Talk:List of assassinated and executed heads of state and government

Seperated by country

Personally I think seperating these assassinations of leaders by countries would be beneficial for readers so they would have a better time reading it along with not being overwhelmed with tons of information. If they want to see a leader, they have to find it by their death. Of course, it has to be chronological, but it can still be presented by country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79lives (talk • contribs) 17:49, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Remove statistics

Statics hasn't been updated to include 2020s, I think the representation of the data is poor too (shouldn't be two charts, they dont produce any insight.)

Sources unnecessary, remove tag?

Thus article has had the

tag since August 2017, but I'm inclined to think it should be removed. In every case there's a link to the appropriate WP article where full references are given. Is it really necessary to cite the sources all over again? I think not.

Unless, of course, a specific entry is explicitly challenged ; but this hasn't happened yet.Ttocserp (talk) 12:55, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Reducing the article

I have reduced this article because it was clearly intended to be a list of all killed leaders in history. But that would make the list incredibly huge and it would probably never be complete. Also the statistics at the end of the article cover only the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries. 'Doomer1557' ( talk) 20:10, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

This is a dynamic list and like many other dynamic lists it may never be completed. Please do not make a massive edit and then state it in the talk page as if you own this page. Khronicle I (talk) 14:46, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

@Khronicle I:I mean, this list will NEVER be able to include all killed leaders in history, given all the wars and coups. To be honest, at the moment this list looks too long and ugly. 'Doomer1557' ( talk) 16:40, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

This list, ideally, should indeed include every single assassinated or executed heads of state or government in history, and it would be immensely useful if it did. Too long? Tough — history is long. Too ugly? Tough — history can be ugly. Get over it.Ttocserp 00:19, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

sorting by date?

I'm not too sure if it's supposed to be like that, but it seems like when sorting by date it uses the actual *day*, so trying to see the list from most recent to old doesn't work? Ultramarine-Blue (talk) 03:04, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Benazir Bhutto

Why is Benazir Bhutto on the list? She wasn't prime minister at the time? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.25.156 (talk) 15:14, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

• No, she wasn't. Vanjagenije (talk) 23:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Ghadafi

Shouldn't Ghadafi be on the list?

Overthrown and killed in a rebellion, not an assassination. Gotitbro (talk) 01:04, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Inapplicable additions

The basic tenet of an assassination is a "surprise attack". Half of the persons added were not assassinated but were killed in wars/battles/engagements and proper executions after capture. Please understand that these are not assassinations and shouldn't be listed here. I have tried to remove some but there are just too many of them, if someone can further clean this up it would be great. Gotitbro (talk) 01:03, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Charles I of England

I can't seem to find the executed king on this list. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 04:37, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

He used to be in the list but was removed.

By the time he was executed in 1649 Charles had long ceased to exercise the functions of a head of state.Ttocserp 10:58, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Yet so did Louis XVI and he is still included in the list. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 11:00, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

He should be removed too. The article defines head of state.Ttocserp 11:31, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

He was still head of state, up until his death. GoodDay (talk) 02:33, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Charles I was King of England, Scotland & Ireland, right up to his execution. GoodDay (talk) 02:24, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

No:

• Charles' supporters contended that he was king.
• The successful revolutionaries contended that he wasn't — was only Charles Stuart, traitor.

Clearly, this is a POV question. It comes up every time there is a sucessful revolution. But for the purposes of the article, the only question is, how does it define incumbent head of state.Ttocserp 08:51, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

You're free to go over to the Charles I article & dispute when his reign ended. GoodDay (talk) 16:40, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

WP:WINARS.

This is a common problem in international law and regime recognition. It probably demands a separate WP article. (On 4 July 1776, was George III king of the American colonies? Most people then thought so, but today nobody thinks he was. Was Gadaffi president of Iraq the day he was hanged? His supporters thought so! But all this is too complex to discusssh here.Ttocserp 17:46, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I've asked for further input. Again, you are free to argue at the Charles I of England article, that his reign ended before January 30, 1649. Since, that's what you're arguing here. GoodDay (talk) 20:23, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry you are having trouble with WP:WINARS. Please review. What the Charles I of England article says is completely immaterial. The sole question is whether, when that axe blade was heading for his neck, Charles was the incumbent head of state as that expression is defined in this article. Please review. Context of use is vital.Ttocserp 13:09, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I've already asked for the input of others. GoodDay (talk) 00:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I'd say it's WP:COMMONSENSE – readers would expect to find figures such as Charles I on this list. He was a head of state whose side lost a civil war and was subsequently executed by the other side. By all means remove the sentence "this list considers only the incumbent head of state or government" if it's causing a controversy that's standing in the way of making the list as useful as it should be. Even if the sentence is retained, it seems a bit of a technicality/narrow perspective to exclude such an obvious case – Charles I is historically famous for being an executed head of state. Jr8825 • Talk 11:37, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Jr8825 here. Furthermore, if we are going to be pedantic, Charles I was still de jure the monarch at his execution, as the monarchy was not abolished until March 1649 (after his death) (see Worden 1974, p. 172). As Watson 1982, p. 182 notes, the Parliamentarians also acknowledged Charles's position as King during the trial. Cf. Louis XVI (mentioned above), whose monarchy had been abolished well before his execution. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:06, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

It looks like there's a rough consensus for inclusion, so I've gone ahead and restored Charles I to the list. I'm no longer watching this page, so please ping if you want to raise my attention. Jr8825 • Talk 16:19, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Jr8825: I also added, that he was king of Scotland & Ireland, aswell. GoodDay (talk) 22:00, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Darius III

Shouldn't he be there too? From what article says, it looks like he was killed during the coup of his satraps, not some time after his removal.

Incumbents

This list considers only incumbent leaders, but could it be extended to former leaders as well? Since those assassinations commonly happen for political reasons as well, thus linked to their former career. PhotographyEdits (talk) 11:43, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I think former leaders should be added on the list. For example, Shinzo Abe was assassinated, although he was no longer Prime Minister of Japan. Should it be added on the list, or not? 115.84.96.96 (talk) 12:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Rajiv Gandhi & Shinzo Abe

Please add both the names, they were not in power but I can see others who were not in power in the list such as an Italian pm. .@Photnart. (talk) 01:53, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Should the list be expanded to add former leaders? .@Photnart. (talk) 01:54, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

You know what? How about no. 115.84.96.96 (talk) 02:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Saddam Hussein, left out, was executed by a tribunal from the "coalition" after the US invasion sent him into hiding and effected regime change but he still considered himself President of Iraq. The list seems influenced by political views like a lot on wikipedia I never noticed before this year related to US war related events and personalities. Emerman (talk) 18:07, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Tsar Nicholas 2 and Archduke Franz Ferdinand?

Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by a Serbian in Sarajevo and Tsar Nicholas 2 was assassinated by Bolsheviks in Ipatiev House in Yekaterinburg Alraph nicholen25 (talk) 11:07, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was never a head of state or a head of government. He was killed before he could ascend to the throne. JIP | Talk 16:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
• Nicholas II of Russia was no longer a head of state when he was executed. He had abdicated from the throne in the previous year. JIP | Talk 16:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Benito Mussolini

Benito Mussolini is not on the list. 223.204.221.182 (talk) 01:09, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Nor should he be. When killed (on 28 April 1945) he had long ceased to be the head of government. He had been dimissed as Prime Minister of Italy by King Victor Emmanuel on 25 July 1943, and arrested.Ttocserp 01:39, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Diadochi

Quite a lot of Diadochi seem to be missing between Philip II and Seleucus. Most of them were murdered and many were in control of a state. I'm thinking of Lysimachus, King of Thrace etc., who was killed by Seleucus, Peithon, Regent of Macedon, who was killed by Antigonus, Perdiccas, who was murdered by his officers etc. 2A02:A213:A942:3300:DD5F:F6A6:1899:5D12 (talk) 11:58, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Rafic Hariri

According to Rafic Hariri's page, he was no longer PM when he was killed. Should he be removed from this list? Nogoodbooks (talk) 00:44, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Modification of table proposal

Hi. The table seems to be unwieldy and long (375 rows). I propose splitting it up by continents, per WP:WIKITABLE#Size. "For very long tables, manageability and maintenance of the page may be better served by breaking information up into several smaller tables instead of one extremely long one." Cheers! --Thinker78 (talk) 23:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC) Edited Thinker78 (talk) 23:56, 2 June 2023 (UTC)|

Oppose. It's not "unwieldy" (what's so difficult to "wield"?). Why introduce a complication - you'd have to know the continent first before you could decide which of several tables to consult. Leave well alone.Ttocserp 16:30, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

"Country" column

The table needs a clarification as to whether the "Country" column is supposed to represent the country where the person ruled, or the country where they were killed. In most cases those are the same, but there is an inconsistency in the table. Charles I of England was executed in 1649 in London, but the Country column for him says "England, Scotland, Ireland" which represents the three countries where he ruled, not the one country where he was killed. Meanwhile, Cyprien Ntaryamira was the president of Burundi, but the Country column for him says "Rwanda" which represents the country where he was killed, not where he ruled. What should the column represent? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 13:38, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

It should be the country of which he was the head of state or government.Ttocserp 14:02, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Saleh Ali al-Sammad

Yes, I know that Houthi government is not recognized internationally, but he was de-facto head of state of Yemen holding sway over Sanaa and other densely populated Yemeni areas. Can al-Sammad be included in the list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorgedweller (talk • contribs) 09:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

The problem with bar chart

So the bar chart shows that three heads of state/government were assassinated during 2000s, while there are four persons listed in this section of the list above. I guess the chart should be corrected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gorgedweller (talk • contribs) 09:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I propose to remove the bar chart altogether as I don't see how it adds much valuable information. JIP | Talk 16:46, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not so sure. It appears there's a statistically significant difference between some assassination months - October is definitely one to beware.Ttocserp 19:01, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Ptolemeans, Cleopatra, Mark Anthony, Cesarion

What abut them? --95.24.65.39 (talk) 06:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Francisco Solano López

Field Marshal and President of Paraguay during the Paraguayan War, he was killed in action in Cerro Cora, 1 march 1870, moment when the war ended.

He was the legítimate Chief of State when he died. The country (Paraguay) was under a military occupation until 1876-1879. Some puppet governments were established in those days, but everyone acknowledged López as the President until he died.

I think he should be added with a [Note] explaining that it is a controversial case on its own, a very famous one though. 2803:7D80:A40D:88ED:D910:EFEF:DC4A:2C1C (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

López was neither assassinated nor executed. He was killed in battle, which is a third case. not within the scope of this list.Ttocserp 22:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC)