Talk:Lordship of Hummel

Name

This name has multiple issues. First, lordship is imprecise and needs to be clarified from generic English to the correct historical variant. Second, I think Hummel is a German name, and Polish/Czech Homole would be better. I wonder if it was one of the tiny Duchies of Silesia, or even a smaller entity? For the record, pl wiki has an article on the Homole Castle (pl:Zamek Homole), and refers to this entity as a "państewko", an imprecise and unofficial term for "little state". German Herrschaft is linked to English authority, hardly helpful. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 20:49, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

As for the lordship issue, which variant do you recommend? As for the name itself, I think you are right that the current name should be used, especially considering Czech history of this place. - Darwinek (talk) 21:22, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Some further research points me to Herrschaft (territory). This would suggest, in fact, using the exact de wiki title (Herrschaft Hummel), or perhaps the Fief Hummel or Fiel Homole, per the two other articles on en wiki that seem to refer to a similar level of adminsitrative division: Fief of Purmerend, Purmerland and Ilpendam and Free and high fief of Zuid-Polsbroek. At the same time, when an article on the castle is created, it should be under Homole Castle. Do you think it is reasonable? Perhaps we should advertise this discussion on pl, czech and de wikiprojects, or do a RM to attract more suggestions? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 21:57, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

If we are going to stick to the original name of the entity, we should probably rename this article to Herrschaft Hummel. Anyways it was a small entity and I think either name wouldn't be controversial. As for the castle, I agree it should use the current name, i.e. Homole. - Darwinek (talk) 09:41, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Herrschaft (territory)Xx236 (talk) 09:37, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No Consensus to move to Fief of Hummel, there may be better names but the alternatives should be explicitly proposed and discussed before a move is made. Mike Cline (talk) 14:05, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

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Lordship of Hummel → Fief of Hummel – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:46, 31 October 2011 (UTC) Per the discussion above, and I have no strong preference for that name (some alternatives have been proposed above that are just as good). The only thing that is certain is that the current name is the worst of all possible worlds :) _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 19:49, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

• Herrschaft in this context means the possessions of a Herr. The English for that can be lordship, barony, or manor; barony is probably least misleading. Fief (a domain held in fee) may be technically incorrect; in any case, it emphasizes what the article almost completely omits: who Hummel was held from, and by what right. The sentence about George of Podebrad claims that Hummel was a Burgraviate, which would also be acceptable. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:24, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
• Lordship of HomoleWhy use non - native German name Hummel? It was part of Bohemia, ruled by Czech rulers.--Yopie (talk) 12:08, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose move to Fief of Hummel, which gets no ghits at all [1]. Discussion should be in terms of WP:AT of course. None of the current references or external links cited in the article are in English. All current links to this page from other pages use this name rather than a redirect, although some are piped, generally from Hummel or similar. If a new name is to be suggested, suggest creating a redir from it and finding some pages to link through this redir, and more important, find some English references (online or otherwise) that use the proposed new name. Andrewa (talk) 07:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.