Talk:Narmad

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This article is full of POV fluff.. TastyCakes 19:34, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I have removed some or all of it... TastyCakes 19:43, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Is his autobiography named as "Mhari Vaat" or "Mhari Atmakatha"? Is his full name Narmadashankar Mulshankar Bhatt? Npindia 10:35, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I have redirected this page to Narmadashankar Dave because Narmad is his pseudonym and main article should be at his full name. Nadesai 17:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Article was earlier in the name of Narmad, which is his pseudonym, so I wrote main article here and redirected narmad page to here — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coderzombie (talk • contribs) 17:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

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October 2016 expansion and suggestions

The article needed serious attention as he is very major figure in Gujarati literature. Its rewritten and life and career expanded based on new research published in new edition (1994) biography Mari Hakikat. Especially this established his correct death date of 26 Feb. Works list added but need conversion to prose with more info. I may do that in future. Critical study and style needs expansion. his views should be added. Images of his bursts, monuments, home is needed. Life/career section should be further expanded with insights and other info.--Nizil (talk) 23:25, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Curdle. My suggestions during October 2016 rewrite and expansion.--Nizil (talk) 14:43, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Ideas for expanding the article

Well, I've taken a few runs through copy editing, and I think it looks better now (not done totally yet though). But while doing that, I got quite hooked- he sounds like a rather fascinating character. So I did a bit of digging and managed to find some interesting stuff; a recent PHD thesis written on his autobiography that looks ok, some literary criticism on his work, and a couple of articles from the India Times.

Apparently they're building a replica of his house at the university named after him, and even better, the other article mentioned that the actual house he built and lived in has just been restored, which led to a short youtube video from a local TV station story about it. It's posted by the station on their own official youtube account, so should be ok copyright wise to link to it somewhere. ( there's also a much longer video on the subject, which looks interesting, but no idea where it came from or its copyright status,or how reliable it is, so not much use for wikipedia purposes).

Re the expansion on literary style, there's another stand alone article about his literary works that is pretty much an exact copy of whats here; possibly expand that one with more in depth literary analysis, and totally rewrite whats here, selecting only the works most important to illustrating the trajectory of his life, career, and thoughts about the causes he supported. At present what is here (especially the prose section) reads a bit to much like a list to really work in a biography.

Anyone have other thoughts on this before I give it a try? Curdle (talk) 17:42, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

@Curdle:. First, thank you for copyediting article. I had expanded it few months back. I am not native speaker of English so I make grammatical mistakes. Thank you for correcting them. Second, Narmad is a major figure of Gujarati literature and the era of modern Gujarati literature starts with him. Please expand the article. I liked your ideas for expansion. Works section needs expansion and there is separate article created for it as he was a prolific writer. Please expand other sections too if you like to. I know Gujarati and if you have any questions or need help in translation, I will be happy to help. Regards,--Nizil (talk) 14:30, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah:. Sorry about the delay, got busy RL, but I have been collecting sources, so almost ready to start. I did want to take you up on offer of help to check on something tho - Its the news story on the house restoration I mentioned above. I'm assuming its in Gujarati, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Is it ok regarding the information they provide? From the graphics it looks like they include a short bio on Narmad, and I know some TV news stories just put in silly stuff because they think facts are too boring for viewers, so wanted to make sure its reasonably accurate and not sensationalist. I do have a couple of India times articles on the restoration, but no pictures of the house, so it would be nice to have this story if possible (even if its not necessary as a reference). Its at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIrUn9opN_Y Curdle (talk) 02:58, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

I watched the youtube video. It is indeed in Gujarati and the news story is covered by TV9 Gujarati, a statewide regional language news channel; So can be considered as reliable source. The story can be cross-verified by the The Times of India article (Read). The video is news story of inauguration of two houses on 24 August 2015 (birth anniversary of Narmad):

• The video states that the original house of Narmad, Saraswati Mandir, was restored/renovated at cost of Rs. 35 Lakh (₹ 3.5 million) by Surat Municipal Corporation. It will be converted into museum.
• The replica of house is also constructed at the Veer Narmad South Gujarat University. It is based on plan of original house Sarasvati Mandir + extension of the house Sarika Sadan. It is constructed with modern construction techniques, at cost of Rs. 1.5 crore (₹ 15 million). Narmad sold his house Saraswati Mandir to Jethashankar Trivedi during time of his financial crisis and his moving to Mumbai. It was later inherited by Sarika, daughter of Trivedi who added that extension Sarika Sadan. The Sarika Sadan extension was removed during the restoration of the original house, Saraswati Mandir. The video also notes criticism by Narmad Pragati Mandal, a local group, for spending too much money on replica and inclusion of Sarika Sadan (due to lack of consultation with locals, neighbors and historians) in replica at the University.

Feel free to ask. Happy to help.--Nizil (talk) 04:43, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Saraswati Mandir in 1933. Image from Mari Hakikat. Restored House match this image.

Some inputs: This video/slideshow on youtube provides info on whole street/locality/nearby houses of Saraswati Mandir in Gujarati. Seems like created by some local history knowing person. This local news channel S9 too covers inauguration event here in Gujarati. The house is located at 21.194928°N 72.827817°E / 21.194928; 72.827817. (One with red roof, Google Maps points the house next to it as Narmad House.) See this blog for images before renovation. Comparing it with youtube video clears which extension and additions to original house were removed during restoration. And the replica at university (here photo 8) includes Sarika extension.--Nizil (talk) 05:11, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

gah! just popped back to put a link to the second news story re the inauguration and ask you to look at that too, and made a big long post only to lose it in an edit conflict!

But I see you found it already, so thats good. Thankyou very much for taking a look at them and transcribing the info, sounds like they would be ok to use as a reference as well as nice pictures. I had seen a three year old Times of India article about the planning of the replica house, which hadn't been started at the time of writing- good to confirm it was actually built. I have seen the local history clip, and thought it looked interesting but wasnt sure how authorative a source it would be. Not sure about the copyright issues though..The narrator and the poster have the same surnames and seem to be of the family of the former house owners, but could you tell if they were the creators of the video? Sad to hear Narmad had to sell it; I had read that the building exacerbated his financial problems, but hadnt come across info on the sale yet- the majority of the stuff I have access to are literary journal articles about his career, and they have the annoying habit of only making random mentions of personal or biographical stuff so you have to dig a bit!.Curdle (talk) 07:06, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for Edit conflicts. :( I think you are talking about this ToI story. This 2008 news tells about the house sold to poet Gajendralal Pandya + complaints about its poor condition. This is image of house taken in 2015 before restoration (with Sarika extension) [1]. This commemorative plaque image at house tells the house was handed over to Kavi Narmad Yugavart Trust (which repulished all Narmad works and is dedicated to Narmad) by (under Ajit Desai, Mayor of) Surat Municipal Corporation on 24-8-1992 on birth anniversary of Narmad. Still digging deep, wait! :) --Nizil (talk) 07:26, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

• Replica news [2]
• Replica house at University [3]
• Based on his autobiography Mari Hakikat (Gujarati), he renovated his ancestral house in January 1866 and work ended in September. (Autobio is up to Nov 1866). He had also purchased a space opposite his house in Rs. 600 and built new house which is Saraswati Mandir. He later lost money in stock market.
• Story in Gujarati newspaper Mumbai Samachar. Features original 1933 image of house and tells that house is in poor condition. It notes that the house was completed in 1866. This Gujarat Tourism website also notes that it was built in 1866.
• news in 2014 and 2012 tell SMC took over, work start 2014 (Gujarati) Divya Bhaskar: The house was purchased by Suarat Municipal Corp and handed over to the Trust.

I think we have accumulated enough info to have separate start-class article. Work started here: Saraswati Mandir .:D --Nizil (talk) 08:00, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

This video is indeed narrated by former owner Gajendrashankar Pandya's brother, Deepak Pandya who spent his childhood there. He shares his memories of house and how it was used to look before renovation (with Sarika extension). He talks about Narmad too. But he does not provide much info about history of how it was passed from one owner to another. This is short documentary (2012) created by students of faculty of architecture, SCET college before the house was renovated. It talks about Narmad.--Nizil (talk) 10:00, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Saraswati Mandir is created.  Done Thank you for inspiration. :) Please continue to copyedit and expand both articles. Regards and cheers,--Nizil (talk) 12:39, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

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Why does he have a long name?

Isn't Narmadashankar a long name? 14 characters, to be exact, that's more than how many are in my first, middle, and last name combined, which I'm not going to tell you. Actually, not more, but you get the point, I have 18, so two names are actually as long as those combined. 1jire (talk) 21:06, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

(copied from User talk:Nizil Shah) Just wondering if we should move the page to Narmad, per WP:COMMONNAME? Also, cc @Gazal world: Coderzombie (talk) 07:25, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

I have no issue with renaming article as Narmad as we have done with Kalapi. The current title serves OK as well. The short name Narmad redirects here. Narmad is just a short name of his longer Narmadashankar. I really don't know which name he used in his writing. If he had preferred Narmad, we can go with it. I am neutral about both names. So do whatever seems OK. @Gazal world: might shine some light on it. Regards,-Nizil (talk) 04:52, 22 October 2018 (UTC)