Talk:List of named passenger trains of the United Kingdom

Crab and Winkle Express

I have not seen it documented anywhere but in my youth the train operating on the Wivenhoe to Brightlingsea spur of the Colchester to Clacton-on Sea line was known as the "Crab and Winkle Express" ( the line itself was also refered to as the 'Crab and Winkle") The name reflected the main marine harvest from the Brightlingsea area but did not reflect the speed of the 'Express". I suspect these names were just local nicknames as I think it unlikely that a railway company would have deliberately chosen the name. As the people who remember this name are in the a very senior age group I thought that I should document my recollections of this train somewhere, in case anyone comes searching in the future - what better place than Wikipedia. The line was closed and the tracks removed in the early 1950s. It was steam-hauled to the end with very poor-quality carriages. Passengers used umbrellas to protect themselves from the leaky roof in many parts of the carriages.Bebofpenge (talk) 13:33, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

I should think that was a local nickname and so does not qualify for this article -- not what is meant by a "named train". The information (if a reliable source can be found for it) should instead go in a relevant local article such as Brightlingsea railway station. Unfortunately, personal recollection without a reference to a published source is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in Wikipedia. -- Alarics (talk) 15:16, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

South Wales Pullman

As well as the Blue Pullman referenced between 1960 and 1966, there was an earlier steam-hauled South Wales Pullman in the traditional brown and cream Pullman colours. I have not changed the entry because I do not have dates, but I remember travelling on it around 1958. Can anyone fill in details and correct the entry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.217.121 (talk) 08:37, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Naming of articles?

Should we name articles as Fenman or The Fenman? We have both in use at present. Personally I'd make the article part of the title. Of course the sort order would be set and there would be a redirect from the other form. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:57, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

I suppose it depends on whether secondary sources italicize the article. If they do so consistently, then per WP:THE we should probably use it. Otherwise we should omit it. By comparison, I can think of only a couple articles of named North American passenger trains which use the article, and they haven't been subjected to much rigor. Mackensen (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: Since it's steam-era, were there any headboards manufactured? If so, that should give the definitive answer. Do you know approximately when in 1949 it was launched? I have a full set of The Railway Magazine for 1949, I can check to see if there was a photo taken on the first day. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:56, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Well, as a headboard maker I keep quite a library on these. As is the case for most UK names and headboards, it uses the definite article.(Peel, pp.280-281) Only a few didn't, mostly LNER, and a rare handful (Yorkshire Pullman, East Anglian) varied over time.

The Fenman article is largely wrong anyway. It didn't terminate (named) at Kings Lynn in the '60s, because the name went in '68 and the Hunstanton line didn't close until '69. Also it returned in the '80s (and did stop at King's Lynn) with a hideous headboard (and still the article).

My point here was whether we should choose accuracy and use it, or more wikibollocks to impose a false style guide over article names, regardless of reality? Andy Dingley (talk) 23:34, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

• "More Named Trains". The Railway Magazine. Vol. 95, no. 582. July–August 1949. p. 211.

'A new train, bearing the name the "Fenman," now runs between Liverpool Street and Hunstanton.' --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:35, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

http://www.henhamhistory.org/HenhamImages/ThaxtedFlyer/ElsenhamStation/1956%2022nd%20Aug%20ELSENHAM%20The%20Fenman.jpg Andy Dingley (talk) 23:07, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Aha, there we go, definite article it is then. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Wandle Thames Express

I've removed this unsourced entry, added by an IP in January 2020.[1] It's not a name I've ever heard (and I would have expected to hear of a named London Overground service), the service is not an express by any definition and Google finds exactly 0 hits for the exact phrase that did not originate at Wikipedia. Thryduulf (talk) 19:32, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Eastern Belle, Merchant Venturer, Virgin Invader

I've restored with refs most of the ones that were deleted as unreferenced. The ones I've not restored are

• Eastern Belle. The Daily News (London) - Friday 06 October 1933 said 'Another popular facility was the 'Eastern Belle' Pullman train which visited a different East Coast resort every day of the week at a very cheap rate.' Which sounds more of a train set or group of services than a specific named service.
• Merchant Venturer to Penzance rather than The Merchant Venturer. There is a 2014 timetable here which shows The Merchant Venturer going to Penzance. Probably no need for a separate line.
• Virgin Invader. Pendolino set 390050 was named Virgin Invader. If there was ever a named service, any search for it is swamped by the Pendolino and less savoury results.

--Cavrdg (talk) 11:15, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I was under the impression that The Merchant Venturer was a Paddington-Bristol service. It is, after all, at Bristol where the Society of Merchant Venturers is based. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:02, 30 April 2023 (UTC)