Talk:Mer (community)

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Classification

See also: Caste system in India

Naming

I think that the article should be renamed to Mer as this is the standard format for tribes. TSAray (talk) 15:47, 19 May 2020 (UTC)TSAray

Surnames and families

The Mer lineages:

Surname - Sub-surname

Keshwala - Antrolia, Erda Sisodia - Godhania, Khastriya, Ranavaya, Modhavadia, Kuchadia, Haddiya, Rajsakha - Khunti, Karavadra, Gorania Sundavadra, Bokhiriya, Selor, Selan, Jethwa Pashtriya - Butad, Revdaria Odedra - Visana Jadeja - Kadcha, Tarkhala, Ratia, Kadegia Solanki - Timba, Divrania, Sida, Bhogesra, Juneja, Waghela Parmar - Mahiyaria, Balega, Mundera, Pata, Gorsera Vadher - Sarma, Sutreja, Sindhal, Dasa Vada - Bapodra, Agath, Muliasiya Chavda - Bhatti, Bhutiya, Bhadia Chauhan - Gareja Vadhia - Vadar, Bajigiya Pathiar - Tapalia Vagh - Vagh, Bhalegia, Goregia Bhatti Chudasama Waghela Vikmaher (talk) 14:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Article template

I suggest editors use the above template to add sourced content to the article.ThanksJonathansammy (talk) 17:18, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Tribe or caste

Do you describe the Mer Community as a caste or a tribe? 2011 Census of India has the community under other backward classes but nowhere does it include the community under the list of tribes.[1]In light of this, I propose the name should be changed to Mer (caste).Thoughts? Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 19:49, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jonathansammy: I think you are right. I have written 'tribe' since it seems to be the best translation for Jati, however I think Jati would be the better alternative in this case. The problem with caste in my opinion is that it is very broad and categorises Jatis into Varnas. On the other hand other Jati pages like Barot use the word caste so I am not completely sure. TSAray (talk) 15:35, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@TSAray:, thanks for excellent article. How Randal and Saranyu goddesses are related? I have unlinked them but would like to know. -Nizil (talk) 07:03, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I found the explanation. Relinked.-Nizil (talk) 07:09, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@Nizil Shah: Thank you for taking a look! Please let me know if you have any suggestions or questions.

Modern sources

page 92 these are caste akin to jat Gurjar etc. The Kshatriya claim seems to be WP:PufferyHeba Aisha (talk) 09:20, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

@Heba Aisha: I read the relevant section of the book that you have mentioned here. Mers are a jati that not only called themselves kshatriya but were considered as such by the other jatis who lived with them - this is something Harshad Trivedi has alluded to in his books (I implore you to read from page 39 onwards Trivedi 1961). As such I am reverting back to the original text. Please let me know if you have any concerns.TSAray (talk) 14:13, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Status of Mahers in the Caste System

According to these sources, Mahers are considered to be Dalits/untouchables. Please discuss with sources whether the claim that they are Kshatriyas is just WP:Puffery or Sanskritization. Chariotrider555 (talk) 23:16, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

@Chariotrider555: I have looked into the sources you have provided. I think you may have confused the Maharashtra based Mahar tribe which is considered to be a dalit community, with the Saurashtra based Mer (sometimes spelled Maher) community. Despite the apparent similarity in the name there is no historical connection between the two or at least this is not reflected in any academic research or in practice in the present. The reference to "Maher" in includes a reference to Phule who was involved the Mahar community, similarly the snippet I could find for also did not have the specific context of the Mers of Saurashtra (I have been unable to find any information about online.) Please read through this source (incl. chapter 2) and the others already provided in the article to see where the claim of kshatriya comes from. This isn't a case of Puffery, which is defined as "the puffing of a subject or the addition of praise-filled adjectives and claims" because the label of kshatriya here simply designates an aspect of the historical understanding of this tribe rather than any kind of false praise or exaggeration. Similarly, Sankritization seems to imply the adoption of various cultural practises including teetotalism and the prohibition of widow remarriage - neither has been the case for the Mer tribe. TSAray (talk) 14:33, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification! Chariotrider555 (talk) 18:27, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Revert to last pre-vandalism revision.

I am requesting a revert back to the last update before the persistent vandalism, that is from the current edition to the the following revision - [at 14:25, 21 March 2022‎]. Please let me know if there are any objections to this. TSAray (talk) 17:19, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Edit requests are not to continue edit wars. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:40, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: How does creating consensus work in this case as it is semi-protected. Can I make edits and wait until they are accepted or challenged? Or does one have to suggest everything in here first? TSAray (talk) 21:21, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

While there is protection you'll need to discuss edits here, and explain why they would be an improvement. Keep in mind that many people reviewing them may not be well versed in the topic area. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:23, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying.

One of the main additions I would like to request is the following to the History section. Although a few British-era sources have been referenced the content or claims of these are not controversial but rather relate to economic systems, otherwise, they have been substantiated with an additional source. Briefly, what is given is the mention of Mers in an inscription, information about how one of the Mer lineages came to be, the place in society - occupation (farming, warefare); priveleges bestowed by the local rulers; interaction with the state; economic background.

{{An inscription from 1328 describes the construction of a stepwell by Kuntaraja on the behest of Mehar ruled Thepak who was a tributatary of the Chudasama Dynasty. The Sīsodiyā branch of Mers was formed when the Sisodia Hati Rajputs came from Mewar in Rajasthan to Saurashtra as mercenary warriors and settled at Malia Hatina (Malia of the Hatis) and intermarried with the local Ahirs and Mers.

Mers were the dominant agricultural jati in the Jethwa-ruled kingdom around Barda. Mers did not pay rent on their land, only paying a hearth tax and if they cultivated, a plough tax in addition to sukhḍi (quit rent) on villages assigned to them. They would coronate the Jethwa ruler by placing a tilak upon his head. Resultantly, Mers along with Kathis and Rajputs were considered to be 'Darbars'. Historically, highland Mers, also known as Bhōmiyā (landed) held more political power than lowland Mers with the latter being restricted from buying land from Bhōmiyās between 1884 and 1947.

The kin of those slain in action were paid 100 rupees (£10) by the Rana during the late 1800s.}}

TSAray (talk) 22:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:14, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Varna

Their Varna in Hinduism is kshatriya please add Varna of Mer/Maher caste. Varoon Punia (talk) 19:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)