Talk:Muggletonianism

Last of the Muggletonians?

My grandmother (died in the 1990s) was a Muggletonian as was my Aunt (died 2000). Several other Muggletonians came to my grandmother's funeral but none, as far as I know, to my aunt's. My aunt had an original edition of the Third Testament that the duo (or one of them) wrote. There was also an interesting 'catch 22' that made it almost certain that the religion would die out, as it seems to have. I'll try to get more detailed information and report back Terryw (talk) 13:05, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Ref. for publications including the Third Testament - "Their first book, their Transcendent Spirituall Treatise (1652) was followed, after a period of imprisonment for blasphemy, by Reeve's Six Principles (1656) and the jointly-written The Divine Looking-Glass or the Third and Last Testament (also 1656)".http://www.sc.edu/library/spcoll/hist/muggle.html

Ref. for 'catch 22' belief that contributed to the sect's demise - "Muggletonians did not actively proselytize for new members, they waited for the faithful to come to them in their own good time. Once having asked to received the revealed Word they were encouraged to join, those who rejected the revealed Word were condemned. This contributed to a limited membership which gradually declined over time". This is confirmed by my Aunt's statements and her refusal to show me any of her Muggletonian materials. http://www.exlibris.org/nonconform/engdis/muggleton.html Terryw (talk) 21:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Never became extinct

According to Paul Brassly, a scholar at the University of Exeter, the Muggletonians never went extinct:

"More Last Muggletonians

Patrick Collinson wonders whether Philip Noakes was the last Muggletonian (LRB, 5 June). Wade Muggleton, whom I taught about twenty years ago when he was in his early twenties, claimed membership of the sect, along with (as far as I remember) other members of his family. He was surprised I had heard of them, and seemed unaware of Christopher Hill’s and E.P. Thompson’s work.

Paul Brassley Ilsington, Devon" - https://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n13/letters [3 July 2008]

In fact, Wade Muggleton (probably a descendant of the group's founder) is well and alive: https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/what-crops-grow-what-cull [22nd September 2016]

84.175.139.240 (talk) 20:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it looks like Brassley was mistaken--I reached out to him and he said that Wade got in touch with him after that letter to tell him he misremembered and that Wade was not a Muggletonian. Or perhaps he just wanted to remain quiet... --Elaboration Station (talk) 21:43, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

bombing of Liverpool

I read some where that many Muggs were killed in the bombing of Liverpool during WWII. Can any one confirm this? Lentisco 04:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it. A Zeppelin bombed the building where the Muggletonians used to meet during WWI. Reeve, co-founder of the Muggletonians, was buried in Bethlehem Churchyard, which was in the vicinity of the present Liverpool Station (London). So perhaps you got something mixed up. ---84.175.139.240 (talk) 21:20, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Cleaned up

Made the spelling of Muggleton's name uniform (was previously both "Lodowicke," linking to his wiki, and "Ludovic," with no link). Fixed grammar--"who" to "whom."

Muggletonianism vs. Fifth Monarchists]?

What is the difference between the two? BillMasen 01:22, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

The Muggletonians believed that Reeve and Muggleton were the two prophets predicted in the book of Revelation and were not explicitly apocolyptic although in the early days there was an expectation that the end was near but they were never political, the Fifth Monarchy Men were explicitly political and apocolyptic and in no way recognised Reeve and Muggleton.

April Fools' Day 2009

This page has got itself nominated for the 2009 April Fools Day featured article. (Nuffink t'do with me, cats and kittens, honest.) It wont "win" which is a shame as it would be an excellent opportunity to try out Muggleton's curse on a few folks. peace n loveCoxparra (talk) 17:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Apparent original research in The Two Witnesses

I removed some apparent original research from the "The Two Witnesses" section. It seems that someone was synthesizing sources to present their own opinion on the movement. There were also issues with tone, e.g. "What does Revelation say the Two Witnesses are to do?" and "Was the root of the problem that Reeve and Muggleton hadn't taken their role seriously enough themselves?"). It cited Clarkson's prior occupation, then used that to draw its own conclusion about why Clarkson ended up submitting to Muggleton. However, I don't have these souces, so it may be that some of the statements were supportable, just not well-cited. Superm401 - Talk 02:18, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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footnote 11

Does anyone know if ref/footnote 11 is a verbatim lifting from one of the other references? It seems to me to be rather opinionated and looking at the facsimile of the 1829 hymbook mentioned, likely incorrect. link to book on archive.org

In particular this phrase seems to be unsupported: "The words when read from the page are doggrel but, when sung to the correct tune, come over very well indeed. They are not hymns of praise because God takes no notice." - lots of the songs in the book are praise songs. The 125 song has the first lines: "When I praise the God of Jacob, In my soul what joys do flow, for to see by his last prophets, we this almighty God do know"

Which makes one wonder whether some of the other stuff in this page (and elsewhere) about the nature of Muggletonian worship is completely wrong. JMWt (talk) 12:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)