Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Death

Articles for deletionEdit

Some cemetery entries have been flagged for deletion:

---Another Believer _(Talk) 16:52, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Now that we have WikiProject Cemeteries, so any discussion about cemeteries can be done at its talk page maybe? Chongkian (talk) 01:33, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

"Deaths in YYYY" articles leadsEdit

Since 2013, we've had {{Year article header}} to standardize the format of articles on years, and it's worked quite well. I notice that most "Deaths in YYYY" articles, like Deaths in 2021, have the same basic needs for a lead, yet each year tends to be just copy-and-pasted from the previous, with various tweaks over time. Therefore, I'd like to see us create a {{Deaths article header}} template for similar use.

The current lead for this year is, bluntly, terrible, especially for an article with 3.647 million pageviews per month:

The following notable deaths occurred in 2021. Names are reported under the date of death, in alphabetical order as set out in WP:NAMESORT.
A typical entry reports information in the following sequence:

Name, age, country of citizenship at birth, subsequent nationality (if applicable), what subject was noted for, cause of death (if known), and reference.

The main problem is that the lead seems way more focused on giving editors instructions than on providing information for readers (the WP:NAMESORT being a particularly bad example of a WP:SELFREF). Editor instructions can go in the editnotice.

I'm interested to hear from other editors about what an improved lead could look like. We could add statistics from authorities (via parameters), like the total number of deaths that year, the leading causes of death, the average age of people who died that year, and even the number of people with Wikipedia pages who died ({{PAGESINCATEGORY:2021 deaths}} = 11,381). {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 18:33, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Comment: I would be inclined to stress that the article lead should still be fairly brief and succinct, as other editors may already have noticed that each month builds into a massively long and (for some) slow loading page, and overly bloated article leads just add to this. So I'd say by all means make it more attractive and informative instead of instructional, but don't go overboard with the whistles and bells please. Thanks. Ref ^(chew)(do) 20:56, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Absolutely. We're allowed by the MOS to go up to four paragraphs, but if we run out of things to say, we shouldn't force ourselves to be wordy. I'm trying to imagine what these lists would look like if they became FLs and to write leads to that standard. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:19, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

With respect, the likelihood of "Deaths" lists becoming "featured" is, frankly, a very very long way off. The current rating across the board is "List-class, Low-importance", and I can't see an improved article lead bumping the project up any. Ref ^(chew)(do) 12:41, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Leading causes of death would be tricky, if not doomed by inconsistent availability and conflation with comorbidities, but the simple counting stats seem OK to me (though I wouldn't call the current setup not OK, or even terrible). InedibleHulk (talk) 14:38, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Just a small small correction: Deaths_in_2021 is the only "Deaths in YYYY" article left. All previous years have been forked into "Deaths in MMMM" articles. Mill 1 (talk) 10:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Death in {state}Edit

Can we also get a decision about "Death in {State}" versus "Deaths in {State}" at Category:Death in the United States by state? - Mjquinn_id (talk) 17:52, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

In the interests of consistency, it clearly should be plural. The main category heading is singular, but the corresponding blue link under sub categories is plural, at the moment! That means both the main heading and all the individual state blue links (sub categories) need to be changed. Editrite! (talk) 22:10, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Burials by Cemetery Category Naming ConventionsEdit

Hello. I've always seen cemetery specific categories with naming convention like this, "Category:Burials in CEMETERY NAME". One example is Category:Burials at Rosehill Cemetery. I think this is the standard, right? I just noticed a category which does not comply with this convention: Category:People buried in Topeka Cemetery. Should this category be renamed to Category:Burials at Topeka Cemetery? RoundSquare (talk) 03:41, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

DeathcareEdit

Hi all, just wondering if there was a "deathcare" article around the subject in general and not just focused on the USA? Because if not, I really think there should be! Jamzze (talk) 17:03, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

I have now started a page for this general overview of deathcare - I have put an initial assessment for the page, so please do change as you see fit and leave notes on what can be improved! Jamzze (talk) 19:59, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Renaming discussion of Astroworld Festival crowd crush to Astroworld Festival disasterEdit

Hello! We're having a discussion on whether to rename Astroworld Festival crowd crush to Astroworld Festival disaster. You can participate here if you're interested. Best, Pilaz (talk) 18:00, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Lakhimpur Kheri violence RfC needs inputEdit

FYI

– Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Please see Talk:Lakhimpur Kheri violence#RfC about this incident being termed a 'mass shooting'

This is primarily a two-editor "pissing match" that has now turned into an RfC, with presently very low input, so it's turning into the same two-editor pissing match again. This needs to be settled, by uninvolved editors. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 01:13, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:List of ways people dishonor the dead#Requested move 8 December 2021Edit

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:List of ways people dishonor the dead#Requested move 8 December 2021 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 13:21, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy/archive1 Featured article reviewEdit

User:Nutez has nominated Assassination of Robert F. Kennedy for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:55, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Images on death list pagesEdit

Hi all. This past year I have worked diligently in creating the Deaths in 1995 by month articles over several months. Mill 1 has recently done excellent work copy editing these lists so that the format aligns with other death lists by month. I noticed that in doing so Mill 1 removed the many images I had added to the article, all of which were usable and on wiki commons with proper free licensing or in the public domain. In looking at the other deaths by month article I can see this was done because there are no images on any of the other deaths lists. I would imagine there was some sort of discussion about not including images at this project sometime in the past, and for this reason the images were removed. However, I think this a bad policy and that images should be included within these lists for multiple reasons. 1) Without images these articles could never pass a Featured List review. 2) Images make the page more interesting to the reader 3) The absence of images has no benefit to the encyclopedia and in my view creates inferior lists. As such, I would respectfully ask that images be used within all the death list articles. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Are there any agreed criteria for who gets a picture? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:52, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

@Martinevans123 I don't think we need to get that detailed. It was difficult enough trying to fill a page with usable images as we can't use fair use rationales for images of individuals on lists like these for copyright law reasons. In other words, we are limited to images available through a Creative Commons license or images within the public domain. That's fine, but it does limit choices on who gets coverage by virtue of what we can legally use. I was able to fill most of the pages for the months of 1995 deaths with images available through this licensing, but just barely. If we ever do get to the point where we have more images than we can use (doubtful) then we could discuss some sort of criteria. For me, if the person is notable enough to have their own wiki page and they have a image that is available on WikiCommons then we can include it. Best. 4meter4 (talk) 17:21, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

If there are many more deaths than images, then I guess there's no problem. So what about consistency with all the other similar death list articles? There's nothing special about 1995, is there? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:27, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Well obviously this would apply to all years. I just happen to be working on the year 1995. Hopefully other editors will take an interest in adding images to all the death list articles. A further thought on your first question, if we ever do reach a point where we have an excess of images we could always create an image gallery at the bottom of the page for overflow. But again, I really don't think this is going to be a problem as most biographical articles (at least ones in the last 100 years) contain either no picture or use pictures with fair use rationales. As I hinted at above, fair use rationales for images can only be used on biography pages where the image is depicting the primary subject of the article. As lists are not primarily about one subject, we are not legally able to use fair use images for copyright reasons. As such, our bank of usable images is relatively small. My hope is we add what is freely available to all the death list articles.4meter4 (talk) 17:39, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I assume the use of "fair use" images (the exact criteria for which are not always clear to me) at the main articles preclude their use in list articles. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

I think we need to focus on the subject of this discussion before we decide on who in the list gets a picture, the subject being: will images be allowed in the deaths list pages? Currently there is no consensus about using them. Editors have decided by consensus to use a simple cite, the reason being that it slows down loading time. It is true that 'older' pages (before 2006) contain less entries than 'newer' pages that were updated on a daily basis as the month progressed. However, I fear that adding images could make the older pages slow to load, also because full citation style is used regarding references in them. And there's another thing also pointed out by @Martinevans123: what about consistency with all the other similar death list articles? I have seen how much time and effort it took for @4meter4 to add images to the twelve months of 1995 and it pained me to remove them. But currently there are (27 years * 12 =) 324 deaths list pages and it is going to be a humongous task adding images to them all. 4meter4 can state "Hopefully other editors will take an interest in adding images to all the death list articles" but I predict that the sheer amount work will lead to some articles having images and others not. And adding images to pages up to a specific year (say 2000) wouldn't be enforcable btw. We spent a lot of effort in standardizing the deaths lists which were a mess just a couple of years ago so I am not against images in pages per se but I do not see how we can maintain consistency when we allow it. What say you @WWGB? Mill 1 (talk) 11:23, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

If consistency is an issue, I don't mind pitching in and working on adding images to all the articles (however help would be nice).4meter4 (talk) 14:34, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Rock Springs massacreEdit

I have nominated Rock Springs massacre for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. (t · c) buidhe 20:42, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

possible new article - murder of Paulina DembskaEdit

Can someone write an article about the Murder of Paulina Dembska? She was a Polish woman who was raped and murdered in Malta on 2 January. This appalling case has been covered by many media sources - for example

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/paulina-dembska-identified-as-sliema-murder-victim.925273 https://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2022-01-03/local-news/Lead-suspect-in-Sliema-murder-claimed-he-was-taken-over-by-the-devil-6736239504 https://www.guidememalta.com/en/fundraisers-launched-to-erect-paulina-dembska-memorial-statue-and-repatriate-her-remains https://www.corrieredimalta.com/attualita/pioggia-di-donazioni-per-supportare-il-rimpatrio-della-salma-di-paulina-dembska/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.11.98.92 (talk) 12:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Most murders and other crimes don't meet WP:NEVENT (t · c) buidhe 09:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

FAR for Torajan peopleEdit

I have nominated Torajan people for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. (t · c) buidhe 09:10, 15 January 2022 (UTC)