Talk:Matts Kunding

Orphan article message

Please help this orphan article by adding links to it in related articles and lists. Once it has an incoming link from at least one article or list, the orphan tag can be removed (disambiguation pages, redirects and draft articles do not count). Three or more incoming links are ideal. The Find link tool may help, but not in all cases.

JoeNMLC (talk) 12:48, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

PROD - withdrawn

Greetings @Guliolopez, and thank you for your work updating this article with references and content. I must say that I enjoyed reading the Edit summary additions that explain the difficulty of finding sources, etc.; so for now the article can be kept. Cheers! JoeNMLC (talk) 15:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi JoeNMLC and thanks for your note. In all honesty, and per the related EDSUMM, while I don't think procedural deletion is the correct approach (as I don't think it's fully "cut and dried"), it could well be that the subject fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC.

I say this as, in the limited coverage that DOES exist, the authors each acknowledge a lack of coverage - and offer some skepticism of the basic facts. (Per Cooney (2023) "Matts Kunding, a player on whom so little information survives that there are ongoing doubts as to whether he was simply invented. But certain dusty record books in Turin record him as [..] lining out Torino in 1909 and then moving to Juventus a year later". Or Cooney (2022) "a player on whom so little information survives that there are ongoing doubts as to whether he was simply invented". Or Ó'Maicín (2020) "Matts Kunding, who to this day remains curiously enigmatic, lined out for Torino"). In honesty, it seems possible that the only (original) sources available are scant (hyperlocal) records held by the football clubs themselves. And that EVERYTHING ELSE has possibly "grown" out of those few/scant records.

While a player called Kunding possibly did exist, I'm personally unsure as to the whys and hows of his nationality. I say this because, based on my own search of Irish civil and church records, I can find zero evidence that anyone called Kunding has ever been born, baptised, held property, married, lived, died or was buried in Ireland. Not a single person. Whether male, female or otherwise. Not according to the census or any other records. Anywhere. Ever. Not in the 18th, 19th or 20th century. Nothing. Ever. Even in Great Britain, all I can find is a single "Kunding" family living in Middlesex at the time of the 1891 census. Just three people. Within a century or more.

While it could very well be that Kunding had an Irish granny (with a different maiden name), and hence was Irish in the eligibility/genealogy sense (rather than geographic sense), absent other sources, the whole "story" here also just as easily have evolved from a single typo in a single club record at Torino in 1909.

Anyway, while I'm also content to leave the article for now, I certainly wouldn't query the opening of an AfD. And, as it stands, am not sure I'd be minded to advocate for a "keep".... Guliolopez (talk) 16:38, 30 December 2023 (UTC)