Talk:Legend of the Gold of Babylon

Director credited name

Hi,

Some sources (like [1], [2] and [3]) credits the director of Lupin III: The Legend of the Gold of Babylon as Kiyoshi Suzuki.

We're now sure that this anime was actually directed by Seijun Suzuki (as stated on this article, and from his own words on this interview : [4]).

What's still to be clarified is whether Suzuki used his usual artist first name (Seijun) or the Kiyoshi pseudonym.

We would really want to put the record straight on Seijun Suzuki's articles, and we're presently discussing about this on the Suzuki's articles French talk page and on the Japanese talk page. The only way we could close the question is to see the credited name on an official The Legend media (a poster, the DVD cover etc.), but neither of us have such a material offhand.

Could someone help us please ? The question is : on the DVD cover (or so) do you see "鈴木清順" (that's "Suzuki Seijun") or "鈴木清" (that's "Suzuki Kiyoshi") (if you have trouble displaying Japanese kanjis, here is a small screenshot : [5]) ?

Thanks in advance for your help. Benjamin.pineau 11:44, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

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Anime News Network

Does not seem to be a reliable source for reception. It's just a random user on the site. TheKingsTable (talk) 01:52, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

That is not a random user. "The Mike Toole Show" is a recurring piece on ANN, he is a writer for the site not a user. Xfansd (talk) 02:05, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

The issue is that it would be like using the VGC from videogamecritic.com, yeah he is the writer of the site but he has no track record or credentials to be enough to use him as a be all source of reception. TheKingsTable (talk) 02:27, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I hadn't heard of VGC until now, but looking it seems that it is a site run by one guy? ANN is a news site (safe to say the number one visited for anime news) with editorial review, making it a reliable source for Wikipedia and completely different than VGC. Xfansd (talk) 03:37, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

ANN, providing it's not a encyclopaedia or forum page is a perfectly reliable source. In this case, Mike Toole himself has contributed to Otaku USA so is a perfectly reliable source for anime.Dandy Sephy (talk) 04:54, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Just to expand on this Mike Toole is also involved with the Discotek releases of the series and is co-commentating on the forthcoming Hemmingway Papers re-release. Dandy Sephy (talk) 22:58, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Just to add something to this. His comment isn't relevant at all. He basically watched 2 Lupin movie (not even the series!) to say his "critic". I don't think it's very objective nor useful for the article. I think it'd be better to delete this.

If you remove it your edit will be undone as vandalism. Mike Toole is an established anime critic and historian and recognised ANN contributor who regularly produces historical overviews of series both well known as well as comparatively minor and niche works, for established and reliable sources. He has produced at least one of those on the series as a whole, and it doesn't matter if he hadn't as that doesn't negate his ability to hold a view on an individual movie. There is absolutely no doubt about the validity of him as a source. This is a non issue.SephyTheThird (talk) 22:48, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

That's exactly why I first put a comment here. I won't remove something like this without first asking on Talk, I know it'd be vandalism. I still deeply feel that's an issue. It's not because he's an established anime critic that what he say is always good. He didn't watch the series like I said, only two movie which are far from the "Lupin TV spirit". Hence the fact it's only his opinion, not a critic. One thing is kinda truth though, the release outside Japan wasn't appreciated by viewer, because they were accustomed of the Lupin in Caliostro, whereas this movie is closer to Monkey Punch manga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.82.173.245 (talk) 09:43, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

You'll find that any critic is only giving his opinion so trying to mark him as somehow different to other critics makes no sense. It's odd that you are challenging the inclusion of comments by someone who is an established commentator on anime and manga published by a reliable source based on a personal objection to what he says. You also seem to be misinterpreting his comments as he offers two different opinions and if anything this goes to show how opinions can change and develop based on how one approaches a piece of media or from improved understanding. As for the 'appreciation" outside Japan of the film, I don't think this is based purely from a bias towards the film. It's just not as good as the other titles that were available, something that extends to most of the TV specials as well. Ultimately this whole discussion is rather silly. Toole's comments and inclusion as a source is perfectly valid, as are his views. Rather than criticise his inclusion, feel free to find additional commentary for reliable sources. SephyTheThird (talk) 10:22, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

What's odd? It's not because your "John Smith" that whatever you say is true, anyway. I didn't misinterpreting it at all, he cleary said he "hate" it (fair enough), he changed his mind not because he watched Lupin TV series (I don't know if he ever did, I'm talking about what we have here) but because he watched "Suzuki's other work". And that's totally different, because Suzuki is well know for his surreal setting (he was actually blacklisted because of this). Ultimately this is an article about Lupin, not about Suzuki works. About the appreciation outside Japan, as I said the viewer only knew about at this time the 1st two films, the TV series wasn't licensed yet in NA. I don't feel like it's a stupid discussion, because we're here to improve the article. Whether it's valid or not remain a question, I feel like this quote is the actual problem. It doesn't add anything expect just a point of view without any real argumentation. For the last phrase you said, I don't know how to take it. I'll just say that it's not because I don't égive" something, that it should mean I can't say anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.82.173.245 (talk) 12:15, 3 August 2016 (UTC)