Talk:Mortal Kombat 11

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More sourcesEdit

The article as it stands would not survive an AfD because there's insufficient sourcing. Here's more. Remember: keep WP:NOTCRYSTALBALL in mind and attribute claims.

  • Mike Fahey (6 Dec 2018). "Mortal Kombat 11 Announced, Launching Globally April 23". Kotaku. Retrieved 8 Dec 2018.
  • Imran Khan (7 Dec 2018). "Mortal Kombat XI Will Have Character Variations, New Story, Full Reveal In January". Game Informer. Retrieved 8 December 2018.
  • Michael McWhertor (6 Dec 2018). "Mortal Kombat 11 revealed, coming April 2019". Polygon. Retrieved 8 Dec 2018.
  • Chris Reed (7 Dec 2018). "Mortal Kombat 11 Release Date, Bonuses, Editions, And Pre-Order Guide (US)". GameSpot. Retrieved 8 Dec 2018.
  • Mitchell Saltzman; Michael Huynh (7 Dec 2018). "Mortal Kombat 11 Trailer #1 Breakdown - Theories and Speculation". IGN. Retrieved 8 Dec 2018.

Ian.thomson (talk) 16:20, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Franchise IterationsEdit

There's eleven of these things??!?Liberty5651 (talk) 00:48, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

1, II, 3, 3 again, 3 yet again, 4, 4 again, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, X. This article is about 11. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:52, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
You could call 9 again for the Kollektor's Edition and X again for XL. --uKER (talk) 02:05, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Music reception for the trailer.Edit

I think the article is misrepresenting the reception for the music in the trailer, presenting it as if equal amounts of people thought it was OK as the ones who hated it. Needless to say, the music was widely panned, all of the trailer's distribution channels being flooded with comments on why they would make such a choice, and spawning countless videos replacing the music, or eliminating it altogether. --uKER (talk) 22:23, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Unreal Engine 3 or 4Edit

I need to add that it's using Unreal Engine 4, that has been confirmed and it's on this list Mattster987 (talk) 22:41, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Mattster987, could you provide a reliable secondary source (such as a news website) that confirms this? A separate Wikipedia article (that also has no source for the entry) is not sufficient. Lordtobi () 22:50, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. DannyS712 (talk) 23:55, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Is MK11 really using Unreal Engine 3? Because this question has been discussed here on Reddit, and user abt1081 argued that the Details Panel and Blueprint is from Unreal Engine 4, not UE3.1 Also, these sources claim that it is UE4 as well: 2,3 Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:02, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

For anyone still in doubt: Link It's funny how the clarification is targeted at "whoever keeps changing the Wikipedia article". LOL --uKER (talk) 13:06, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

So thanks to Jon Greenberg (NetherRealm's programming lead) it was confirmed that MK11 uses a highly modified UE3, while the updated MK Mobile will use UE4. That's why it caused a little confusion. Thanks for the link. Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:20, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Character ListEdit

Personally, I think it would be easier to visualize the roster if it were a simple list instead of being in a paragraph. I also wanted to touch base on Kitana and Cassie Cage, as they both appeared in the behind the scenes trailer that NRS showcased at the reveal. With that being said, I think it’s safe to include them. Liu Kang and Kung Lao are included but they weren’t “revealed”, only briefly mentioned in the trailer. Kale455 (talk) 23:17, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Kitana and Cassie weren't "revealed" either if you say Liu Kang and Kung Lao are not confirmed... Tae Official (talk) 01:54, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
Cassie Cage, Kung Lao and Liu Kang will probably be playable as were revealed by achievements from the MK11 Steam page, the following characters should be also playable: Erron Black, Frost, Jacqui Briggs and Kotal Kahn.12 About Kitana, she only appeared in the behind the scenes trailer, thats all. Goro and Moloch will probably not be playable as their corpses are seen in the background of Goro's Lair arena 3. I guess that's all we know now. Jirka.h23 (talk) 06:50, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
So the leak turned out to be right and all the characters were confirmed. Another four characters were leaked yesterday in Trophy List.(1) It confirms that four more characters should be playable: Frost, Kitana, Kollector and Cetrion. This gives us so far 26 playable characters (including two DLC). Jirka.h23 (talk) 12:40, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
This is almost the final roaster, but there is still one empty slot (the other one is probably Frost), who is it? It could be that mysterious acronym "TER", revealed by achievements. (Terminator? :-) Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:46, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Whoever added the bit about the Kollector got a detail wrong. He has four arms, not six. PhrasingBOOM (talk) 14:22, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

However, as Uker noted, another pair of arms is holding his backpack, look at his back. Jirka.h23 (talk) 15:08, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2019Edit

change the game engine to unreal 4 (talk) 23:14, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Are you serious? --uKER (talk) 23:30, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
  Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Danski454 (talk) 17:13, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 April 2019Edit

Characters: Add Cetrion Tripolis16 (talk) 17:39, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:42, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
Cetrion is now confirmed and included in the list. Jirka.h23 (talk) 11:50, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Missing character?Edit

The base roster is supposed to be 25 characters. We currently have 23, plus Frost (who hasn't been revealed officially). Are we missing one more character then? Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn, being DLC I guess aren't part of the count. --uKER (talk) 22:11, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes we do. But to be fair, the blue character isn't Frost. You'd have to wait from Ed Boon himself for that. PizzaTime04 (talk) 03:41, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Well, I see you're not following the game. These pictures are recent, but Frost was leaked ages ago, previously as cybernetic and bald. Now, back on topic, can anyone clear this up? Are we still missing a character? --uKER (talk) 04:43, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
EDIT: Never mind, the picture in the link I just posted answers my question. Shao Kahn is part of the main roster. He'll probably be kinda like Brainiac in Injustice 2, where he takes a slot in the character select, but he's locked, and he'll be unlockable either as pre-order bonus. See how Frost is also initially locked, and unlockable by beating chapter 4 in story mode, or as an in-game purchase. --uKER (talk) 04:51, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Done. I removed all mention of Shao Kahn being DLC. See how this is even confirmed by the announcement of Shang Tsung being the first DLC character. --uKER (talk) 05:34, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
There is no reason to start new paragraph, if it is already discussed above (character list). (BTW you are wrong, Shao Kahn is a DLC character, many sources support this and yours does not exclude this).Jirka.h23 (talk) 12:52, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Kollector's armsEdit

I'm leaving this here in case anyone wonders about the reason of the edit warring nonsense. It's sad that even the linked GameSpot article says he has four arms, but oh well. --uKER (talk) 20:42, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

DLC leaksEdit

Since these have not been confirmed on the talk page they go just to talk about:

       Shang Tsung

source: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkcat1 (talkcontribs) 20:03, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately this is going nowhere, since you can neither post this rumor to the article, nor even talk about it here. Sorry. --uKER (talk) 13:12, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Are Shao Kahn and Frost DLC?Edit

A certain someone moving Shao Kahn to the DLC section, and removing the tag that says Frost is locked. Here's your reasons why Shao Kahn is not DLC.

  • It has been said that the game's main roster consists of 25 characters, which matches the number of slots in the character select, which includes Shao Kahn and Frost.
  • In the Shang Tsung reveal it was said that he was the first DLC character.

In any case, I've reworded that section and each character's notes to better reflect reality. --uKER (talk) 23:18, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Nobody care what have been said about roster previously or who could be first or second. Those characters are downloadable and paid, therefore are clearly DLC, as is even presented on Steam. With Shao Kahn it was clear a long time before.1. Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:45, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
OK, first of all, it seems like you don't know how WP:BRD works. I started a discussion, and you're supposed to engage in it, instead of going and reverting back to your version. Now, I provided two reasons why those two are part of the main roster, and not to be considered DLC, but your response is "I don't care". Great. Well, here's more reasons for you to ignore:
  • Frost is not DLC by any stretch of the definition. Not only she's an opponent in Story Mode, but she can be unlocked to be playable without paying a dime. Let alone having to download anything.
  • Shao Kahn isn't DLC either, since him being an opponent in Story Mode even if you didn't purchase him proves he's part of the game's base data too. That said, even if Steam calls it that, content being locked behind a paywall doesn't turn it into DLC (ie, downloadable content), which, as the name itself specifies, is content you have to download.
    --uKER (talk) 13:09, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Sorry for being rude yesterday, I didn't see you already started this topic. Anyway, I still don't understand your arguments. Bo' Rai Cho or Tanya was also part of story mode in MKX and Goro was pre-order character, which could be later paid, and nobody dispute that they are an DLC characters leaving them separately. Jirka.h23 (talk) 16:56, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
No problem. Appreciate the apology. My problem is that I find it a bit odd to call it downloadable content if it's already there and you're just paying for permission to use it. I'd keep it simple and call it paid content, but I started a discussion about it here and it seems like not everyone agrees. BTW, I find it especially odd to put Frost into DLC, since she can be unlocked for free. I find that to be similar to the "unlock all crypt items" purchase, made for those who don't want to bother playing the game. --uKER (talk) 17:49, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps "Unlockable or DLC" caption could solve the case? Jirka.h23 (talk) 06:35, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
As I've mentioned before, as it is, the article contradicts itself. The text cites what's said in three cited sources: that base roster contains 25 characters and Shang Tsung is the first DLC character. The version you propose leaves us with a roster of 23 characters, and 3 DLC characters, two of which are available before Shang Tsung is even given a release date. Also as of today, despite appearing in Steam's "DLC" listing, Shao Kahn is not available for purchase, and isn't unlockable by any means other than having preordered. Do you really find it more accurate to call him DLC than just preorder bonus? The list reflecting this 25-character roster, with two of them having notes saying they're locked, and frost being unlockable via online purchase is the most concise way I've been able to come up with to explain the real state of things. --uKER (talk) 12:34, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
It does not contradict, base roster contains 25 playable characters at launch, including two unlockable or downloadable. Your notes explaining it futher are present. 26th Shang Tsung is not yet available, and is the first revealed DLC that will be available after launch. Jirka.h23 (talk) 14:37, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
Well, no. A character is either part of the base roster or DLC. It can't be both. --uKER (talk) 22:01, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
This is probably the core of the dispute. Are you saying that character can be part of the base roster only if it is not DLC? What is definition of DLC in you opinion anyway, available to buy and download, right? Can you source your claim? Jirka.h23 (talk) 17:53, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
Well, yeah, you're probably right about the root of the disagreement. BTW, the last two times it hasn't been me who has reverted the listing. Those were two other different editors. In any case, let's think this afresh. I think the current format of the listing has 3 good things: 1. it reflects the developers and numerous other sources saying explicitly that the roster is 25 characters, those being on the left box, 2. it reflects the announcement of Shang Tsung being the first DLC, and 3. with two minimal notes we manage to reflect Shao Kahn and Frost's situation about being purchasable stuff. In short, I feel the current is the clearest way to explain the game's reality. If you can clarify what it is that you feel the article is not conveying maybe we can work it out somehow. --uKER (talk) 20:07, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
You still did not answer my questions. What have been said before the release is not so important, as it can always change. Jirka.h23 (talk) 02:24, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Oh, so now you're disregarding the sources, including primary ones, assuming (out of nowhere) that the information changed before release. --uKER (talk) 04:41, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Primary up-to-date source is Steam, where they call both a DLC. So, the questions? Jirka.h23 (talk) 05:09, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Also, I see only Pizzatime to revert it (who does not even care to fill summary, so it should not be taken into account). Anyway, could you please answer, so we can quickly solve this case? 1. Can you source your claim that a DLC character can not be part of the playable base roster? 2. What is your deffinition of DLC chracter? Jirka.h23 (talk) 13:34, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

It was I who asked a question you didn't answer. I asked what is your issue with the current text, besides the simple fact of not using the term DLC, which I find quite questionable. --uKER (talk) 20:23, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

I didn't answer what? Issue is that both are DLC characters, which is now not reflected. Simple. Now please answer my questions, so we can finally solve this out. Thanks. Jirka.h23 (talk) 22:17, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
No, they're not DOWNLOADABLE content because they can't be downloaded separately from the core game. Those two are as downloadable as any other character in the game. You're insisting in using a technically inaccurate term, when the current text in the article is perfectly fine, and in accordance with all the announcements made by the game's publisher. --uKER (talk) 23:00, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
Can you source your claim that they can't be downloaded separately from the core game? ..All right, now I have read your discussion you started on wikipedia talk. There seems to be three editors, who disagree with you (count me as fourth), and one (Sergecross73), who wrote that he agrees with it without arguing with his views, it is also not clear with which opinion he agreed. Your argument is, that any character already existing in the game cannot be called DLC. I have already stated that Bo' Rai Cho or Tanya was also part of story mode in MKX, and Goro was pre-order character, which could be later paid, and nobody dispute that they are DLC characters leaving them separately. In other games as well. I also agree that it's a WP:PRIMARY source to quote Steam and that you still pay to download a patch that updates the game to enable the existing content. Nevertheless, perhaps "Unlockable" caption could solve the case? Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:03, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
About Steam, I find it a pretty poor reason to use as justification. Again, Steam calls YouTube VR a videogame, just because it fits Steam's distribution model for videogames, but that doesn't turn it into one. About whether they can be downloaded separately or not, I can't prove a negative. It should be you who would have to prove they can be. Anyway, this is getting old. I can go with "Unlockable", sure. Although in that case you'd be missing the fact that they can be paid for. I have to ask you again: what is it that you feel the current text is not reflecting? Because it does say that they can be unlocked. What I do want to maintain is that Shao Kahn and Frost are in a clearly different category than Shang Tsung. In other words, I'll be happy as long as that table has a group in which there's 25 characters, which everyone agrees is the initial roster size for the game. --uKER (talk) 19:31, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
My problem with the current state is that they do not seem to be sufficiently labeled, not everyone reads text below the asterisk, unlockable or paid characters are in different category than others. And as I have explained above, the article still will be in accordance with the announcements made by the game's publisher. 1. If you claim something, you should be able to prove it, therefore we cannot take it as a fact that it can't be downloaded separately from the core game. 2. Also, you did not prove your claim that a DLC character can not be part of the playable base roster, this may or may not be so. 3. I just played against Cyrex and Sektor, when they become later paid, we can not call them DLC because they are present in Story Mode of the game? This goes also against your theory. 4. Four people disagree with your opinion that any character already existing in the game cannot be called DLC. Therefore I propose again to return them to the DLC category, I would also agree with renaming it to "Unlockable" category. Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:41, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

After three days with no answer, I have changed the text, according to your previous answer I assume that we both agree with unlockable. Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:33, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

I think the layout you propose makes absolutely no sense, but I'm worn out arguing with you. The article says the roster is 25 characters but the table doesn't convey which are in that 25. Then, Shao Kahn and Frost being presented in the same way as Shang Tsung also makes no sense. Shang Tsung has been said to be DLC but you mark him as unlockable. Good luck unlocking him. I also facepalmed at your argument that "nobody reads under the asterisks". So yeah, I'm out. Best of luck to the article. --uKER (talk) 12:44, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Facepalm was mainly Cyrex and Sektor or that nobody agree with you that they are not DLC, but of course you do not want to answer that. I'm not surprised you're now out. Jirka.h23 (talk) 18:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
No, he's clearly now out because of your hypocritical behaviour, since you refuse to listen to him. The whole Cyrax (no such character as Cyrex) and Sektor thing is irrelevant and you full well know it is. Why? Simple - Tanya. She was present in the Story Mode in Mortal Kombat X, and yet she is clearly listed in the Mortal Kombat X list as DLC...and yet you don't have a problem with that. If you insist that Cyrax and Sektor would not be considered DLC if they were made as such, but have no problems with Tanya being listed as such, then you're being completely hypocritical, which is no way to get your arguments across. Also, Shinnok is an unlockable character in X, but I don't hear you insisting he should be DLC. CBFan (talk) 18:49, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes you are repeating my arguments, I see you did not read this conversation. I have already claimed that: "Bo' Rai Cho or Tanya was also part of story mode in MKX and Goro was pre-order character, which could be later paid, and nobody dispute that they are an DLC characters". It is exactly the opposite, I am saying that Cyrax, Sektor, Tanya, Frost and Shao Kahn would be considered DLC. It is uKER, who insist that they are not DLC, because they are present in the story mode (in my opinion nonsense). Jirka.h23 (talk) 19:22, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
"Yes you are repeating my arguments, I see you did not read this conversation.". Wow, how mature. I clearly DID read this conversation. I thought we could just get to a reasonable discussion about this, but no, clearly you're just going to be childish about all this. And Frost is clearly not DLC, she is unlockable and thus clearly falls under the same category as Quan Chi and Shinnok....but of course you're not going to listen. CBFan (talk) 19:27, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
What is childish on that I warned you that you are wrong, bacause I didnt insist that they are not DLC, but uKER? You are repeating my arguments. Only childish reaction appears yours, I am just trying to argue with facts.Jirka.h23 (talk) 19:55, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
OK, first of all, Ferret just told us to stop before we both get blocked and the page locked completely. This is the exact opposite of stopping, so I'll make this quick. Second of all, you literally told me that I hadn't bothered to read the previous conversation even though I clearly had. That is technically very disrespectful. Especially considering I reached out to both of you on your talk pages to reach a peaceful agreement, to which you appear to have completely ignored. I have already made my point quite clear - Frost is not DLC, DLC and Unlockables are not compatible. Those are facts. And please don't be rude about it - literally the first comment on your talk page is someone asking you to be respectful. Now, as per Ferret's request, I'm stopping. CBFan (talk) 20:00, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
I have reverted all the false information. Shang Tsung is clearly not unlockable, so saying he is is completely false. CBFan (talk) 14:18, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Look, just throwing this out here, but wouldn't it be easier to set the character table out like that of Injustice 2? That way, there would be no confusion at all, all you'd need to do is tag them. CBFan (talk) 14:59, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, good point, I have specified it. Jirka.h23 (talk) 18:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
No, unlockables are not DLCs. I'll say this much - Shao Kahn could probably count as DLC because he falls under the same category as Goro in X, who is also in the DLC section. But Frost clearly is not. CBFan (talk) 18:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Ok thats why DLC and Unlockables. Jirka.h23 (talk) 19:22, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
No, because none of the other games have that. But since you're probably just going to be childish about this....CBFan (talk) 19:27, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

@Jirka.h23 and CBFan: Let's get back to discussion and not reverting. I don't want to have to protect this due to edit war. -- ferret (talk) 19:30, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm trying to get back to discussion - I'd hoped that I could mediate here by pointing out that, in other Netherealm games, other pre-order characters (like Goro in MKX and Darkseid in Injustice 2) are still listed as DLC, so in theory Shao Kahn should be too, but regardless, Frost is certainly not DLC as she is unlockable. I'm not the one telling lies. I mean, sure, I'll stop, but I know for a fact we shouldn't put DLCs and unlockables in the same section, because no other article on here does this. CBFan (talk) 19:34, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, please CBFan argue why they are not DLC, except from repeating my arguments about Tanya. Thanks. Jirka.h23 (talk) 19:36, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
I have already explained this to you....Frost does not belong in the DLC section and "Unlockables" should not belong with the DLC section. Frost is clearly an unlockable character, not DLC, so don't list her as DLC. Cyrax and Sektor would be considered DLC even though they are opponents in the base game. There are arguments for Shao Kahn being neither DLC or non-DLC, but the safest option says DLC, at least with Goro and Darkseid. CBFan (talk) 19:38, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
You did not explain anything, Frost can be downloaded and paid, therefore is clearly a DLC (Steam approved). On Shao Kahn we agree, now I am still waiting for your answer on Frost. Jirka.h23 (talk) 20:00, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
I did explain. I love how you tell me "I see you did not read this conversation." yet you appear to not have read a single thing I wrote, which is hypocritical. I clearly explained to you how these things worked in the previous games on your talk page. If Quan Chi is considered unlockable, if Shinnok is considered unlockable, then Frost is considered unlockable. CBFan (talk) 20:03, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
But Shinnok and Quan Chi are not available to pay and download as DLC characters. Frost is clearly considered DLC as being available to buy and download. What does mean term DLC to you? uKER argued with story mode, but you and I have the same opinion, being included in story mode does not mean to be excluded from category DLC category, same like others at the talk. I still see no argument to exclude her. Jirka.h23 (talk) 20:27, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
But Frost is an unlockable character. She just has the option to be unlocked sooner as DLC...and consistency with other fighting game articles would list her as unlockable, not DLC. We clearly don't have the same opinion on DLC - I clearly explained to you that Tanya is considered DLC in MKX, because no matter how hard you try, we can't unlock her, you have to download her. Frost, however, is clearly unlockable. CBFan (talk) 20:37, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Ok, so your argument is, that a DLC character that can be unlocked during gameplay, even if is available to buy and download, can not never be called DLC. Is it so? Jirka.h23 (talk) 21:13, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
No, my argument is that if a character can be unlocked during gameplay, they are an unlockable character. The DLC isn't to add the character, it's for the ability to unlock the character - there's actually a difference. Lots of other games feature the ability to unlock characters early through DLC, and they're still considered unlockable - yet you don't seem to have a problem with them. CBFan (talk) 21:16, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
No, I don't have problem with them there, because they are both. I am not sure now if I fully understand you. Again, why is Frost not DLC? Basically you are saying that if is something "unlockable", it can not be "DLC", right? Why for example here (or anywhere else) they are saying that DLC unlocks everything. Yet you are saying that "unlocks" does not mean "unlockable"? OMG. Jirka.h23 (talk) 22:13, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
No, you clearly do not understand. I clearly said that Frost is not DLC because what you are downloading is not Frost herself, but the ability to unlock her - she is clearly already in the base game, as proven by the fact that you can unlock her. I also clearly said that other articles where characters are unlockable yet still have the option to to be gotten early through DLC are considered unlockable, not DLC. Meanwhile, if Cyrax or Sektor were to become DLC then they, just like Tanya and Bo Rai Cho from MKX, would be considered DLC and not unlockable because their assets are not in the base game - whilst Tanya is an NPC in MKX, yes, the DLC is effectively a completely different make. Long story short, if a character is available in the base game, they are unlockable. If a character can only be acquired through a download, they are DLC. If there is a DLC that gives you an ability to unlock a character early, then the character is not DLC - the ability is DLC. (talk) 04:59, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Alright, let's discuss it in more depth, because this is not just about this topic, but to prevent future conflicts. As Uker noted it has been discussed in Wiki talk, why do not you join the conversation? Uker claimed that any content already existing in the game cannot then be considered DLC, even if it is available to buy, I said that I agree with others that it's a primary source to quote Steam and that you still pay to download a patch that updates the game to enable the existing content. I also argued that Cyrex & Sektor also existing in the game and when they will be available to buy and download, they would be also DLC (as Frost). Now it seems that you are futher expanding the definition that: content already existing in game which is also unlockable during gameplay is not DLC. Am I right? However, as I have said in the previous post, in RE it unlocks much content (campaign, character or skins) and it also can be unlockable by playing the game, yet nobody have problem to call it DLC. Nevertheless, I still agree with Ferret, that "Unlockable" would solve the case for now, because "unlockable" character is still unlockable by purchase. Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:09, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
I'll say it one more time: Steam using the term DLC to refer to any content unlocked by purchase doesn't make it so. Steam calls YouTube VR a video game just because it fits its distribution model for video games, but that won't make YouTube VR a video game by any stretch of the definition. That said, for anything to be considered DLC, it should trigger a file download when you purchase it. Neither Frost nor Shao Kahn triggers a file download. The story mode characters in previous MK games that you like to use as an argument were a particular case where they did appear in Story Mode, but they were entirely different character (in both model and move set) when they came out as playable. --uKER (talk) 12:21, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Again you come up with something new (you do not answer a single word of mine, but still repeating Steam - we all now what is your stance on Steam, I was talking to CBFan and I'm starting to lose patience). So back to the topic, now you are saying that those characters were entirely different, can you source your claim? Anyway, do you want to say, that from now on, we will have to judge how similar the characters are, to distinguish whether they are DLC or not (because you just do not like Steam)? When Cyrex comes out (in a similar form), then you will finally admit that he is DLC (same as Frost)? Nobody also answered why, if we say that content which is unlockable during gameplay is not DLC, in RE (and in many other cases) nobody have problem to call it DLC. Jirka.h23 (talk) 07:06, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
I already told you. It's not DLC if the purchase doesn't trigger a file download within Steam. --uKER (talk) 17:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
1. Can you source your claim that the characters were entirely different? 2. So how would you deal with future conflicts? Always prove that nothing is downloading? There is always something downloading. From how many kilobytes (megabytes) is it considered DLC and until how many it is not? PS games also have no Steam, how you distinguish them? You know, such a big claim should be adequately discussed and agreed in its own paragraph on Wiki talk. But in your talk no one seems to agree with you, just like me also they say that you still pay to download a patch (content) that updates the game to enable the existing content. 3. Why in RE (and in many other cases) nobody have problem to call it DLC, if this content is already existing in the game and can be unlocked during gameplay? Jirka.h23 (talk) 08:09, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
You're wrong. Neither Frost nor Shao Kahn appear as a file download on Steam. --uKER (talk) 12:16, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, but sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a wall. 1. Can you source that they do not appear as a file download on Steam? In my opinion there is always something downloading. How do you distinguish them in the future if you are not able to source your claim? 2. How do you distinguish them on PS4 if it does not have Steam. 3. Can you source your claim that the characters in previous MK games were entirely different? 4. In regards to the Unlockable/DLC - Resident Evil thing, it seems you no longer want to express yourself, so that means that you agree with me, right? Jirka.h23 (talk) 12:31, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
This is going nowhere. I refer you to present your issues [Talk:Mortal_Kombat_11#Organization_of_characters_list here]. --uKER (talk) 13:02, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
No, you refer to a completely different topic. This is going nowhere, because maybe this is what you want. Maybe you don't know me, but if I do believe that I'm right, then I am very persistent. And I can assure you, that if you argue enough, I promise to acknowledge your view, in this way, however, we did not solve anything and it will continue to cause conflicts in other games as well. I will reply to your comment below, however, I request that you reply to my last post (all query points) to finally solve this case. Jirka.h23 (talk) 13:57, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
  • HOT TAKE Just label it Unlockable, and use notes to denote HOW, such as "Paid Download". This is the biggest waste of time I've seen in a video game article debate in a while. Have the base roster, then the 3 "unlockables" with notes on "how to unlock", which includes paying. This avoids the problematic label of "DLC" altogether without losing any information. -- ferret (talk) 20:58, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
    Because, with all due respect, that's not how the other articles are set out. Every other article clearly marks the DLC characters as those who are DLC only and can't be unlocked in the game itself. Sin isn't considered DLC in Guilty Gear Xrd, and he falls under the same category as Frost does - if a character is unlockable, they are unlockable, if a character is DLC, they are DLC. Besides, I honestly feel UKER's got an acceptable compromise, although I don't see why we can't have it like Injustice 2's list. CBFan (talk) 21:10, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
    I agree with Ferret, and even tried to do it so. This could solve the case, but CBFan just dont like it. Jirka.h23 (talk) 21:20, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
    No, what it is is that you don't like what both myself and UKER proposed. I have done nothing but try and settle this as peacefully as possible, coming up with compromises using the way other Netherrealm games have their wikia articles set-up, and yet you keep insisting your way is the correct way. I have even already explained to you why Ferret's way doesn't work...and UKER has proposed his own way that completely negates any of the above issues, which you both seem to have completely ignored. CBFan (talk) 21:25, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
    What other articles do is not necessarily relevant here. There's no MOS or guideline here, so we can do what makes since here at this article. What Wikia/Fandom does is doubly irrelevant. As for "unlockable" versus "DLC"... An "unlockable" character might not be "DLC". A "DLC" character is always an "unlockable" character, unlockable by purchase. -- ferret (talk) 22:42, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
It is technically relevant, because it's consistent. Either way, as far as I'm concerned, we've come to a compromise. (talk) 05:02, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
This is a common mistake from newbies, Wikia and similar projects are not allowed here, also, they take usually content from Wikipedia. Jirka.h23 (talk) 05:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
OK, first of all, I am not a newbie. I have been contributing here since 2008, you have only been contributing here since 2011 - I have been contributing here FAR longer than you. Second of all, stop being so insultive. Third of all, I'm not talking about wikias and fandoms, am I? I'm clearly talking about the other articles on Wiki. Look - and How are the way these articles set-up "not relevant"? (talk) 09:03, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
I did not said that you are a newbie, I said that this is common mistake from newbies. Why are you doing this is a mystery, because we with Ferret are not blind and see that you mentioned Wikia in your previous post. Second of all, it is not me who is insultive, in your almost every post you called me childish or hypocritical, and that's just because I warned you that you are wrong, saying that I am the one who do not consider them DLC, in fact it was exactly the opposite. This also insist that you have not read the discussion at all, or not carefully, what's wrong with it? I warn you stop insulting others, I found it offensive and against Wiki policy, it is also disrupting this discussion. Jirka.h23 (talk) 10:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, and by Wikia, I clearly meant the Wikipedia articles. It's not my fault they have the same name, OK? And yes, you did call me a newbie. And I only called you childish/hypocritical because you flat-out dismissed UKER when he gave up trying to reason with you...which is childish and is hypocritical. And I am not keep saying Frost is DLC when she is not....a method to unlock her is DLC, but not Frost herself. I have explained this to you countless times, why don't you understand this? You are ironically doing the very thing you are blaming me for doing, and I am not engaging in this nonsense any more whilst you continue to call me names. We have a compromise now. Just work with it. End of discussion. (talk) 10:52, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
No, I did not call you newbie, I said that newbies are doing it. And no, Wikia is something different than Wikipedia with different name. End of discussion (this is childish behavior, which I am just borowing from you, lol). Jirka.h23 (talk) 12:26, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
But seriously, I do not have time for this, I will look at your arguments about Frost more closely after work, because I am not sure if I understand your view completely, now I can only reflect your personal attacks. Jirka.h23 (talk) 12:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I just feel the need to point out, UKER has currently set the article out so it's divided between "Initial Roster" (which includes Frost and Shao Kahn) and "Kombat Pack 1" (which has Shang Tsung), thus removing any issues regarding what is what. Are we OK with how it stands at the moment? In that aspect it's a lot like how Street Fighter V's character list is set out. CBFan (talk) 21:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

It works for today. It doesn't work in a few months if there's Kombat Pack 2 through 10. The table will expand vastly horizontally which will not be great for mobile readers. -- ferret (talk) 22:42, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Same thing can happen if they release a character with more than 300 letters in its name with no spaces. I say we don't list the character names at all. There, solved. --uKER (talk) 00:47, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Don't make asinine disruptive comments. How about that. -- ferret (talk) 00:49, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Sure, like the argument about the need to foresee the game getting 10 Kombat Packs was really helpful. --uKER (talk) 01:09, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Accessibility is actually very important, over 50% of readers are on mobile. As I said, it works for today. If they release a lot of packs though, we'll have to revisit. There's nothing sarcastic or disruptive about it, it's a pure true statement. Unlike proclaiming we should remove all names in case they release one with 300 characters in it. -- ferret (talk) 01:11, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
We're been trying to reach an agreement for WAY too long here. I'd say it's no good presenting a new alleged issue that would at best present itself several years down the road, if ever, considering the most character packs a Mortal Kombat game has ever got is 3. --uKER (talk) 01:14, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Sorry for being bitter tho. It's just that this discussion has worn me out beyond belief. --uKER (talk) 01:24, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
You're just barking a bit up the wrong tree here, if you've read my comment you know I support removing the DLC label to get rid of the ambiguity. -- ferret (talk) 01:25, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry about that. --uKER (talk) 02:11, 9 May 2019 (UTC)


Ps4 metascore is 2.7/10 at this moment. users are critiquing large discrepancies in character traits from past titles, to have the developer call them "not true fans"(paraphrase). And a pay to win unlock system being too aggressive.

I cant make any changes because wikipedia's really isnt open source these days (everything is locked for "vandalism") Dartman1313 (talk) 20:26, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

You should be able to edit any article that isn't protected or semi-protected, and this one certainly is not. --uKER (talk) 04:11, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
I would have if I could. But its locked for vandalism. And I assume I need to make a handful of edits before I'm allowed to make changes on protected pages. But everything I stumble upon is protected, or doesnt need a fix... so it's like running for president while being exiled.

Either way this videogame is positive in critic reviews and a bomb in user reviews on metacritic and rotten. Most likely (I would put this in the article tho) because critics enjoy the videogame as a non fan, but fans have been cheated. Think of the new starwars movie or battlefield game and that's this games reception. Dartman1313 (talk) 15:18, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Meant to say "would not put it in" without a direct quote. Oh, now I've made my 10th edit and the page is no longer locked. So dumb...Dartman1313 (talk) 15:19, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

I added some notice about the review bombing that took place. Also, I didn't really understand what you said, but again, you should be able to edit the article, as it's definitely not protected. --uKER (talk) 20:21, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

User scores not being coveredEdit

About this edit, I understand user scores are not normally covered here, but I'd say review bombing should, as it's a reflection of the masses' sentiment towards the game. --uKER (talk) 20:54, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

It has to be covered by a reliable secondary source. Unfortunately, Forbes contributors are considered unreliable. See WP:VG/S. -- ferret (talk) 01:19, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

UK sales chartEdit

Game got to number 2 in the UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:35, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Fate of Shao KahnEdit Shao Kahn is still alive just blinded.

Well, it's legit. Here is the original tweet. --uKER (talk) 15:21, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Organization of characters listEdit

Here goes this, hoping to bring this discussion back into focus: I feel the current layout reflects the game's reality; that is, at launch the game presents a grid of 25 characters (also seen in the Krypt's head stakes), 2 of them locked. Then, Shang Tsung is presented in another category, as he has been announced to be part of the game's first expansion pack. For this reason, I feel that the current text neither presents any inaccuracies, nor lacks any relevant information. Then again, if anyone feels any improvement can be made to this layout, feel free to present their reasons. --uKER (talk) 12:47, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The current layout is better than it was before (to exclude them from DLC ) and avoids the problematic label of DLC, however, where will go Shao Kahn (or Frost), after he will be released with the new Kombat Pack 1 or 2? Same like Goro was released in KP2 in MKX, and was also playable as pre-order bonus. What Ferret proposed (and me) really could solve the case at least for now, as "Unlockable" character is still unlockable by purchase. Jirka.h23 (talk) 14:09, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
In the eventuality of Shao Kahn being added to a Kombat Pack, it can be noted the corresponding footnote. The key here is to define the groups based on criteria that doesn't generate overlap. If you try to do too much and define categories that make it so that a character can be in more than one of them, the whole thing quickly starts to break apart and make no sense. eg: trying to create a separate category for unlockables would make it so that Shao Kahn and Frost would supposedly be both unlockable and initial roster. Also, do that and they'd probably need to be together with Shang Tsung, as they once were, and you lose track of which are the 25 characters mentioned to compose the initial roster. The current layout only pays attention to whether characters were there from the beginning or are to be introduced by a character pack, managing to avoid any inaccuracies or amgibuities. Any additional info (which is pretty minimal) can be filled in via notes. It would be nice to have both ferret's and CBFan's opinion. --uKER (talk)
I... don't like the term "initial roster". If I load up the game, without buying anything extra, I only have 23 characters I can "initially" use. Shao Kahn and Frost are not available to me, "initially", unless I pay money (or beat story mode for Frost). "Initially Available" versus "Unlockables" would not have overlap though. Alternatively, "Launch Lineup" could clear up my dislike for "initial" -- ferret (talk) 16:14, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
If you check out sources 15, 16 and 17 in the article, they all say the roster is 25 characters. If you're not OK with the term, we can find one that sits better with you, but I'd like to keep the grouping to those 25 characters. --uKER (talk) 20:18, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Ferret and uKER, in which category do you think that Shao Kahn (and Frost) will be after he is released in KP1 or KP2 (like Goro in MKX)? I'd say we all agree that in KP, so this means that he (or they) is now in wrong category and will be moved. Really "Initially available" and "Unlockables" sounds much better. Jirka.h23 (talk) 18:31, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Your questioning is an appropriate one, and I'm not sure about the answer. Putting them under Kombat Pack would suggest that they weren't available before said Kombat Pack was released, an inaccuracy I wouldn't be too happy with either (I'm not too happy with Goro being in MKX KP2 as you edited it to be, but I won't change it because I honestly don't have a better proposal). --uKER (talk) 20:18, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Why did they not add Kung Jin and TekedaEdit

Come on this 2 knuckleheads should of been part of MK11.I mean Kung Lao's cousin and Kenshi's son Kinshara (talk) 18:15, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

The developers' leftist "de-desexualizing" agendaEdit

I believe the far-left "de-sexualizing" political agenda of the developers should be mentioned in this article. They did an interview for the far-left gaming site Polygon where they openly bragged about the female characters being, in their words, "de-sexualized" because it was more "realistic" that way, all the while continuing to keep the male characters scantily-clad because of "benevolent sexism." [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mediawayne (talkcontribs) 19:30, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

@Mediawayne: Read WP:Reliable sources and the community's assessment on a variety of sources.
Polygon has an editorial team and fact-checking procedures. One Angry Gamer is an opinionated blog that gets hits by emotionally manipulating its readers with sensationalist spin. If you can't see how the former is considered reliable and the latter is not, the problem isn't every single member of the Wikipedia community, it's the echo chamber you've trapped yourself in.
If you think it's offensive that they treat the female characters as something more than or other than sex objects for you to fap to, but that they still allow the male characters (whose personalities and plots are otherwise developed) to be attractive to female and gay audiences, is this because you don't like being treated the way women have usually been treated by the gaming industry? Gosh, maybe your offense is hypocrisy that should prompt you to consider what sort of media you support? Nah, that'd require operating outside of your own biases.
If you think Polygon (website) is "far-left," where would you place Breitbart News on the political spectrum? How about InfoWars? How about Stormfront (website)? Ian.thomson (talk) 21:54, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
While I certainly think Mediawayne has his own agenda and biases, and obviously wants his own slanted view reflected in the article, that doesn't act as an excuse this kind of behavior. Please don't engage in condescending and actively hostile remarks or insults like you've done here. Being frustrated at a user or thinking their point is ridiculous should never be met with calling them a hypocrite, accusing them of merely wanting masturbation fuel and saying they're in an echo-chamber, regardless if it's true or not. You could have tried to engage with him and asked him to explain his reasoning in a civil manner. It's unlikely he would have said something insightful, but you would have given him enough rope to hang himself, potentially allowing him to disqualify his own argument entirely. You're achieving absolutely nothing positive by acting this way. You're an admin, an IP user like me shouldn't have to tell you this. (talk) 06:27, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Dev trauma?Edit

I noticed the 'controversies' section doesn't cover this. The game picked up an considerable amount of controversy among gaming sites and general news outlets such as Kotaku, The Sun and The Daily Dot for making artists watch actual gore and snuff videos as references for the game's fatalities, to the point of seriously detrimental effects of the developers' mental health, one of whom was diagnosed with PTSD because of it. There are many well-written sources from respectable outlets about this. I feel the section should be expanded to mention it, I'm surprised it isn't meantioned already. (talk) 05:48, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

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