Talk:List of best-selling girl groups/Archive 1

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ALL SAINTS

How didn't SWV make up their and other groups like SWV, pussycat dolls and Xscape didn't? SWV sold more then EN Vogue but they are there? Pussycat dolls first album sold 8 million alone..

If you have a ref add them. No need to vandalise the article Eight88 (talk) 04:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

HANG ON A MINUTE!

It is a well known fact that Destiny's Child are the biggest selling girl group of all time! NOT the Spice Girls. Im not just saying this because Im a fan cuz I love most of the girl groups in this list, However check out BPI, MTV, World Music Awards as of June/July 2008 Destiny's Child have sold 60 Million worldwide, the Spice Girls are a close 2nd with somewhere in the region of 58/59 Million worldwide. Wneedham02 (talk) 21:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

according to who? any sources? please, add'em to the article before complain about it. (destiny's child were popular in the u.s., but worlwide, the spice girls were most important) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.224.213.244 (talk) 01:31, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Destiny's Child

Destiny's child were awarded as the biggest selling female group of all time at the World music award there is a clip to show this as evidence on youtube, spice girls were NEVER awarded this show all you spice girl fans stop will the changing of this to make them look good, i am a worker at the music awards across the world and our company has spoken lets keep destiny's child at number 1 until another group comes to sell more than 100 million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.210.130 (talk) 16:44, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Destiny's Child sold 50 million including solos. That is not a group sale. They have only sold about 36 million. They should be listed behind TLC.

They have sold 40 million CD's according to the 2nd link. TLC's says 36 million and is consistant with the TLC discography. Eight88 (talk) 02:55, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

For those who believe Destinys Child has sold 100million. I refer you to this news item. Music World, their record company has reported selling 100 million total - inclusive of Beyonce AND other artists. [1]. So please stop amending 9unless you can find a better source that stipulates the 100m figure Eight88 (talk) 03:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Errm! Destiny's Child have sold 60 Million albums worldwide and are the biggest selling girl group... Not the Spice girls they have sold 55 Million! check out most music websites. Wneedham02 (talk) 23:26, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

spice girls

How Can Destiny's Child have Sold More than the Spice GIrls??? DC Top Selling Album did 12m Worldwide. Spice Girls Top SELLING album "Spice" Sold over 23m worldwide evern "Spice world2 Sold 20m when you add all DC Record sales up it Comes to 38,368,000, which is massive but if you add all the Spice Girls Sales it comes to 71,423,000 copies. Spice is the biggest selling Album by a girl group ever FULL STOP!!! they also hold the biggest selling single by a Girl Group with over 6m sales, Wannabe. Even after 7years away as a foursome and 10 years away as a fivesome they managed to have the best selling world tour 2007/08. These Girls Made the way for DC. The SG had a massive place in the history of the music. They were a brand worth over £1,000,000,000 (one Billion Pound) The Spice Girls are known in places where DC never had a Hit.S Dc I would say are the 2nd best selling or 3rd as TLC have certificated sales of 37,950.00. so it close between them two, but the spice Girls are way ahead. They Achived that with 3 albums 11 singles and 1 GH album. Made more money than any other girl group as well in the year of 1998 the spice girls made over $100m. So I think DC fans Need to stop making things up. PS I'm not a big fan of Either. I'm Just sick of people arguing over it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.43.216 (talk) 13:22, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Can someone fix this list?

For the list of best selling girl groups, albums by solo artists cannot count, following the RIAA certification & Billboard rules, however this is only US, I'm not certain about worldwide but still Destiny's Child only sold 46 million albums as a group, I'm not really sure where the 60 million came from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Havokrain (talk • contribs) 05:44, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Dixie Chicks?

I would not consider them a girl group, especially if one is to look at Wikipedia's own definition of "girl group". The members of Dixie Chicks play their own instruments. - eo (talk) 19:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Just because they play instruments doesn't mean they aren't a "girl group". Besides, if you put them in a separate category, who else would be in there with them? I personally can't think of anyone. Neglecting adding them, to me, feels like we're pretending they don't exist. The Dixie Chicks are, under this definition provided by Wiki, a "girl group", as they do harmonize. They just bring a little something extra along with them (ie, their instrumental and songwriting talents).

No idea who responded (no signature there), but he DCs aren't a girl group. Girl groups have a specific aesthetic to them: usually 3-4-5 women put together by a producer to sing/harmonize together. Not putting the DCs here hardly means they "don't exist". They're certainly much more of a traditional band whose members just happen to be female. There's a difference. It's the same concept as a "boy band"... would you consider any band made up of all males to be a "boy band"? (i.e. Backstreet Boys are a "boy band", Pearl Jam is not) - eo (talk) 21:30, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Supremes

OMG!!! Stop putting them as the highest, they've not sold close to 50 million!!

I reckon they've sold about 20 million!!!!!!!!!!! Stop ruining the page!! Stop being biost people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.97.33.140 (talk) 18:19, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Wilson Phillips

What about Wilson Phillips? They were a trio that sold 10 million copies of their first album alone! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.24.75.56 (talk) 11:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd consider them a girl group. If you can dig up reliable sources that place them within these lists, then by all means add them in! - eo (talk) 12:04, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

CRAZYSEXYCOOL SALES AND CERTIFICATION

I have a few questions that need to answer. The question is about the sales and certification of the album, CrazySexyCool by TLC in US alone. Here are:

1. Is it true that this album is the biggest selling album by a girl group in the US when it only SHIPPED (not sold) 11 million? (Under the article CrazySexyCool)

2. How did the CrazySexyCool being certified 11x Platinum when it only sold 7,200,000 in US? Spice Girls' Spice sold 7,400,000 but it only certified 7x Platinum. (Under the article: List of best-selling girl groups, and Spice (album))

3. How did CrazySexyCool being certified diamond when it only sold 7,200,000? (It can be if it really sold 11 million. But it only shipped). (Under the article: TLC (band) and RIAA]]).

4. If the album really sold 11 million in US and being certified diamond, why did the album, The Sign by Ace Of Base being the biggest-selling album of 1994 in US? When in fact, "The Sign" was certified 10x Platinum. (Under the article: Best-selling albums by year in the United States, Talk:List of best-selling albums in the United States)

5. Others claimed that CrazySexyCool sold 10 million and being certified diamond by RIAA and 11x Platinum in US. What's the difference between certified by US and RIAA if RIAA is in US? (Under article: CrazySexyCool, Recording Industry Association of America, and List of best-selling albums (USA))

6. Did the RIAA certified it diamond because they based the sales of the album not only in the US but worldwide(Under the article: CrazySexyCool)

7. If CrazySexyCool was certified 11x Platinum in US and certified diamond by RIAA, does it means that Spice being certified 12x or 13x Platinum in US instead of 7x Platinum? And also does it means that Spice was certified diamond by RIAA like SexyCrazyCool? (7,200,000- CrazySexyCool; 7,400,000- Spice) (Under the article: Spice (album), CrazySexyCool, and Recording Industry Association of America)

8. What is the real certification of CrazySexyCool? On other article, you can read that RIAA certified it 11x Platinum, but on other article, RIAA certified it diamond. (Under the article: List of best-selling albums (USA), CrazySexyCool, Recording Industry Association of America, Lisa Lopes, TLC (band), List of best-selling girl groups)

Please give me your best answer and also give your reliable source. Because when I click the references of CrazySexyCool article, it comes from some forums and blogs (which only came from some die hard fans that want to make TLC look better). And under the article "List of best-selling girl groups", should we need to temporarily remove all the certifications there to avoid confusions? Look. Some of the TLC related articles looks like a big confusions to readers. So, if anyone don't care about this, I will clean this up by myself.--Pinakapoging bata (talk) 08:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

• All comes from this Billboard article:

"Much of TLC's career came in the early to mid-'90s, when record clubs (like Columbia House) were a popular way for consumers to purchase albums. However, SoundScan does not track record club sales but the RIAA does.

... Hence why the RIAA's tally for TLC is so much greater than SoundScan's.": [2] LAUGH90 (talk) 03:43, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

TLC'S CRAZYSEXYCOOL SOLD 11millions in US.Soundscan didn't occupies all sales —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.43.209.175 (talk) 19:36, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Sales columns need to be removed

Most of them are not sourced, and most of them are based on certifications, which are usually awarded for shipments, not sales. To constantly update these figures with small upticks in number-of-copies every few days is ridiculous. Certification levels should be a good enough indicator of which groups have sold the most. - eo (talk) 22:55, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Well I don't think that the sales columns should be removed. Maybe you could put somewhere "Sales based on certifications". I don't know, but I know the british sales are accurate. AtomicMarcusKitten (talk) 20:00, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

i think a sales column should stay, because in the majority of countries the certifications are based on shipments and the label have to apply for the certification, so they're not accurate. if the sales are from 100% reliable sources then they should stay. but the "genre" column should definitely go, it's completely irrelevant. Mister sparky (talk) 23:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the genra column should be removed, but i didn't understand what you meant about the sales column, you went from saying "i think a sales column should stay, because in the majority of countries the certifications are based on shipments and the label have to apply for the certification", and then "so they're not accurate" xD But i think it should stay, otherwise there's no point in having "best selling albums" reallyAtomicMarcusKitten (talk) 12:01, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

that's exactly what i said... certifications do not accurately reflect actual sales, so sales should stay but every single one should have a 100% reliable source next to it, so remove all unsourced figures. Mister sparky (talk) 16:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

But you're not gonna find sources for sales ffigures in countries like germany, switzerland, anywhere tbh, that's why ive added "based on certifications" AtomicMarcusKitten (talk) 18:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

The Bangles

How about The Bangles, an all-girl band that was popular in the early 1980s? I believe research could turn up the number of recordings they sold and make them eligible for this article. Truthanado (talk) 22:04, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I would not consider the Bangles a girl group. Same goes for the Go-Go's, the Runaways, etc. Different aesthetic, those are bands with female members. - eo (talk) 23:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

destinys child

they have sold 40 million a recent MTV article with Matthew Knowles states sales. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.77.206 (talk) 15:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Destiny's Child or Spice Girls

Destiny's Child

Andrew Sisters ... 90 million .. as a group — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozrin (talk • contribs) 06:58, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Okay, on my research, Destinys Child only sold 46 million records as a group and 60 million if you combine the girls solo sales. [3]This is what the article said:

The group has accumulated record sales of over 46 million albums and singles (over 60 million records sold when combining the solo sales of Knowles, Rowland and Williams alongside the group's success).

Spice Girls

The Spice Girls have sold more than 60 million records worldwide aws a group, I repeat, "AS A GROUP" [4][5] with only four albums and twelve singles, the demand for their first two albums was unprecedented, making them the most successful British band sincethe Beatles,[6][7]

They had sold 60 million records worldwide as a group without their combine solo sales

Best-selling girl group of all time

So far, we can say that:

The "SPICE GIRLS" are the best-selling girl group of all time

Let's face the truth. If you are disagree, please give me your source or reference.

Andrew Sisters

The Andrews Sisters became the best-selling female vocal group in the history of popular music, setting records that remain unsurpassed to this day:

  between 75-100 million records sold from a little over 600 recorded tunes
  113 charted Billboard hits, 46 reaching Top 10 status (more than Elvis Presley or The Beatles)
  17 Hollywood films (more than any other singing group in motion picture history)
  record-breaking theater and cabaret runs all across America and Europe;
  countless appearances on radio shows from 1935 to 1960 (including their own)
  guest spots on every major television show of the 1950s and 1960s, including those hosted by Ed Sullivan, Milton Berle, Perry Como, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Jr., 
    Johnny Carson, Joey Bishop, Art Linkletter, and Jimmy Dean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Andrews_Sisters#Setting_records — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozrin (talk • contribs) 06:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

The Andrew Sisters sold over 75 million records and recorded in excess of 600 songs. This page seems to be misleading in a lot of respects. You have created a "records page" that seems to only focus on musicians you enjoy. This is a skewed and bias article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mozrin (talk • contribs) 06:53, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Andrews Sisters

What about the Andrews Sisters? According to this http://www.cmgww.com/music/andrews/about/achievements.htmPage they have sold over 90 million records which would put them in the list, if not at #1? is there some other criteria being used that disqualifies them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wayne Stewart (talk • contribs) 06:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

The criteria here is flawed, being "include whoever you personally consider to be a girl group" and synthesis away to produce figures. Your opinion is as good as anyone else's, so have at it. http://www.cmgww.com/music/andrews/about/achievements.html says they have sold 90 million, and so should be top of this meaningless list. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:05, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Flaws with this article

A starter list of all the flaws in this article. These problems are inevitable, being that the article consists of a loose criteria, synthesis of multiple sources, and generally compiled from opinion.

• The Bangles are excluded as they are not a "girl group", they are a band with female members. So why doesn't the same apply to The Veronicas?
• The Veronicas are a duo, does this make them a group?
• Who decided that only album sales count? This inevitably disadvantages older artists who sold almost entirely on singles. It will also inevitably disadvantage current & future bands who sell mainly on single downloads.
• Where are positions 5, 6 & 7 so ranked when they are cited with identical sales?
• The sales for CrazySexyCool in the US are said to be 11.2 million, but the cite says 7.2. It appears the grounds for this figure is coming from the 11 × Platinum RIAA award, but in that case why have the contrary cite? And where is the evidence for the additional 0.2 million?
• Very Necessary by Salt-n-Pepa has an unsourced claim to sales of 4,400,000, yet has 5 x Platinum award. It cannot be both. Similarly for FanMail by TLC, 4,700,000 sales, yet 6 x Platinum award.
• Where have the sales figures for the entire UK Album chart come from?

--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:45, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

The writing's on the wall by Destiny's Child has sold 15 million copies worldwide

Survivor has sold globally more than 12 million copies ww

Please change--109.52.91.3 (talk) 13:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 3 September 2012

Destiny's Child did not outsell TLC. TLC sold 65+ million records worldwide, while Destiny's Child sold less than 40 million. The chart is terribly wrong and should read 1. Spice Girls 2. TLC 3.Destiny's Child etc. Example TLC's article reads: Billboard magazine ranked TLC as one of the greatest musical trios.[5] Between 1992 and 2003, the band accumulated ten top ten singles, four number one singles, four multi-platinum albums, and four Grammy Awards. At the end of 1999, TLC was ranked as the seventh most successful act of the 1990s by Billboard. In 2008, the group was inducted into the All Time Hot 100 Artist Hall of Fame by the same magazine, at 56th place. That year it was also listed as the #25 R&B/hip-hop artist of the preceding 25 years.[6] TLC has sold more than 65 million records worldwide[7], and are ranked as the second best selling female group,[8] and the best selling female R&B group of all time. While Destiny's Childs article reads: During their career, the group sold over 40 million albums worldwide,[1][2] becoming one of the best-selling recording artists in the United States.[3] Billboard magazine ranks the group as one of the greatest musical trios of all time,[4] the ninth most successful artist/band of the 2000s,[5] and placed the group 68th in its All-Time Hot 100 Artists list in 2008.[6] They are also on the list of best-selling girl groups behind Spice Girls. According to Billboard, Destiny’s Child sold over 50 million records worlwide. Mb2diesel (talk) 02:00, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 05:40, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Please add AKB48 to the list, they have sold over 15 million records. 120.140.148.196 (talk) 10:03, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 November 2012

AKB48 don't really belong on this list as per the stated premise. They haven't sold anywhere near 20 million ALBUMS, only ~2.8m from what I can find. Same thing with Morning Musume with only ~5.2m. Speed should stay but be moved down to ~8.5m. Now, these are Japan only sales but there's no way in hell anyone actually believes any of these groups sold that many more records outside of Japan. Morning may be able to make the 6m cutoff but good luck finding any sources for non-Japanese sales. I'm not really sure why you're only counting albums in the first place, other than album sales being easier to accurately reference than track sales but it is what it is and the list needs cohesion not confusion. 65.95.204.147 (talk) 17:25, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Actually, most of the list is dubious under the "album only" rule. So many of these sources are clearly combining album and track sales. The entire thing needs a severe audit. 65.95.204.147 (talk) 16:29, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

t.A.T.u are one of the best selling girl groups?

Russian duo and band t.A.T.u. should be listed on the Best-Selling list, because the group have exceeded over 13 million records worldwide, since mid 2000's. Though I am unable to find out how much sales they have ever since the mid-2000's, an archive from The Sun stated that "The girls racked up more than 13million sales worldwide in their heyday."

• Archive link to report
• Actual post (currently broken down)

The group's studio album 200 KM/H In the Wrong Lane exceed over six million records worldwide link here and shipped over one million copies in Europe, because they were awarded the IFPI Platinum Europe Awards in 2002. Their Russian counterpart album 200 Po Vstrechnoy sold over 2 million copies worldwide (including one million sales in Europe) link here.

They should be added?!?!?!? GirlsAlouud (talk · contribs} 03:30, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Cut the list down to top 10?

The list is so disputed the page's been locked up!

Not only that, I find the list AND the numbers to be inaccurate, or at least untrustworthy.

As for the list, I'm sure there have been girl groups that never made it internationally but were huge sales in their own country so no one thinks to add them to this list. If we cut down the list to a top 10, we have less worry since then we deal with umpteen millions not just a few millions.

As for the numbers, these sales figures aren't exactly accurate, plus there's the problem of albums only vs all physical music sales. What do we do about AKB48 that sells not as many albums but huge number of singles by adding in special offers with their singles?

And some numbers are just plain wrong actually. Take the last entry Kara. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_discography#Albums this page, which I imagine would be more important than this page to any Kara fan, says Kara's album sales are less than 2 million. Even if I add up all the compilation & single sales as well, still only 3.4 million, not 4.5 as is written currently.

Cut the list down, and actually check each entry. A small accurate list is better than a large and wrong one.

174.1.230.57 (talk) 12:27, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Why Girl's generation and Kara?

I see no citations at all. Why they are added to the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.190.162.157 (talk) 14:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree. The SNSD album number does add upto around 4.5 million, but KARA's number seems suspicious as none of their Korean EP has sold above 100K, and their best selling Korean studio album has in total sold about 300K. It doesn't add upto 4.5 million even after including their Japanese sales. Penpaperpencil (Talk) 07:56, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Albums vs Records

Why are theses supposed to be in "albums" when CLEARLY the sources claim only RECORDS. This is inaccurate and needs fixing. Plus, the best selling artists list and best selling boy bands are in records not albums. Why is this in albums anyway?--Nicolescherzingerfan (talk) 19:04, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Albums vs Records

Why are these supposed to be in "albums" when CLEARLY the sources claim only RECORDS. This is inaccurate and needs fixing. Plus, the best selling artists list and best selling boy bands are in records not albums. Why is this in "albums" anyway? when really these are records listings in the sources.--Nicolescherzingerfan (talk) 19:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Recording Industry Association of Japan?

How come there's no list yet on the best selling girl group album in Japan? After all, Japan has one of the biggest music industries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Linsauke (talk • contribs) 04:05, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

This list isn't right AT ALL

The Spice girls are the best selling female group followed by TLC, then Destiny's Child.

"Spice" and "CrazySexyCool" are the best selling albums by a female group. As a total TLC has sold 65 million, not 55.

If you would look under "Best Selling Girl Group Albums", TLC are up there twice with "CrazySexyCool(22 million)" and "Fanmail(11 million)", does that not equal to 33? Destiny's Child is up there twice as well with "The Writings On The Wall(12 million)" and "Survivor(10 million)" that alone put's TLC ahead of Destiny's Child. does it not? I'll wait. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MakoFiasco (talk • contribs) 14:08, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Destiny's Child and TLC..

I'm not understanding the past few edits, the source given for Destiny's child provides that DC has sold more than 60 million, not 55 million. And then the source for TLC doesn't even provide any information related to record sales. Shouldn't this be reverted back? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.90.197.102 (talk) 03:39, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Girls' Generation is from South Korea, not Germany

Vandalism case, it seems. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.177.136 (talk) 00:36, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Girls' Generation nationality edited

==Best-selling girl groups==

Girl group	Country	Sold (albums and singles)	Genre	Studio albums	Members	Years active
1. Spice Girls	United Kingdom	80 million	Pop	3	5 → 4 → 5	1994–2000, 2007–08, 2012 (10 years)
2. TLC	United States	65 million	R&B, hip hop	4	3 → 2	1991–2003, 2008–present (18 years)
3. Destiny's Child	United States	55 million	R&B	4	4 → 3	1995–2006, 2013 (16 years)
4. Bananarama	United Kingdom	40 million	Pop	10	3 → 2	1982–present (30 years)
5. AKB48	Japan	28 million	J-Pop	4	Rotational	2006–present (7 years)
6. Speed	Japan	20 million	Pop	4	4	1996–2001, 2003, 2008–present (12 years)
7. The Supremes	United States	20 million	R&B	29	4 → 3	1959–1977 (19 years)
8. En Vogue	United States	20 million	R&B	5	4 → 3 → 4 → 3	1989–present (24 years)
9. Morning Musume	Japan	16 million	Pop	13	Rotational	1997–present (16 years)
10. SWV	United States	15 million	R&B	4	3	1990–1998, 2005–present (17 years)
11. Pussycat Dolls	United States	15 million	Pop, R&B	2	6 → 5	2003–2010 (7 years)
12. Salt-N-Pepa	United States	12 million	hip hop	5	3	1985–2002, 2007–present (22 years)
13. Eternal	United Kingdom	10 million	Pop, R&B	7	3	1992–2000, 2014-present
14. Sugababes	United Kingdom	10 million	Pop, R&B	7	3	1998–2010, 2014-present
15. All Saints	United Kingdom	10 million	Pop, R&B	3	4	1994–2001, 2006–2007 (10 years)
16. Atomic Kitten	United Kingdom	10 million	Pop	3	3	1997–2004 (on hiatus), 2008, 2012–present (13 years)
16. Wilson Phillips	United States	10 million	Pop	5	3	1989-1993, 2004–present
17. Girls Aloud	United Kingdom	8 million	Pop	5	5	2002–2009 (on hiatus), 2012-2013 (10 years)
18. Rouge	Brazil	6 million	Pop	4	5 → 4	2002–2005; 2013 (5 years)
19. SKE48	Japan	6 million	J-Pop	1	Rotational	2008–present (5 years)
20. Girls' Generation	South Korea	5.8 million	Pop	6	9	2007-present (6 years)

Tung4605041 (talk) 17:02, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Presenting what you want the table to look like after the edits makes it difficult to see what you are asking to have changed. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 19:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)