Talk:List of Indian residential schools in Canada

When was the first residential school opened?

>>answer here:

Skookumchuck Hot Springs and Owl Creek

I'm not sure of the history of these missions, and I don't think maybe that they survived into the era of the formal residential schools. All I know is there were schools attached to the missions, in Owl Creek's case a large one such that the Lil'wat people came down from the then-main village at Pemberton Meadows to live near it, which instigated the growth of the Mt. Currie Reserve, now the main Lil'wat community. There is no trace of Owl Creek today other than the placename (on a power substation...). At Skookumchuck Hot Springs, Skatin today, I'm not sure the scale of the school, possibly local so not residential, so to speak. Both were Oblate-run and another mission was at Shalalth, although I think that was just a church, albeit with a small school, again not AFAIK "residential". And all I think were frontier-era and maybe didn't survive into the formal residential school era. I don't have cites handy, although with a certain book (Decker's book on Pemberton, see that page for the ref) a basic article on Owl Creek could be listed; what its "saintly name" was I don't know, maybe it's in that book.Skookum1 (talk) 17:33, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

All Hallows should not be on here

All Hallows Indian Residential School; Yale; opened 1884; closed 1920 (AN)

The listing is incorrect. All Hallows was a school for all girls, including uppercrust society girls from Victoria, who studied alongside native girls. This was a residential school, but only in the same sense as Sacred Heart or Vancouver College. It was a fancy private school that admitted First Nations children and treated them as equals. I'm removing the listing; its name anyway was simply "All Hallows School for Girls", no mention of "residential" or "Indian" in its name, and it has no (known) association with the abuses of the residential schools.Skookum1 (talk) 17:28, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

It's on the AFN site, so it's cited. If you want to create a page, describing conditions there as wonderful, and cite it, that's your business. Here's a link to start with. From what I see, it closed down before attendance became compulsory. I don't see why any of this means it shouldn't be listed. I'm pretty sure the language of instruction was in English, and that assimilation was still a goal for the Church running it. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 17:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Barman, Jean. "Lost Opportunity: All Hallows School for Indians and White Girls, 1884-1920," British Columbia Historical News, Vol. 22 (Spring 1989) might also be an interesting source, not that I trust Jean Barman any further than I could throw her. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 17:18, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Assimilation was not the goal of the school, but of education overall, and that included for immigrant children from white countries as well as making sure the little darlings of Victoria and New Westminster society were indoctrinated in the prevailing paradigm. The term "residential school" in Canada has clear associations of native-only specifically-indoctrinating/assimilating schools; this happened to be a school that while it did board its students did not segregate classes nor the girls themselves, and FWIU even corporal punishment was frowned on; it was a place to "cultivate" girls; I suspect the First Nations girls who went there may have been from chiefly/noble families or otherwise placed within the cross-over society of First Nations people who worked for or closely with "high society" people. I have real trepidations about lumping it in here with St. Joseph's and Alert Bay and other hellholes; without a really stern rider, or maybe a separate section for schools which admitted FN children alongside others, as this one did. I went to Mission High at the time that the St. Mary's Residence students were "integrated" into ours (only a few "integrated", mostly they still kept to themselves) and know that even unsegregated schools can still work out as segregated; this was, again so far as I know, not what went down at All Hallows. As for Barman, you know I don't like her thinking at all, she's constantly playing the blame-game and looking for the negative, while putting on a pedestal the benighted "immigrants" (i.e. non-whites, a typical p.c. distortion as everybody were immigrants, even from Canada); I'll have to look up her little paper on All Hallows; I know I read something else on it this last year, maybe in th Sun but I don't think it was her paper; I'll ask Terry Glavin, maybe he might know more about it; the current proprietors of All Hallows (now a campground/trailer park) may have a lot more to add, I'll see if they're emailable or whatever......All Hallows School for Girls definitely warrants an article, if only because it was in Onderdonk's former mansion and accompanying buildings, but also because of its important role in early BC education.....Barman's an education historian, a sociologist really, and fascinated with denominational politics...there's anotehr paper b y somebody or other out there about the inroads of the Christian landscape in the Fraser Canyon, but the author misses so many points, and makes so many judgmental errors and disproportionate pronouncements (he makes a big deal about Bishop Hills' attempts to lay out a Christian society in the Canyon, missing entirely the point that he was entirely ignored and made not a single convert....also missing is the story of the Nlaka'pamux transexual religious visionary who got all under her sway to join the Anglican effort at Lytton, rather than the Oblate one (still holds today and is part of the reason for the deep divisions in Nlaka'pamux society). The residential schools article should probably have something about situations like hers, and about the incredible devotion those converted displayed; latter-day FN politics dumps on the church; many elders, still very devout, are very wary of that but the write-ups generally avoidtalking about the Faithful as anybody but victims of cultural repression; Rose Prince is a case in point that's not such an easy judgement to pass, and stories like the Prophet of the Skeena (I'll see waht I can find) point to a pre-Contact religious excitation that the churches were lucky to walk into to fill the void.....I do like the CJ term for the Devil, though - Hyas Lejaub (lejaub from fr. le diable), or rather the imagery associated with him....a white man in a white suit and white hat....a protestant preacher of a certain kind, in other words, perhaps an image fostered by the Oblates to scare native people away from other "men of the cross", who as Protestants surely were the Devil to the Oblate way of thinking.....as you know I'm very wary of "pat" judgments of the past; there's always a deeper story....Skookum1 (talk) 18:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm happy to acknowledge that you believe these things, and that they may indeed be true, but you'd still need to reference them. I think creating an article on All Hallows would be the best "rider" you could come up with, however, simply removing it from the list doesn't make sense. Of course there was variety among schools, just like there was variety among students. Some people went through certain schools and had no exceptionally bad experiences. Supposedly, Andy Paull was happy to volunteer to attend, stayed friends with the oblates all through his life, and he was a firm activist.

Still, I don't think it makes sense to exclude this school from the history of residential schools. According to the Anglicans, "the education of Indian girls was transferred to St. George's from All Hallows School, Yale in 1916." So it's clearly connected with the history of the residential school system. Judging only by the titles, it looks like Barman changed her mind a few years after writing "lost opportunity" because in 1995, she wrote "Separate and unequal: Indian and White girls at All Hallows School, 1884-1920." In J. Barman, N. Sutherland, & J. D. Wilson (Eds.), Children, teachers, & schools: In the history of British Columbia (pp. 337-357). It looks like there might be some interesting info in "Our Tellings: Interior Salish Stories of the Nlhaʼkapmx People" (Darwin Hanna & Mamie Henry), as it contains Edna Malloway's (who attended All Hallows) "Memories of Lytton." Give that a shot too. Just like the Japanese internment article, I'm all for creating an accurate, nuanced history of residential schools (rather than a simplistic one) but simply removing this school from the list doesn't accomplish that. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 19:21, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Here's something you just said, but let me shift the emphasis if you will:

So it's clearly connected with the history of the residential school system.

There's a BIG difference. "Connected with" is not the same as "being a part of". Mission High, too, was connected to the St. Mary's Residence because of a transfer of students; all that statement says is that the non-segregated, non-prison school, in the years of its decline (and, I believe, shrinking school population), transferred its small roster of FN girls to Lytton; it doesn't mean it was a residential school in the way that phrase is used/meant; ideally "First Nations residential school" or "residential school for First Nations children" is a more correct title. Lillooet Secondary and other schools had dormitories, residences, that is, for kids from rural areas, this include the FN kids who attended it; but that doesn't make it a residential school any more than it does Lytton Secondary for absorbing the St. George's kids, or Mission the St. Mary's. And I'm sorry I can't reference this with any resources available to me here in Nova Scotia; likewise the Owl Creek and Skookumchuck and Shalalth missions. But in the case of this one, it's entirely inapprorpriate, unless all convent and other schools of any kind that are residential are included; I have doubts for the same reason that St. Anne's should be on here....a sublist of schools who had FN kids in them that weren't part of "the system" would maybe be the place to have them; the term "residential school" to me doesn't fit with a place where the tea-and-doily set sent their darlings....If All Hallows was a residential school, so was Sacred Heart.Skookum1 (talk) 20:58, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

You've ignored the body of my argument and you have no references. It's listed on the AFN website. I've re-added it. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 23:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

There are writeups about it on various historical pages about Yale - maybe the AFN (and you) should read them.Skookum1 (talk) 17:15, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I can't help it if the AFN ignores the historical record and wishes to invent its own; All Hallows was primarily a white school, with society girls from New West, Vancouver and Victoria; I think it also had Chinese students (from wealthy Chinese families). I've taken it out again; it no more belongs here than Sacred Heart or Brentwood or Vancouver College (see below).Skookum1 (talk) 17:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Its first roster, in fact, was 35 FN girls to 45 white ones:

"n 1890, All Hallows School was officially opened in Yale. It was the only school in Canada to enroll both First Nations and white girls in the same facilities. Upon opening, the school enrolled thirty-five First Nations girls and forty-five white girls ranging in age from six into the late teens. Many of the First Nations girls were recruited by local Anglican clerics. Many of the girls parents were in favour of having their daughters attend the school to "learn white ways."5 Most of the First Nations girls came from the Lytton area, with a few also coming from the Shuswap area, Salmon Arm, Lillooet and Chilliwack.

All Hallows attracted many daughters of Anglican clergymen from across British Columbia, The clergymen liked the school's religiously based instruction and "rightly thought it better to send them to a school like this, in which their duty to God and man is taught from the highest of all motives."6 A final reason for attendance at All Hallows for some of the girls, both whites and Indians, was due to lack of educational alternatives."

- The Rise and Fall of All Hallows, Gold Rush Town of Yale website

And from the same source:

"Two All Hallows oupils exemplified the high standards of education at the school nation-wide in 1907 and 1908. In 1907, one student placed first in B.C. and sixth in Canada on the McGill University entrance exams. In 1908, another student received the first gold medal awarded in Canada by the Royal Academy of Music."

Doesn't sound like it had much in common with St. Michael's at Alert Bay or St. Joseph's in Wiliiams Lake, huh? As for the AFN's citing it, a POV source is not a reliable source, no more than the Chinese Canadian National Congress was right when it claimed on its website (now retracted) that Chinese were driven off BC goldfields or that Chinatowns were formed by force/legislation etc etc etc ad lying nauseam. And as for Barman, I don't read her books any more as they're always so ethnic/gender-obsessed as to ignore the historical context of the time by creating her "new history", which is to say revisionist history.Skookum1 (talk) 17:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

And yes, that page does cite Barman, but with much less the preachy p.c. overtone that's throughout her booklets/diatribes....Skookum1 (talk) 17:41, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Page needs renaming

The title of this list should be List of Canadian Indian residential schools so as to specify the Indian Reseidential School system and to exclude private schools like Upper Canada College, St. Michael's University School, Vancouver College, Brentwood College, Shawnigan Lake School etc (and All Hallows!). Some of these indeed had Indian students with the ame purpose of cultural assimilation, although in these cases into the elites; Seminary of Christ the King at Westminster Abbey (British Columbia) in Mission likewise had First Nations students in teh same way All Hallows did; none belong in this list (and the AFN needs to give its head a shake).Skookum1 (talk) 17:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I was bold and made the change to List of Indian residential schools in Canada; see notes on change.Skookum1 (talk) 17:46, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Two Coqualeetzas?

I note there are a Presbyterian and a Methodist Coqualeetza school each....maybe on the same property? See Coqualeetza.com "about us" page and more. Not sure if "the Coqualeetza property" includes grounds of both schools....for a while back in the '70s or so "the Coqualeetza band" was also heard, though which of the many Sto:lo bands around Chilliwack this was I'm really not certain....IO also remember hearing Coqualeetza Reserve, though probably this was a reference to the grounds, and the proper name of the IR meant I'm not certain....Skookum1 (talk) 19:58, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

There's only one Coqualeetza - the confusion might come from the Presbyterian and Methodist churches amalgamating into the United Church of Canada. The mission there was established by Methodists, and several schools were built to house increasing numbers of students; it was first a day school called the Coqualeetza Home, then later was rebuilt after a fire and renamed the Coqualeetza Industrial Institute. You're very right that "Coqualeetza Reserve" is not a real reserve; there is no Indian Reserve at the site. I am planning to develop a page for the Coqualeetza residential school, using sources like Kelm's Colonizing Bodies, Carlson et al, A Sto:lo-Coast Salish Atlas, and Raibmon's article "A new understanding of things Indian: George Raley's negotiation of the residential school experience (Coqualeetza Indian Residential School, Sardis, BC)." If anyone has suggestions on information they would like to see about the Coqualeetza residential school, please let me know. Mardikbawk (talk) 22:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

References

re Peckquaylis/St. Mary's

Just to note that Peckquaylis (anglicization of Pekw'Xe:yles), is only the grounds of the former St. Mary's in Mission; the actual St. Mary's Indian Residence is/was called Toti:lhtet or close to that, and includes businesses and some government bodies, and is a recreation facility; the actual, original St. Mary's Indian Residential School was west of the current buildings, which were built in the '60s and although containing classrooms did not operate long as a school, but served as a residence for First Nations kids attending Mission Secondary School. The original school site is now part of the Fraser River Heritage Park.Skookum1 (talk) 20:14, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Thetis Island?

I knew about Thetis, of course; but tonight came across Capernwray Harbour Bible School on Thetis Island, which is right by Thetis; Thetis was Catholic-run, the North America Indian Mission, which a [Capernwray Harbour Bible School current google] shows is/was non-denominatial, operated Thetis. Anyone know anything more about it? See Talk:Capernwray_Harbour_Bible_School#residential_school_history.Skookum1 (talk) 23:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Making the List into a Table

I think All lists in Wikipedia should be turned into tables. I didn't look into the policy, but I think it would be useful to get this into table form, that is a bit more structured. It would also be nice if each table could be exported as a CSV file. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.142.249.161 (talk) 18:53, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Problem with dates in Fort Albany

The CBC wrote "St. Anne's residential school in Fort Albany ( was open from) from 1904 to 1976." http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/give-aboriginal-abuse-victims-role-in-court-case-ndp-says-1.1370098 and in the list-table there are two entries for Fort Albany. Neither of the two entries have the 1904 or 1976 dates. I am wondering which is source is correct (CBC or AFN site) and if two seperate "Fort Albany"s should be listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.243.254.224 (talk) 22:07, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

should differentiate between Oblates, Dominicans, Jesuits etc

In Western Canada, most RC-run schools were Oblate, I'm not certain about back east. It's just that I noticed on Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate (the Oblates) page that only the St Mary's Residential School is listed (we called it OMI, the abbreviations of the order, which also shows up on various priest articles, .e.g Lejeune, Durieu); and there is no link to this list or to the school system article, which in both cases there should be; but if this page makes no direct mention of the Oblates maybe not?Skookum1 (talk) 22:09, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Seems like the would be relevant for the Canadian Indian residential school system article, no? At least, total numbers and geographic spread, if not a complete list? - TheMightyQuill (talk) 11:18, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Standing buildings

Would it be possible to include a column that listed the buildings that are still standing? ggatin (talk) 17:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

That would make sense to me. Or something like "Current status" which could list, for the rest, the year it was demolished? - Themightyquill (talk) 08:52, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Marieval School Closure Date

I have attended Marieval Residential School in 1993-1995. The school was not closed at this time but was actually under the control of the Cowessess First Nation, most of the staff consisted of members of the Cowessess FN, and the school itself had become non-denominational at this time. According to , the school closed in 1997 which accords with my own recollection. I do know that the buildings that the records were kept in burned down shortly after its closure in 1997, and am wondering why it is listed that the school closed in the 70's when in fact it still did serve a purpose as a type of residential school even up into the 1990's. Otacon1ca (talk) 20:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, Otacon1ca. The 1975 date, as well as most of the dates listed, come from an AFN website which is now defunct. You can see the original here.

I'm not sure where that date comes from though. It looks, from the TRC (History, Part II, pg94-96) that there was some effort to close it, starting from 1970 onward, and was run by the FN as "Cowessess Community Education Centre" after 1987. I'll try to update this entry, but probably most of the list should be updated according to the TRC list because it's more complete and available online. - Themightyquill (talk) 21:40, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

If you have the TRC report then your edits would be most welcome Themightyquill. A bit of an aside, I do know that the day school that the residents attended was known as the "Cowessess Community Education Centre" which was also attended by students who did not live at the dormitories -- I don't know the official name of the residential school although it was commonly referred to as the "Marieval Residential School", it might've actually bore the same name as the day school. But I digress, if you have the book then feel free to make the needed edits, else I might be able to borrow a copy and compare the opening and closing dates of the schools. Thanks! - Otacon1ca (talk) 06:35, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

@Otacon1ca: It's all available online: Truth and Reconciliation Final Report - Themightyquill (talk) 18:04, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

References

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This list only contains IRSSA schools

Should this be made clear in the article? There were various other residential schools in Canada that were not directly federally administered and therefore were not included in the IRSSA (Ile-a-la-crosse for example). Jonggear (talk) 20:09, 1 September 2023 (UTC)