as a county until 2001. The Lorrha website did not exist until 2008. As I'm sure you have noticed, Laurel Lodged, the huge majority of Irish biographies on Wikipedia follow convention in stating birthplace with the traditional county name. The traditional county name here is County Tipperary. The former North Riding was part of County Tipperary. Brocach (talk) 19:18, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Wrong again. The administrative counties of Tipp NR and Tipp SR were not part of the administrative county of Tipp: they replaced it. In creating the former administrative counties the latter was destroyed. That's not to say that it fell out of folk memory or common usage. But that's an entirely different thing. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:41, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Mortified that I was "wrong" to say that "The former North Riding was part of County Tipperary". What county was the former North Riding part of? Brocach (talk) 22:10, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

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