Talk:Los Angeles Forum: April 26, 1969

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Thanks for the article! I know you are still expanding it but it is looking good!.

Bruxton (talk) 18:19, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

AllMusic ratings

Hello Richard3120: Where does the idea that "the reviewer doesn't give the rating, the AllMusic editorial team do" come from? —Ojorojo (talk) 15:10, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ojorojo... it looks like you are right. I could have sworn that we have had the discussion about AllMusic ratings before on WP:ALBUMS, and other editors pointed out that the ratings came from a team rather than the reviewer. Maybe that's changed, maybe I imagined it, but looking at the FAQs now, it certainly implies that the reviewer gives the rating, so I will revert my edit. Like other editors, I have major doubts about the AllMusic ratings as a whole, seeing as they are relative only to the artist's own body of work and not to other artists or albums, but that's a debate for elsewhere. Richard3120 (talk) 18:20, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

@Richard3120: A response to a missing rating on one of its "Report problems" page about includes:

We received the review without the rating this morning, I contacted the author around noon, he added the rating into the database after I contacted him, we should receive the updated information overnight and it should publish out tomorrow. (last entry)

Its FAQ page rating entry also mentions "an editor may have given" (singular), so at least some ratings are added by the reviewer/editor. Maybe we shouldn't include AllMusic ratings at all, but that is for another day/place. Thanks for reverting. BTW, the Progarchy issue has come up again if you're interested.[1][2]

—Ojorojo (talk) 18:45, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Incorrect personnel

Billy Cox played bass at Maui, not Noel Redding. Mickraus (talk) 00:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

@Mickraus: I don't see where the personnel is incorrectly listed. The "Personnel" sections include:

Los Angeles Forum: April 26, 1969

• Jimi Hendrix – guitar, vocals
• Mitch Mitchell – drums
• Noel Redding – bass, backing vocals

Live in Maui

• Jimi Hendrix – guitars, music and lyrics
• Mitch Mitchell – drums (original live and overdubs)
• Billy Cox – bass guitar

This info is taken from the album liner notes and is consistent with various Hendrix bios.

—Ojorojo (talk) 14:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

I was referring to "The album is the first full live release by the trio with Hendrix, Noel Redding, and Mitch Mitchell since 2013's Miami Pop Festival." It seems to be saying that it's the same trio as at Maui, which as you know, is not true. Mickraus (talk) 22:24, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

@Mickraus: I don't see how one could infer that the sentence is "saying that it's the same trio as at Maui". The sentence is only stating the fact that LA Forum (2022) is the first full live release with the Hendrix/Redding/Mitchell lineup since Miami Pop (2013). Live in Maui with Hendrix/Cox/Mitchell was released in 2020 and is not mentioned in this article. The live albums within the time frame include:

• Miami Pop Festival (2013) – Hendrix/Redding/Mitchell
• Freedom: Atlanta Pop Festival (2015) – Hendrix/Cox/Mitchell (no Redding)
• Machine Gun: The Fillmore East First Show (2016) – Hendrix/Cox/Miles (no Redding)
• Songs for Groovy Children: The Fillmore East Concerts (2019) – Hendrix/Cox/Miles (no Redding)
• Live in Maui (2020) – Hendrix/Cox/Mitchell (no Redding)
• LA Forum (2022) – Hendrix/Redding/Mitchell

So, there are no other full live releases with Redding since 2013's Miami Pop until LA Forum. This is the only thing the sentence is indicating and nothing implies that the trio with Cox on Live Maui is the same as the trio with Redding on LA Forum.

A separate issue is Experience Hendrix's (the current managers of Hendrix's catalogue) inconsistent use of "Jimi Hendrix Experience" to describe the different trios (see Talk:Jimi Hendrix/Archive 9#Re-branding). For example, two live albums recorded a week apart with the Hendrix/Cox/Mitchell lineup were released in 2005 with different designations: Blue Wild Angel: Live at the Isle of Wight lists the artist as "Jimi Hendrix", while Live at the Isle of Fehmarn lists "Jimi Hendrix Experience". But that is for a separate discussion and really has no bearing here.

—Ojorojo (talk) 14:46, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

The sentence

"The album is the first full live release by the trio with Hendrix, Noel Redding, and Mitch Mitchell since 2013's Miami Pop Festival."

is actually saying it's the first release by Hendrix, Redding and Mitchell since Maui. But I think I know what it's trying to say. It could be worded better IMO.

Out of interest, the contract Jimi signed for his final tour stipulated the Jimi Hendrix Experience as the resource, so Hendrix/Cox/Mitchell was the group as far as that was concerned. Why the Hendrix Estate is inconsistent is anyone's guess. Mickraus (talk) 22:27, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Tkbrett: As an interested editor, do you have any comments about the wording "The album is the first full live release by the trio with Hendrix, Noel Redding, and Mitch Mitchell since 2013's Miami Pop Festival"? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:04, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Ojorojo: I think the sentence is expressing that this 2022 live release is the first to feature the Hendrix-Redding-Mitchell trio since the 2013 Miami Pop release. I'm not sure how one would think it was saying anything about the Maui release, since it's not even mentioned outside of the infobox.

One thing I will add though is that ever since I first read WP:PLUSING, I've tried to avoid using with entirely, as I don't completely understand WP:PLUSING. How about this? The album is the first full live release since 2013's Miami Pop Festival to feature Hendrix, Noel Redding and Mitch Mitchell as a trio. If Mickraus does not think this is an acceptable rewording, the editor should offer an alternative. Tkbrett (✉) 15:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

@Tkbrett: Your suggested wording looks fine, but perhaps Mickraus will make their own to address their concerns. It would also be helpful to have a link to a reliable source regarding the contract language for the Cry of Love Tour. I researched the name issue for the article GA and didn't find any mention of a contract stipulation or language. BTW, the practice of using "Jimi Hendrix" for releases without the original Experience began in 1971, long before the Estate took over in 1995. Alan Douglas also followed the practice for releases during his 1975–1995 tenure. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:26, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

I've made a mistake. My apologies. There is nothing wrong with wording. On the other matter, I will look at the source for the claim the contract for the final tour was for TJHE and post on here. Mickraus (talk) 22:17, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

The Jimi Hendrix Experience Line-ups

Regarding —Ojorojo's request for information regarding the Jimi Hendrix Experience line-ups. My resource for the statement is an email from Steve Pesant in 1998 when he was editor of the Experience Hendrix official magazine. In it, he states each of the four line-ups which include these two:

  The Jimi Hendrix Experience                            
  Jimi Hendrix (vocals, guitar), John ‘Mitch’ Mitchell (drums), and Noel Redding (bass)
  5 Oct 1966 — 29 Jun 1969

  ... 

  The Jimi Hendrix Experience
  Jimi Hendrix (guitar, vocals), Mitch Mitchell (drums), Billy Cox (bass)
  23 Mar 1970 — 18 Sep 1970

and he comments: "Note that there are two Jimi Hendrix Experience line-ups. The last line-up with that name can be confirmed by legally binding contracts, for example, The Isle of Fehmarn concert cites “The Jimi Hendrix Experience” as the contracted resource for the gig."

I appreciate this is not citeable in a Wikipedia article, but I wanted to provide the reason I made the assertion. Mickraus (talk) 21:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this. The Dagger release of Live at the Isle of Fehmarn uses "Jimi Hendrix Experience", so maybe there is some basis for the names Experience Hendrix uses. But without a citable RS, there is nothing we can really do except just follow EH's designations without explanation. In one post-Gypsys interview, Jimi felt that the Experience was "a ghost now—it's dead—like back pages in a diary", but Jeffery and his management team were probably happy to sign contracts with the Experience name, so long as they made money. And they probably had their own reason$ for not using it for the earlier posthumous LPs and movies. On a personal note, some of the later releases would have been better as Dagger releases. Promoting too many less-than-stellar recordings detracts from those that really are. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:41, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Star Spangled Banner

Francis Scott Key only wrote the words to the Star Spangled Banner. The music was from a British drinking song. Ironically, all one has to do is look it up on Wikipedia: "The poem was set to the tune of a popular British song written by John Stafford Smith for the Anacreontic Society, a men's social club in London. 'To Anacreon in Heaven' (or 'The Anacreontic Song'), with various lyrics, was already popular in the United States. This setting, renamed "The Star-Spangled Banner", soon became a well-known U.S. patriotic song. With a range of 19 semitones, it is known for being very difficult to sing. Although the poem has four stanzas, only the first is commonly sung today." 2600:1700:10B0:2EF0:ECDB:2DA4:C3DE:31D5 (talk) 13:52, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

True, but, for the track listing details, the songwriter credits from the album liner notes are used, which are found on page 22:

"Star Spangled Banner" by Francis Scott Key, Arranged by Jimi Hendrix

Since the song is linked, interested readers may see all the details about its composition in that article.

—Ojorojo (talk) 15:15, 18 January 2023 (UTC)