Talk:MKS Cracovia

Stadium

Cracovia Stadium is named Józef Pilsudski Stadium not Pope JP2 Stadium.

Early history

"Cracovia’s absence from the League unfortunately lasted only one season. After beating Smigly Wilno, AKS Chorzow and Brygada Czestochowa, the team returned. And the return was so successful that in their first season back Cracovia won the League, becoming the Champion for the fourth time, what was considered as an disgrace for all polish people. Cracovia is still considered as the club of the lowlifes, scoundrels and poor homeless people. It's the very worst thing that ever happened to Krakow. "We're very sorry for our existence" as the Cracovia fans say."wtf? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.79.25.92 (talk) 22:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Hooliganism?

Wasn't this club and another Krakow football club focused on in one episode of Ross Kemp on Gangs? __meco (talk) 15:41, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

File:Kibice Cracovii.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Kibice Cracovii.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations What should I do? Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Kibice Cracovii.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 15:39, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Jewish Club and Jude Gang

I have been reading into the rivalry between Cracovia and Wisła, and could use some clarification on a couple points.

All sources agree that early in the rivalry, one of Cracovia's best players (Ludwik Gintel) was Jewish. Some sources additionally claim that Cracovia was founded by Jews. None dispute this additional claim, but I could not find a reliable source for this information, and it might be completely false.

As well, everyone seems to agree that the "Jude Gang" ultras are mostly non-Jewish, working-class Catholics using Jewish imagery to provoke other teams' ultras (mostly Wisła). However, there are additional sources which claim that they are generally nationalists and antisemites, due to their connections to Anty-Wisła (who frequently show Nazi-related imagery). Other sources claim the club is generally seen as a fairly non-antisemitic one, particularly compared to Wisła. On the other hand, some have claimed that Wisła ultras aren't even sincerely antisemitic, and are purely trying to provoke Cracovia supporters. It would be a stretch to call either club's ultras anti-racist or anti-fascist on par with Sankt Pauli or Celtic, but someone should definitely clear this up.DLMacLeod (talk) 21:32, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 26 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~Styyx^Talk? 23:07, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

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KS Cracovia (football) → MKS Cracovia – Should have been MKS Cracovia, as it is the clubs official name → Ministry of Justice link. Thanks! Perantoww1 (talk) 13:42, 26 March 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. Turnagra (talk) 19:25, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 21:19, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom and sources such as Soccerway. GiantSnowman 21:20, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
• Objection, because these letters [KS to MKS] change often, and Cracovia is also called MKS Cracovia into hockey. I propose to change to "Cracovia (football)". Soorma221 (talk) 11:34, 30 March 2022 (UTC) Struck as blocked as a sockpuppet of nominator
• Support As it's the club's name. Per WP:TWODABS, a hatnote will solve the DAB issue with the ice hockey team. Cheers, Number 57 21:59, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. After several weeks, there is an absence of concrete consensus to move.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:47, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

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MKS Cracovia → Cracovia (football) – MKS Cracovia is the legal entity that owns the pro ice hockey + football clubs Abcmaxx (talk) 14:11, 15 October 2022 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). Dr. Vogel (talk) 19:40, 16 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 21:49, 26 October 2022 (UTC) — Relisting.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:57, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

• I don't think this is uncontroversial. There was an RM about this in March. And I've had a look at the sources cited and several of them use the MKS bit. Dr. Vogel (talk) 17:31, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

  This is definitely not uncontroversial as per WP:PCM, given there has been previous discussion. -Kj cheetham (talk) 10:33, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

• Comment The above discussion failed to mention that several redirects from MKS Cracovia actually relate to the ice hockey section. There are two organisations: KS Cracovia, which is basketball, handball and the youth academies, and MKS Cracovia, which is the ice hockey and the football first team. Both Cracovia (ice hockey) and this football team are called MKS Cracovia, so either we move to MKS Cracovia (football), or just revert to the WP:COMMONNAME, which is Cracovia (football). The same has been done for example for CWKS Resovia and Stal Rzeszów. We also have Rangers F.C. and not the The Rangers Football Club Ltd (the legal name) and all these nonsensical moves have created an almighty mess with the categories. Abcmaxx (talk) 00:09, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
  • I would also add that the proposer of the previous move is an account that was blocked for sockpuppetry, unsure why this was relisted. A oppose with a valid point was struck out for the same sockpuppet weirdly enough opposing their own nomination? Either way the previous proposal should have been struck out regardless, as the sockpuppetry was related specifically to RM's of Polish football related articles. Abcmaxx (talk) 00:18, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 18:15, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - the 'MKS' is not the 'legal entity', it is an abbreviation of the club full name, as is standard (hence why we have Liverpool F.C. and not 'Liverpool Football Club' etc. GiantSnowman 18:19, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Categorically incorrect. MKS Cracovia is the owner and limited company, the club is called Cracovia. Liverpool FC isn't a multi-sports club nor Polish so absolutely irrelevant. "KS Cracovia" used to be one club with many sections including football. As football and ice hockey became bigger logistical and financial challenges the sports club sections split into legally separate entities. They retained the license agreement allowing it to use the crest, colours and Cracovia name but couldn't call themselves KS Cracovia as that was already taken. So they added an "M" for that reason. The WP:COMMONNAME is Cracovia, MKS Cracovia SSA is the legal owner of the football and ice hockey teams. This move has just messed up a whole load of redirect and categories too. Abcmaxx (talk) 19:23, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 8 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 21:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

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MKS Cracovia → Cracovia (football)

• 1. MKS Cracovia is the owner and limited company, the club is called Cracovia.
• 2. Several redirects from MKS Cracovia actually relate to the ice hockey section.
• 3. There are two organisations: KS Cracovia, which is basketball, handball and the youth academies, and MKS Cracovia, which is the ice hockey and the football first team.
• 4. Both Cracovia (ice hockey) and this football team are called MKS Cracovia.
• 5. The proposer of the move is an account that was blocked for sockpuppetry.
• 6. "KS Cracovia" used to be one club with many sections including football. As football and ice hockey became bigger logistical and financial challenges the sports club sections split into legally separate entities. They retained the license agreement allowing it to use the crest, colours and Cracovia name but couldn't call themselves KS Cracovia as that was already taken. So they added an "M" for that reason.
• 7. The WP:COMMONNAME is Cracovia, MKS Cracovia SSA is the legal owner of the football and ice hockey teams. Abcmaxx (talk) 20:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 08:36, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose malformed request, TLDR, no sources presented, and per previous discussion outcome. GiantSnowman 08:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
  • you ignored all the points in the previous discussion. Tidied up the proposal. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:38, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
    • Abcmaxx you're ignoring the actual previous proposal, and focusing only on the one before it. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:14, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

      the previous proposal being a link to the Ministry of Justice which lists corporate entities? Then subsequent oppose in the 2nd nomination was based on a misconception. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose nothing has changed since #Requested move 16 October 2022, a RM which Abcmaxx also bludgeoned to try and get their way (as they are doing here too). Having read all the content in all 3 of the RMs, the current name seems to be correct, and no sourcing has actually been given to the contrary. I do not require a response from Abcmaxx on this. If they wish to challenge the move from last year based on The proposer of the move is an account that was blocked for sockpuppetry., then WP:Move review is the correct process, rather than yet another RM just because they didn't like the outcome of the previous 2 RMs. Abcmax, you also shouldn't be changing the content of a proposal after people vote on it, as that confuses the history. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:14, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

• In particular, most of the 7 points are trying to claim a WP:COMMONNAME, but providing a total of 0 sources for it. Points 2 and 4 (redirects are wrong because there's also an ice hockey team) isn't a valid reason, those redirects should just be fixed to point to the ice hockey team. And point 5 is irrelevant, as there was still a consensus made by good faith editors notwithstanding that the original proposer was a sock. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

  Not true at all. Where is the evidence for MKS being part of the commonname? Abcmaxx (talk) 09:40, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Current title is more natural disambiguation Number 57 20:02, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
• Is this some collective insanity? The main website is called cracovia.pl, the clubs crest is KS Cracovia. On Wikipedia the ice hockey team is Cracovia (ice hockey) even though that is also owned by MKS and the handball team is Cracovia (handball). The league website calls them Cracovia. Ekstraklasa.org Where is the club called MKS?? Abcmaxx (talk) 06:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• WP:NPA. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:52, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.