Talk:Mongols Motorcycle Club/Archive 1

Archive 1

April 2008

". There is no other relationship between the historical ethnic group the Mongols and the Mongols motorcycle club other than the shared name, unless you also take into consideration the fact that many members of the club are of aboriginal and/or Spanish ancestry, and also consider the theory that the indigenous peoples of North and South America are descended from peoples of the Mongoloid races who, according to this popular theory, crossed the Bering Strait several tens of thousands of years ago." I deleted the above excerpt. It was very, very, VERY unnecessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.179.78.41 (talk) 01:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Gang vs. Club

I reverted the change in category from Motorcycle Club to Motorcycle Gang. The Mongols are, in fact, a motorcycle club. The term motorcycle gang has no concensus definition. Mmoyer 02:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

they are a violent gang, motorcycle or not. don't let them fool you with anything else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.114.109.62 (talk) 17:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Mongols in Canada??

To the best of our knowledge here, there are no (still living) Mongols who have a chapter in Canada. I too, seem to recall visiting their website a while back and seeing that they claimed to have a chapter (or chapters) here. If you visit their website now, this claim is no longer being made, so I've deleted this claim from the article. Since most of the larger independent gangs based in Canada have either been patched over to the Hells Angels or (in some cases) to the Outlaws, in other cases disbanded, Canada is now firmly HA's territory from coast-to-coast, unlike previously when they only controlled BC and Quebec. The Outlaws still have some pockets of control in Ontario, and apparently the Bandidos made some inroads here, but not sure how many remaining members the Bandidos still have in Canada after that recent bloodbath. The vast majority of other existing clubs that haven't been patched over are operating as puppet clubs for either the Angels or the Outlaws, most likely the Angels.

The Mongols, as tough as they claim to be, wouldn't dare ride around in Canada flying their colours, or, if they had dared, we would likely have already heard about the subsequent violence on the news.Garth of the Forest 22:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay; I've just visited the Mongols website again today and am perplexed. They show the Canadian flag on their homepage, but don't list anywhere in or even near Canada under "Chapters". Maybe they're planning to expand their Chapter 13? :)

Seriously, all joking aside, my guess is they've done that (put the Canadian flag on their website) solely to annoy the Hells Angels, a favorite pasttime for the Mongols. If anyone can verify a Mongols sighting in Canada, or provide a reference that shows their extended presence here, I'd be very surprised, yet interested to see the reference material. Garth of the Forest 22:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I think that either they have a chapter somewhere but aren't saying (a common practice) or their nomads may be around somewhere trying to prospect some members to form a charter. Just MHO. I think its okay for the article to say Canada as long as it's on their website. Mmoyer 02:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted my change (to remove the reference to Mongol chapter(s) in Canada) because - you are right - the way the article was worded originally it referred to where the Mongols claim to have chapters as per their website. I've also made some minor changes to the overall wording of the article to help the flow; I hope y'all concur. Garth of the Forest 21:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

there were 122 arrest warrants issued today in the county of L.A. alone. They are clearly a gang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.57.77.114 (talk) 16:18, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The Mongols have chapters in Toronto and Niagra Falls. www.mongolsmccanada.com

There are Mongols that freely show their colors in Vancouver. Most are from WA, USA, but they may be trying to establish a Vancouver charter (http://www.mongolsmcccanada.123guestbook.com/). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.181.226.51 (talk) 22:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• They were not trying to start a Vancouver, Canada Charter. The Vancouver Charter is from Vancouver, Wa, USA. The Mongols MC no longer have legitimate Canadian charters per: http://www.mongolsmc.com/press_post/mongols-mc-canada.98.176.119.45 (talk) 23:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

It's just a website and any 12 year old can make a web site. Children and crazy people and hoaxers make quite nice looking web sites all the time. See WP:Reliable sources for what sort of thing does meet Wikipedia's standards for references. Hope that helps. --Dbratland (talk) 22:55, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

True; however the fact that it is the official Mongol Nation website and reference is to a press release about the specific topic at hand, shall we concede it to be much more likely to be accurate than many of the other questionable sources cited? I estimate that as of today there are approximately the same number of Mongol MC patched members in Canada as there are Bigfoot. However, my original research and common sense approach do not meet Wikipedia's standards. However, I must remind editors that if a reliable source can not be cited for inclusion of material, that means the material should be excluded from the article, not included just for the fun of it until proven false, or until a reliable source can be found. Garth of the Forest (talk) 08:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

How's this for a Canadian source: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/mongols_indictment.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.116.217 (talk) 08:27, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

It's a great source. Supports what I've been saying. The only reference to Canada in that indictment is about a taped conversation in which an American Mongol was sent to beat up a "poser" up in Canada. I rest my case. Mongol nation official website confirms my information. The Mongols were even less successful than the Bandidos in establishing a presence in Canada; at least Bandidos made some headlines (and we're not talking of the charity fund raising variety). ;-) Garth of the Forest (talk) 08:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Their updated official web page has a Toronto, Canada charter listed. http://www.mongolsmc.com/chapters98.176.234.126 (talk) 02:26, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I removed Canada from the list of international charters, since the Mongols have just recently (July 2010) shut down their Canadian Charter in Toronto. This news comes from their website: http://www.mongolsmc.com/press_post/mongols-mc-canada. At one time they did have a Toronto charter, but the charter was recently revoked in bad standing.98.176.116.13 (talk) 01:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Removed the Canadian Charter once again, since Mongols MC revoked the Canadian clubs (http://www.mongolsmc.com/press_post/mongols-mc-canada).98.176.119.45 (talk) 23:45, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

• Mongols do still have Canadian chapters. Right now the Mongols from the US and the Mongols from Canada are feuding with each other. The Mother Chapter in Los Angeles, CA has revoked all the Canadian Mongols' memberships, but the Canadian Mongols have refused to drop their association. It has become a stand off. That is probably note worthy, and both websites (the international Mongols MC website, and the Canadian Mongols MC website) could be used as citable sources. I think that Canada should still be listed with this note.98.176.233.118 (talk) 09:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

• Mongols Canada no longer exists as of December 2010. The Mongols Chapters in Canada folded after the US revoked the membership of the Canadian Mongols chapters. Ex-members from the Canadian Mongols chapters started a new motorcycle club called "Forty Thieves MC."98.176.233.118 (talk) 02:42, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

"Rivals"

Where is there any citations about the "rivals" of this club? Where did these ideas originate? The Outlaws MC and the Pagans MC are listed as being rivals of the Mongols MC, and I see no proof of that. In fact, the Mongols MC website has links to not one but two Outlaws MC pages. That doesn't sound like something a 1%er club would do (have links to clubs they don't get along with.)

If you can't cite a source, it shouldn't be listed. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a forum where people can babble opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.168.46.142 (talk) 15:20, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Mongols, Outlaws, Bandidos, and Pagans all get along.98.176.118.67 (talk) 08:16, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Mongols get along with the Vagos MC, Bandidos MC, Pagans MC, and Outlaws MC. the only rivalries that I know of are the Hells Angels MC and Gypsy Jokers MC.98.176.116.217 (talk) 01:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Please read wikipedia's policy on original research. tedder (talk) 06:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mongols logo.jpg

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BetacommandBot 06:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)t

mongols mc/feds/atf

the government and the atf need to let these and other motorcycle clubs alone and quit calling them a gang. I ride and am tired of being racially profiled by these pigs and lets not forget who it was that murdered those people in waco, ruby ridge and oklahoma city, the atf.65.164.18.10 (talk) 07:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

there not a club, they are a violent gang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.114.109.62 (talk) 17:25, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

In the interest of preventing endless edit wars, the general consensus among frequent editors of articles about "outlaw motorcycle gangs" is to refer to them as motorcycle clubs or outlaw motorcycle clubs, to maintain a NPOV. For those that have been designated criminal organizations by American law enforcement (or in Canada, by Criminal Intelligence Service Canada)and successfully prosecuted, either under RICO, or in Canada using provisions provided for in bill C-95, it would be appropriate to make a reference to this fact somewhere in the article. Otherwise, please use the word "club". Garth of the Forest (talk) 19:03, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

What consensus are you referring to? I'd like this question to have a better resolution but as far as I know it hasn't been settled. Other than the general WP policy of calling things by their common name -- that is, the general public knows the Mongols as a motorcycle gang, so that's what they're called. Is there any sort of policy or consensus or whatever you can point to that says it hinges on a particular country's organized crime prosecutions? --Dbratland (talk) 20:48, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

We should rather refer to it as a lack of consensus. As user MMoyer has pointed out repeatedly on these discussion boards on related articles, there is no consensus definition of what is an "outlaw motorcycle gang". Most of the members and supporters of these organizations take exception to being called "gangs". With the exception of early patches for the Bandidos (or was it the Outlaws?), which had a M.G. patch on the jacket (short for "motorcycle gang"), all of these clubs now use the abbreviation M.C. on their colors. The word "gang" is a pejorative term in this regard so in the interest of focusing on the facts at hand as available from verifiable sources, please use the term "outlaw motorcycle club" when referencing the so-called "one-percenter three piece patch clubs" in interest of presenting a balanced point of view and avoiding endless edit wars. In everyday language many of us will refer to these groups as gangs. Fair enough. But in every day speech many of us also refer to police as "pigs" and yet I doubt you would propose to use the word "pigs" instead of "police" in every article about law enforcement agencies. Besides, with regard to the OMC, not all of them are involved in "organized crime", although most of the smaller independent clubs who weren't previously heavily into serious crime back in the sixties, seventies, or even up to present day - most of those clubs have either been absorbed by, subordinated to, or disbanded by the "Big Four" (in my country, by the Hells Angels primarily) - the OMC version of the corporate takeover. If we include enough reliable sources in these articles that show links to organized criminal activity we can let readers reach their own conclusions about whether these groups are primarily criminal in nature and intent or, as some would like us to believe, just a bunch of Harley enthusiasts who like to give teddy bears to sick kids. Another example would be calling the early American revolutionaries "terrorists" - while technically accurate from the British perspective at the time, it is offensive to many, represents just one point of view, and therefore is in violation of NPOV. Garth of the Forest (talk) 08:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Laughlin

First off, in the first paragraph, "and they have been quoted by corrupt ATF agents as being "violent and dangerous" makes no sense whatsoever. I'd rewrite it if I knew what was meant.

Later on it says that "it was clear the HA came looking for the Mongols" (to that effect). A friend of mine who was there all the time said just the exact opposite. I'd suggest that is a statement that depends on who you are talking to...Jjdon (talk) 23:21, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

^^^^^Agreed about perspective, but:

HA's went to look for Mongols, literally just after a HA from the Dago Charter was killed on his way home to San Diego (from the Laughnlin River Run) by a "suspected" Mongol. Not only that, Mongols MC were in the casino BEFORE the HA's arrived. So, I would say that the HA went out to look for Mongols. I don't support either club, that's just the facts that were brought to light after a fed wiretap.24.181.226.51 (talk) 22:58, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

they are a bunch of criminals and deserve everything they get and worse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.114.109.62 (talk) 17:22, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

That Hells Angel that from San Diego was killed AFTER the Harrah's Brawl. Not before the riot. But, the HA's initiated the casino riot when they went to look for the Mongols. The Mongols were staying at Harrah's, while the Angels were across town in another casino. 98.176.234.126 (talk) 02:33, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

U.S. GOV. VS. THE PEOPLE

I agree with the comments on this page not all of them but many. The u.s. gov tries to make these motorcycle clubs to look as if they are a threat to society more than themselves. What about the orrupt racist police, cia involved in cocaine cartels, training terrorist, fbi shooting at native americans and killing them for their land, u.s. presidents bombing countries killikng thousands of people. The "motorcycle gangs" are a threat more than they are. cops kill when they want. Terrorism is now what we are focused on. Why? becasue it is very dangerous and a serious issue for all of us as americans. The mafia is the mafia they bomb and kill and shit. The blaks sell drugs commit crimes have their gangsters like frank lucas and tookie williams. The Russian mafia, Chinese, and white americans commit crimes, some of them racist and psychopathic. In california mexican gangs are "terrorsit" groups the Mongols are striped of their right to belong to a group like the hells angels, outlaws, pagans, bandidos and warlocks, but no fuck that the mongols are a threat to society and can never wear the mongol symbol. I think that all of these motorcycle clubs began with good intentions and we the society encouraged them to continue their lifestyle of riding free like a bird. Now that trip has ended and we have this problem it is not understandable why the mongols loose their pathces and not these other clubs who are just as guilty as they are one way or the other. turkish vitali

Girl Friend a Mongol Officer

I have been with a Officer of the Mongals now for 6 months. I have also been befriended by the Mongols in my work place. I hold a GM position in a casino and I'm hear to tell you these men are the kindest most caring family men I've ever met. They are very polite to all of my employees and my family. They in my opinion are being treated very unfairly! Why should these men have there Patch stripped from them? They are no different than any other Club. Just with all clubs there are those who do wrong and all must pay for it. The men of this club that I know very well! go to work everyday and come home to there families every night. There not out there causing trouble or sitting in bars. There good honest men that deserve to were there patches. Why is it that the goverment does'nt take all the patches then? If all "GANGS" are dirty evil and rotten then take all the "GANG" patches and if not leave the Mongols alone. The Hells Angels are in my opinion the dirtiest of all the "Gangs". Why do they get off? They have the monies to pay off anyone needed to pay! From what? Drugs,Prositution,Ect! Now how fair is that? Come on lets look at the big picture! Not every man that wears a club patch does wrong. Not to say that some don't! I agree but look at the men that wear them and not the reason because we can. There are so many dirty officers ATF Agents,ect I say we take there patches too! Why not they do wear patches so take them as well.20:29, 20 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.182.52.11 (talk)

If ANYONE needs real interviewed info on the Mongols, just watch the episodes of "Gangland". It has exclusive interviews and the real histories of every single gang out there. The Mongols, are said to the "most vicious", and the Hells Angels are the most "numerous", therefore "powerful". The Mongols are apparently the most vicious seeing the amount of power they have even with their numbers being only one sixth (1/6th) of the size of the Hells Angels. This reputation is similar to the Pagans, whose numbers are also low, and rely on stealth for power. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.152.184 (talk) 04:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Gangland isn't really a reliable resource on any gangs. That program tends to generalize too much, and it also pulls more form LE perspective and knowledge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.181.226.51 (talk) 23:01, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Mongols in Canada

www.mongolsmccanada.com

Hope that clears up whether the Mongols really have chapters in Canada now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.68.248.162 (talk) 09:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• No, but this does: http://www.mongolsmc.com/press_post/mongols-mc-canada. It explains that the chapters in Canada are no longer accepted by the rest of the Mongols MC, and it explains that legal action is being south to shut down the unapproved Canadian Mongol website. Canadian Mongol chapters have been revoked.98.176.119.45 (talk) 23:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Twice

The same paragraph occurs twice, admittedly with different references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.116.138 (talk) 12:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC) The caption is "Criminal Activities". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.116.138 (talk) 12:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC) I have removed the repetition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.34.71 (talk) 12:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

RfC started to discuss replacing Criminal Org Infobox with Org Infobox

Please comment on an RfC to replace Template:Infobox Criminal organization with Template:Infobox Organization for active motorcycle clubs. Thanks! --Dbratland (talk) 20:50, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

IMHO, to use the Criminal Organization template on a group that has many (or even just 1)law abiding members is a blatant WP:BLP violation and should never have been done in the first place. Please replace the template. Cheers. L0b0t (talk) 22:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The Mongols *are* a criminal organization. Proxy User (talk) 07:09, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

State and International Charters

In regards to: "It has its main presence in southern California. It also has chapters in US states of Nevada, Oklahoma, Colorado, Arizona, Montana, Oregon, New York, Indiana, Florida and Virginia, and in the countries of Australia, Canada, Germany, Italy and Mexico."

Updated the state charters (added Washington, Utah, and Pennsylvania), removed Australia (must have meant Austria). An Austrian charter is currently trying to be established, but it does not exist yet. All of this info was taken directly off their website (http://www.mongolsmc.com/chapters). 98.176.234.126 (talk) 02:55, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I changed it to simply say "14 states". It's in 1/3rd of states, no need to list all of them unless there's an encyclopedic reason to do so. tedder (talk) 03:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Awesome, it reads better! Thanks!98.176.234.126 (talk) 03:15, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

looks like the Feds are taking that thing apart

No more Covina chapter. San Diego folded. All their old presidents are gone or in jail. Looks like enough pressure and they finally crumbled (or obliterated themselves). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.143.128 (talk) 10:46, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

• The San Diego (Dago) chapter did not fold. In fact, there are now two chapters in San Diego: Dago and Old South Bay. See: http://www.mongolsmc.com/chapters/usa/california for the Dago and Old South Bay chapters.98.176.119.45 (talk) 23:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Edits

Removed international chapters as: Australia, Netherlands, Scandinavia. As per the Mongols MC officil website (http://www.mongolsmc.com/chapters), there are only international chapters in Germany, Italy, and Mexico. Austria (not Australia) has not been established as a full patch chapter yet.98.176.119.45 (talk) 23:52, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

-Added Australia as an international chapter, since Mongols have now included the Australian Central Coast chapter on their website.98.176.233.118 (talk) 18:29, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect data in the MONGOLS MC fact sheet

I have no idea how to correct all those incorrect data on the Mongols page.

I have many original images of the club, founder, president, vp and the ORIGINAL Patch designed by the founder and graphics by the club's vice president. The club was NOT founded by Hispanics and had nothing to do with them until they infiltrated the club and turned it into a criminal activity. The club was founded in 1967 in Hollywood, California and it had no Hispanics or any other race but Caucasians (78 members)(name of founder withheld) and there are many photos available to post if anyone interested to help out, with the CORRECT story and not what's listed right now is a total fiction! The club also had exellent relationship with many outlaw bike clubs icluding the Hells Angels, Chosen Few, Jokers and the rest because this club was NOT an outlaw club.

The club members hang out on Sunset Blvd and near Laurel Canon Blvd, next to a Union Station inHollywood, California at a place called: Dog House (selling hot dogs)now it's gone and a car wash occupies the location (year 2000).

I'd appreciate it if someone can help me upload correct data and images to correct this fiction of someone's imagination about the Mongols. Cp3o2 (talk) 02:32, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi. The best thing to do would be to share reliable sources demonstrating this. Examples of this are newspaper articles, books, or even gang task force investigations. tedder (talk) 02:46, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

To expand a little bit on what Tedder said:

Wikipedia doesn't publish original research, so if you have nothing but your personal experiences and observations, then you're in the wrong venue. Please read Wikipedia:No original research. Your best bet would be to contact newspapers, magazines, or authors who write about outlaw motorcycle clubs and see if they'll publish your material. If, on the other hand, your information comes from sources that others can verify, then you just need to give enough information about those sources to help verify it. Please read WP:Verifiability. If your source is a book, magazine, newspaper, etc., you'd just state the title, date, author, page number, etc. so that someone like me or anybody else, could find that publication and verify it. The definition of what sources are good enough and which ones are not is explained in WP:Identifying reliable sources. Basically, recognized experts or mainstream media are reliable sources. Anonymous people posting their opinions and ideas on the Internet are usually not reliable.

About the photos: if you are the photographer -- you took the pictures yourself -- or copyright owner of images -- you paid the photographer for the rights to the photos -- that you wish to share, go to WikiMedia Commons Upload. You should not upload images that someone else owns the copyright to, and you should realize that by donating the photos to Wikipedia, you'll be allowing others to copy your photos free of charge. Only upload images that you know meet these requirements.

Keep in mind that uploading photos as a way of getting around the restriction against original research isn't going to work. If you have photos which are consistent with facts that can be verified, fine, but if you're using your photos to build a case that can't be otherwise verified, then you need to go back and follow my first suggestion, which is to get in touch with someone in the media who can publish your research.

If you read the articles I linked to, and you have questions, please ask and someone will help. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 02:51, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you kindly for the info. but this is getting too complicated for me. I have no idea how Wicki 'verified' the source for the desrciption of the MONGOLS when I am the true source of the club with proof of original photos/patch design, etc. I have in my posession original photos that I took in 1967-1968 of the club membership and activities in Hollywood, California where it originated.

Well, this is a catch-22 and may as well forget to correct the fiction about the original club and how it was founded. It was not founded by Hispanics and all 60 plus early members were Cauc. race. There were no Hispanics bike riders that I know of back then. The club was not a segregated unit but no other people joined in but Caucasians but it was open to any race, we had one black member and some riders from the CHOSEN FEW, an all black MC were friends and at times ride with us. There is a real important history to this club and will never be published because I am the original SOURCE and can not list it myself. If anyone interested to post what I can recite as the club's history, providing all the identifiable photos as proof of the club's activity. Cp3o2 (talk) 03:24, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

It's not a Catch 22. It's just that this is Wikipedia, and what you're looking for is somewhere else. The newspapers in California write about the Mongols all the time. I would call them. Email them. Find an article about he Mongols in the newspaper and email or phone the reporter. Mike Aldax at the San Francisco Examiner, for example. Jennifer McLain at the Contra Cost Times. Joe Garofoli at the SF Chronicle. Somebody will call you back if you're persistent. Or contact an author. You contact authors by bugging their publisher. I'd try William Queen or Douglas Century, care of Random House. Or Ross Coulthart, Duncan McNab, Arthur Veno, or Ed Gannon, all care of Allen & Unwin publishers. All of them have written books in the last few years on the topic.

You have to be persistent to get someone to listen. The reason misinformation doesn't get corrected is because usually people are too lazy to do what it takes. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:48, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey, Thanks Dennis, I think I just pass on this, it's not really worth more of my time. However, I do understand the process now and why it has to be this way :) Cp3o2 (talk) 04:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

CHOSEN FEW isn't all black and they had a couple charters that were mostly non-black. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.83.38 (talk) 01:25, 5 July 2011 (UTC) There is still alot of old timers from those couple of charters still around. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.83.38 (talk) 01:27, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

• Mongols MC was started by whites and Mexican Americans. Al Aceves (a Mexican American) was a original memeber, and his story can be found on this youtube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFFl-Eqr7Tk&feature=related — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.176.117.103 (talk) 20:40, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I removed the bit Hispanic roots as it was not in the reference given.

Cp3o2, in plain English the rule is you can repeat crap as long as some asshole has written in the media or, apparently, a police report first. Given how much crap the media has published about bikers, that is bad news.

What he is tell you is that before you can write it here, you have to get a journalist to write it first but you can always say what it is here and then we can see if we can find evidence of it elsewhere. --Bridge Boy (talk) 05:10, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

In plain English, Wikipedia treats everything written by "journalists" or written in a book as true even if its false. Normal people are assumed to be liars. Firsthand evidence is always assumed to be worthless. The joke is that its very easy to manufacture "truth" for Wikipedia. Bribe someone to write a story or write the story yourself and get a journalist to publish it under their name. Create an official looking web-page and put up your information there. Or just give a reference a source that someone would have to go to a physical library to check. 12.12.144.130 (talk) 21:46, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Countries

Changed with charters in 14 states, as well as international charters in 13 countries. Mongols have chapters in 15 countries per the sources sited: Australia, Belgium, England, Finland, France (Reunion Island), Germany, Israel, Italy, Malaysia, Mexico, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Thailand, and USA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.244.116 (talk) 02:26, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Billy King Jr. ATF Agent goes by the Name of Russell Davis Wasilla Alaska Works for Kupik Artic Catering Conoc Phillips  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.29.24 (talk) 00:13, 5 May 2013 (UTC) 

Fallout reference?

This is speculation on my part, but the Great Khans of Fallout: New Vegas appear to be modeled on the Mongols. They dress like bikers, they're active in the greater Mojave area, they deal drugs, and of course, they have a Mongol theme (more info from the Fallout Wikia). For now it's OR, but maybe something to look in to. --BDD (talk) 16:39, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Mongols Hispanic and Native American???

That source is faulty. Many Mongols are white. Though the gang is by no means exclusively white, there are definitely more than a fair amount of white members

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKofhqAOp-Y

In this link, we see former Mongols president Roger Pinney, clearly a white male. The 2 Mongol gang members taken into custody after arrested for an attempted murder (26:45) are also white males. Also Mongol Christopher Ablett at 34:10. Once again, a white male. Also, ATF Agent William Queen who infiltrated the Mongols MC. Would they really have a white guy infiltrate an MC that didn't have any white members?

AKenjiB (talk) 08:01, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Could be, but see Passing (racial identity), which is not at all uncommon among Hispanic or Native American populations. --BDD (talk) 22:06, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Hell's Angels vs. Mongols war

Every source I look at mentions (briefly) an early '70's "war" between the Angels and Mongols over territory in California, the right to the CA bottom rocker patch, the right to establish a Berdoo chapter, etc. I am new to this information, having only read a few books, one over 40 years ago. Out of all of the contributors here, surely someone knows this story. History isn't history if major portions are omitted. Just sayin'... Rags (talk) 23:44, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

In the 1970s, two independent bikers from Georgia were killed by the Hells Angles during an attempt to join. Chester Green, an Angel at the time, cooperated with the police. Afterward, he joined the Mongols. His brother (Bud Green) also joined. Bud Green got involved with one of the Angel's women and then showed up with a bunch of Mongols at an event where the Angels were. There was a fight. The Angels LA chapter president then stepped down and was replaced by a guy with a serious meth problem.

The Mongols then (1977) put the California Rocker on. Two Mongols (Emerson Morris and Raymond Smith) were killed on I-15 near San Diego and then the funeral was bombed (3 wounded). A couple months later, there was a bombing of a motorcycle shop which killed a brother of a Mongol. The Angels president was eventually killed - supposedly because he was going to cooperate with police to save himself. The Mongols didn't back down and fixed their problems by lowering standards to get a whole lot more guys in the club. An angel was killed in a bar in Lemon Grove (San Diego) in 1982. Then the violence got worse and leaders on both sides were affected.

The Mongols and Angels made a deal after that. The Angels would leave the Mongols alone in parts of Southern California and the Mongols would stay out of Northern California. In 2001, the Mongols broke the deal by opening a chapter in San Jose. That eventually lead to the 2002 incident in Laughlin NV. 12.12.144.130 (talk) 21:33, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Jesse Ventura

First off, this does not belong in the lede. Second, the description of him as "Sergent in (sic? It's usually "of") Arms in an article about the entire organization is misleading. In the source video, he appeared to make a passing mention of being a chapter Sergeant of Arms.

Last, and much more importantly, we need an independent source before we can paint a former governor as being associated with what is primarily an ongoing criminal enterprise. John from Idegon (talk) 02:11, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I tried [1], [2], good luck, Mlpearc Phone (open channel) 02:15, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

About the video: Altho I agree that it is a usable YouTube video and as such cannot be eliminated offhand, I don't see either an edited interview from Joe Rogan's podcast nor one single statement from someone (even a famous someone) as enough sourcing to support the reason the club was founded. The statement identifying Ventura as Sergent at arms in the lede seems to say he was the organization's sergeant at arms when from context it is clear he was a chapter's sergeant at arms. Making an edit request. John from Idegon (talk) 03:53, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I'd like the following removed from the lede (arguments above):

Former active member and Sargent in Arms Jessie Ventura stated in an interview on the Joe Rogan Experience, that the Mongols Motorcycle Club was started because only whites were allowed in Hells Angels and the Mongols consisted of 75% Mexicans or otherwise Latino people.

References

I am not adverse to the content entirely, just the undue and partially incorrect WEIGHT being given to Ventura by its placement. I could live with a direct quote from Ventura on the subject in the history section as long as his relationship with the club was detailed properly (but even for that, we should still have better sources). John from Idegon (talk) 04:07, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

@RandyMarsh: Would you like to chime in here ? Mlpearc Phone (open channel) 19:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

How about you, Mlpearc Phone? John from Idegon (talk) 20:07, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

See the links above. Mlpearc Phone (open channel) 20:11, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Mlpearc Phone, the administrator that handles the edit request isn't going to go searching. A consensus is needed for an administrator to act. So if you could make an on point argument here, no matter what side of the question it falls on, that will help move this along. John from Idegon (talk) 23:48, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree with John from Idegon the addition has undue weight and needs a more reliable source. Mlpearc Phone (open channel) 00:45, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:26, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

@Mlpearc::@MSGJ: Lol it is not this important to me to deal with ^^ I agree I probably could have put it somewhere else besides in the lead, but all in all i just added it because i thought it was an interesting fact. Why would he lie about that? I believe him to be credible enough but I am not going to sit and spent more time on something so insignificant. As long as the reasoning isn't as simpleminded as "Youtube is not a reliable source" then it doesn't really bother me. FYI if i was to quote him directly I would have to write "75% latino-mexican" which is just plain wrong

PS: I am amazed on how much effort you guys are putting into removing the sentence instead of relocating or rephrasing so it would suit your criteria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RandyMarsh (talk • contribs) 23:20, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

@Mlpearc: You should never get admin rights by the way, You handled this entire situation wrong.

Former Members

I've never edited or done anything in Wikipedia so I'm not sure how to do this but I heard the following and thought that someone should probably add this:

Jesse Ventura, former Governor of Minnesota, claims to have been a former member and Sargent of Arms of the Mongols MC, on a Joe Rogan Experience Podcast #858. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.95.1.11 (talk) 15:46, 23 October 2016 (UTC)