Talk:List of Safavid grand viziers

Viziers --> Grand Viziers

@HistoryofIran:, perhaps we should move this to "List of Safavid Grand Viziers"? I just made a brief dig, and it seems that quite a few of the most important scholars in Safavid/Middle Eastern history refer to the people in the last as "grand viziers" instead of "viziers". I believe thats due to the fact that the regular title of "vizier" (as opposed to Grand Vizier) was used as an administrative title for numerous governorships, alongside the more commonly used titles of "darugha", "beglarbeg", and hakem". (see also; Matthee, 2012 [1] and Floor, 2008,[2]) - LouisAragon (talk) 22:32, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

LouisAragon: Sure thing. Vizier is indeed used in those cases, such as Mirza Shah Husayn and Saru Taqi. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:34, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran:, anddddd its done. This is a proper step, as eventually (hopefully in the near future), as we both know, we'll have to move the "Safavid dynasty" article to "Safavid Empire" as well. - LouisAragon (talk) 00:54, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Najm-e Sani

@HistoryofIran: Dear HistoryofIran, According to "Ahsan-al Tavarikh" which is a history book written by "Hassan Beg Rumlu" during the reign of Tahmasp I, Najm-e Sani was "Vakil" of Ismail I and not his vizier. I believe his name should not be mentioned in this list. Unfortunaely, in this book it is not mentioned that after Mohammad Zakariya Kujuji and Mahmud Jan Qazvini (also written Mahmud Khan Qazvini in some sources), who occupied this post? "Tohfe-ye Sami" is a book about poets and written by Sam Mirza Safavi (the son of Ismail I). In this book about one poet who called "Shah-mir Deylami (Daylamite)" is mentioned that he is the son of "Mahmud Jan Deylami" and the brother of "Mirak Beg". Shah-mir became for a short time the vizier of Ismail I after his brother "Mirak Beg". So, I believe these two names should be added to this list. Unfortunately, nothing is mentioned about the beginning and the end of his and his brother's office. What is your opinion? Shfarshid (talk) 17:21, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

The vizier and vakil office was merged during the early Safavid period if I remember correctly, hence Najm-e Sani should be good enough. I unfortunately dunno about those sources you're talking about, I've used academic English sources. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:34, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: The next vakil of Ismail I (after Najm-e Sani) was Abd al-Baqi Yazdi. If the vizier and vakil offices were merged during this period, Abd al-Bagi's name should be added to this list. Shfarshid (talk) 09:24, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

No because the next one was Hossein Monshi Qomi. I think it's better to be on the safe side and use the English sources which are more prominent and accessible. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:47, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Hossein Monshi Qomi

@HistoryofIran: Hossein Monshi Qomi was the father of the historian, Ahmad Monshi Qomi, and as far as I read in Persian sources he was just a "Monshi" (scrivener or clerk or penman) not a vizier. Which of your sources called him a vizier? Shfarshid (talk) 10:28, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

This one was one of them at least (if I remember correctly) [3]. We should rather stick to English sources imho. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:48, 9 April 2019 (UTC)