Talk:Madge Kendal

Comments

New International Encyclopedia does not mention the name Shafto. Superslum 01:29, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

The Dictionary of National Biography, the definitive British biographical work, does. -- Necrothesp 14:03, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Erroneous information regarding Dame Madge Kendal

As brought to my attention by @Necrothesp, Madge Kendal was certainly named DBE in 1926, but not GBE the following year (1927). I scoured the London Gazette records and found no evidence of the purported GBE in 1927. This error may have originated with Kendal's biography at the Oxford DNB. I contacted the biographer, Dr Foulkes, today by email and explained the circumstances. Quis separabit? 17:17, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Nothing in The Times either about a GBE. I doubt if the ODNB article will be corrected. I have pointed out several small errors in various of its articles over the years and none have yet been corrected. Tim riley talk 17:06, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

I saw several reference to GBE but wondered why I couldn't locate the Gazette entry. Fenlandier (talk) 10:18, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Surname

There was an exchange in November 2019 on editors' talk pages about the subject's correct full name, specifically whether it included the name "Brunton". From that exchange:

I see no inclusion of the "Brunton" detail? "Grimston", I suppose is okay as part of her husband's name, but what of "Brunton" ? DS (talk) 20:50, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

I can't think where those two American books got the "Brunton" from. It isn't in the ODNB, Times obit, the DNB archive, Kendal's autobiography, Pemberton's biography, Morley's book, Who's Who, Who's Who in the Theatre or the London Gazette, in some or all of which one would expect to see it if it were correct. And it wouldn't appear to make sense: if she was born, as the main sources say, Margaret Shafto Robertson and married a man whose real name was William Hunter Grimston, where could the Brunton come in? Like her mythical GBE (see the article talk page) I think the absence of any "Brunton" from the principal sources should make us chary. Tim riley talk 22:05, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

This name crept into some American sources, but it seems to have been a mistake. As Tim says, her autobiography, Pemberton or Morley would have mentioned it if it were true. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:01, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Granted, although this should probably be noted somewhere (commented out?) in case anyone else, like me, finds one of the American sources. "<!--one contemporary American source says her name included 'Brunton', but this does not appear to have been the case-->" ? DS (talk) 15:02, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Very good idea. Will do. Many thanks. Tim riley talk 17:16, 17 November 2019 (UTC) (And subsequently done.) Tim riley talk 17:43, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps there was some confusion between this British actress and Anna Ross (later Anna Ross Brunton)? Fenlandier (talk) 10:37, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps, but that'd be OR. DS (talk) 17:23, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

The kendall children

In some articles they refer to the alleged 22 children. Other articles refer to the 12 surviving children. Kendal in her autobiography Dame Madge Kendal (1933) on page 11 referring to her father, states "I do remember, however, his telling me that according to the Scottish legend, I, being the nineteenth child (of the same parents) who lived to be a woman, would be a mascot and bring luck to everyone for whom I wished it." She does not give a date or her age, however it would appear that she was a child and that at that time 19 of the Robertson children were still alive. Fenlandier (talk) 21:06, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Of course it should have said Robertson children of which she is supposed to be the 22nd. Fenlandier (talk) 21:07, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Her recollection of the number is not a definitive source for this information. Even if her father said that (and she may have misremembered or even made up the story), we need an independent source for this information. Where did you get the number 22? -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:50, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

It keeps cropping up unfortunately, in her own 1933 book and in Treading the Boards (2016) Neil R Wright. Society for Lincolnshire History & Archaology.This book repeats the GBE 1927 on page 254 (ref Donaldson, Frances, The Actor Managers, London (1970), p28) and the 22 children on page 261 (no reference). Fenlandier (talk) 17:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Now added a ref to Wright, p. 261. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Daughter's divorce

Isn't the divorcee daughter Margaret Catherine Grimston (nicknamed Daisy) who has her marriage to Captain Charles E Bancroft annulled? Fenlandier (talk) 22:45, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Citation please? -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

The issues of the marriage and divorce and references including newspapers are on the www.oldwhitelodge.com/bancroft.htm Dorothy didn't need to divorce her husband, he died five years after the marriage, I certainly haven't found a divorce. Margaret's divorce for her husband's alleged impotence (he appears to have had kids by a later wife) was high profile and is alluded to by Madge. ODNB does not always appear to be reliable with regard to the Kendals. The divorce was - 'Heard in camera'. South Wales Daily News.Bancroft v Bancroft. 21 August 1896. Page 4. Fenlandier (talk) 10:26, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand, and can't imagine, how a sprig of rosemary sent by an old friend should be mentioned in an encyclopedia article. Can you explain that? -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:00, 26 July 2020 (UTC)