Talk:List of best-selling girl groups

Arabesque

Shouldn't the German pop/disco girl group Arabesque (active 1977-1984, 2006-present) be on this list? They claim to have sold 30 million records.

https://www.arabesque-music.de/story — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:C0BB:CA01:BC4C:8A46:A64A:B8CB (talk) 22:11, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2023

Girls' Generation Necr0manceraclh3mist (talk) 00:52, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. They are already listed in the article – what are you looking to have changed? Tollens (talk) 01:10, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Little mix

Little mix’s record sale have being confirmed to over 75 million can it be updated https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/little-mix-leigh-anne-solo-single-dont-say-love-stream-1235356298/amp/ Coros26 (talk) 03:39, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 18:16, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

 Undone: someone already requested this edit and the response was that the consensus needs to be established first. See the section above. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 18:25, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Blackpink sales

Hi. I added Blackpink to the list of best-selling girl groups, having sold 6,766,044 albums and 13,786,046 singles, for a total of 20,552,090 sales, putting them above the thresholds required to enter the main table. This number has been disputed by @Solidandrewsister who assured me the numbers "won't add up", and @Kenquenito, who said that the singles do not in fact add up to 13,786,046 but rather to 7.8 million. In this reference is all the sources I used with comments for the math used for the sales, which shows that the singles add up to 13,786,046.

Now, the bulk of the single sales come from 5 download certifications by the Korea Music Content Association (KMCA), who produces the official Circle Chart (formerly Gaon Chart) to track South Korean songs and album performances. For all songs released after 2018, the KMCA certifies songs Platinum once they have reached the threshhold of 2.5 million downloads. "Ddu-Du Ddu-Du" and "Forever Young", both released in 2018, were certified Platinum on April 11, 2019 and December 12, 2019, respectively, for surpassing 2.5 million downloads each as shown in this reference. This takes us to 5 million single sales already.

Now, for songs released prior to 2018, they are not eligible to be certified. However, Gaon Chart regularly posted the Gaon Observation Board that record songs that have surpassed 2.5 million downloads and/or 100 million streams in South Korea. "Playing with Fire" and "As If It's Your Last" were the first two songs to be recognized for surpassing 2.5 million downloads. In The Gaon Observation Board posted February 26, 2019, the author lists all songs per artist that have either reached 100 million streams or 2.5 million downloads. The image contained within this page at this URL shows the songs that have surpassed either certification threshold. In this case, it shows in the first column that three songs had passed the streaming certification threshold of 100 million streams, which are the songs "Playing with Fire", "As If It's Your Last", and "Ddu-Du Ddu-Du". In the second column, it denotes all songs that have surpassed the download certification threshold of 2.5 million downloads, which are the first two songs "Playing with Fire" and "As If It's Your Last". Though they are not eligible to be officially certified as pre-2018 songs, the KMCA denotes on this board that these songs have also surpassed the threshold of 2.5 million downloads. This adds another 2.5 million single sales per song and 5 million for both to the count. Add that to our previously noted 5 million, we are now at 10 million single sales.

The Gaon Chart continued to post updates on the Gaon Observation Board for songs that newly surpassed either 2.5 million downloads or 100 million streams. On the update posted on November 28, 2019, Gaon listed "Whistle" as one of the songs that had just surpassed 2.5 million downloads in South Korea, as seen in this link. On the page, "Whistle" is specifically listed as a song that has surpassed 2.5 million downloads on the image linked in this URL. This adds anothr 2.5 million single sales, taking us to 12.5 million out of the 13,786,046 single sales reported, and much higher than the conclusion of 7.8 million by @Kenquenito.

The download certifications as well as the download thresholds for pre-2018 songs by Gaon Music Chart have been used regularly on Wikipedia and treated as reliable. Pages that use them as a source for sales include major K-pop groups such as BTS singles discography, Twice singles discography, and Red Velvet discography, as examples. I'd like to ask which part of these download sales cannot be seen as reliable, especially since when on this very page (List of best-selling girl groups), Twice on the same table also uses Gaon observation notes (as well as Oricon charts and Billboard charts) as a reference, which are the very same sources used for single sales here. Why can they be treated as reliable for one group but not another? I am willing to work together to find and replace any sources that are not reliable, so let me know if there is anything wrong, and we can make the changes here. Flabshoe1 (talk) 14:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC) Flabshoe1 (talk) 14:50, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Tagging @Nkon21 and @Paper9oll for their input as other experienced users generally involved in the same editing area. Flabshoe1 (talk) 15:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Flabshoe1 calculation is correct to me unless I failed my maths which I don't so. Did I get lost in the calculator mess, I don't think so also as I punched the figures into excel. In addition, I can see that the sourcing is similar on other South Korean groups listed here hence unless there is some unknown reasons which I don't see any indications of such, I don't see why the sourcing is problematic. — 🎉🎆 Paper9oll 🎆🎉 (🔔 • 📝) 16:16, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes your calculations are correct and very right, in any other case if they are going with that logic to remove BP then Twice should be removed as well, cause their sales and sourcing were put in the same way as you did for BP's, so they have no excuse. Lightlylove (talk) 21:13, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello, could you provide alternative sources for the claimed 2.5 million sales of "Playing with Fire" and "As If It's Your Last"? I refrained from including them because the information originated from the opinion section of Circle Chart. The website's news tab is categorized into six sections: main news, opinion (where you sourced your information), albums, Kpop now, performances, and issues.

The absence of certifications for these songs on Circle Chart, along with the fact that the figures are derived from the opinion column rather than factual data, may make the sales numbers appear unrealistic, not just to me but also to some readers. I hope you understand my point of view. Thanks. Solidandrewsister (talk) 06:46, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

The absence of certifications for these songs on Circle Chart is solely due to the fact that pre-2018 songs do not get certified, but Circle Chart (or formerly called Gaon Chart) releases official data for when pre-2018 songs pass the streaming or download certification thresholds of 100 million streams or 2.5 million downloads respectively. I'd like to point out that this very page uses Gaon-published data for sales of pre-2018 songs (and therefore uncertified) for Twice's sales, so this has never posed a problem before.

Now, I'd like to point out that the articles sourced being under the "Opinion" section does not mean that these numbers are "opinions" and not factual data. The opinion section on the website refers to news articles that consist of analysis by Circle Chart reporters and the conclusion that any article in this section cannot be treated as factual data is a complete misunderstanding and not supported by any actual text on the website. The Gaon's Observation Notes, which reports pre-2018 songs that have passed the download certification threshold, is clearly established as being based on actual numbers.

Once again, I'd like to point out that on this very page, the reference for Twice's sales includes three different uses of the Gaon's Observation Notes as sources, all of which are under the "opinion" tab. I've included these three references at the end of this sentence. As you can see on all three sources, all of them fall under the "opinion" tab. These three sources show the six songs "Like Ooh-Ahh", "Cheer Up", "TT", "Knock Knock", "Likey", and "Heart Shaker" (all of which are pre-2018 and therefore uncertified) as having surpassed 2.5 million downloads. Therefore, 15 million of 42 million of Twice's reported sales in this table come from the very same source that you claim is unreliable.

It has long been established by consensus and common practice that these Gaon's Observation Notes, despite being under the "opinion" tab, are reliable as well as accepted for use on this page and on the discography pages of every other K-pop group, so I fail to see how this source can be seen as unreliable for one group specifically. If anyone would like to chime in, please feel free @Solidandrewsister @Paper9oll @Lightlylove @Nkon21. Flabshoe1 (talk) 20:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC) Flabshoe1 (talk) 20:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

No objections to the latest comment made by Flabshoe1. As I have stated earlier, I don't see why the sourcing is problematic to begin with. I also asked for any prior discussion(s) that have set an exception for example Twice's sourcing here of which, I don't see any replies on such. Hence to me, I looks a case of mistake revert otherwise is simply WP:OWN issue. In conclusion, I can see that there is already a clear consensus here that there are no issues for the sourcing nor the counting/figures hence I don't see the need to have WP:RFC. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

In that case, since there is a consensus of there being no issue with the sourcing and numbers, I believe it's acceptable to go ahead and add the sales that were reverted. It looks like this may be a case of WP:OWN by the reverters. Flabshoe1 (talk) 21:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

References

The Go-Go's

The page for lead singer Belinda Carlisle states that the Go-Go's are the best selling all female rock band of all time. And they didn't make this list? 2600:1700:D2E0:7E70:ADEB:BF5E:4C2:4520 (talk) 00:31, 12 January 2024 (UTC)