Talk:Legion (demons)

Additional Name

I don't have access to a bible at the moment, but I seem to remember that another English translation of the bible has the demon name itself "Mob" as in "And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Mob: because many devils were entered into him."

Can anyone confirm or deny this, because if it's true it should be added to the article Shinji nishizono 16:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it says "Mob" in the Good News translation as opposed to "Legion" which is said in the others. mysterio333

References

I believe that's from the Message paraphrase; the man says something along the lines of "Mob. I'm a rioting Mob." --3M163//Complete Geek 13:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

interesting point,on two places in scripture ,1 of Mary having 7 spirits,2 where Jesus talks of house being cleaned up ,that demon goes and gets. 7 super scum ratbags worse than himself and they enter into person to party n cause havoc. I don't think if I was Lucifer ,why would I waste 6000 of my troops on one deranged lunitic 173.209.143.114 (talk) 04:45, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Interpretation of the name

It seems likely to me that the phrase "My name is Legion, for we are many" simply means "we have many names because there are a lot of us" - rather than "Legion" being a proper noun denoting the name of the man or demon. Is there any indication that Legion is a proper noun in the bible? Guess what he was in Ghost Rider Shinji nishizono 16:16, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Shinji nishizono is correct: the article is mistaken in maintaining that "Legion are a group of demons". Whoever wrote it didn't have any sense of the language used in the Bible. The whole article needs to be rewritten by a Biblical scholar.88.167.22.75 (talk) 13:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

---

There is the Roman legion, the name for their army, a highly identifiable symbol in the time of christ. Maybe used to add a bit more punch to the response to christ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.14.129.123 (talk) 04:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

---

That roman legion page states about a division {legion} of roman legionairs that are slaughtered for their christian beliefs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.14.129.123 (talk) 16:12, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

---

Legion is also formed by the base word legos, stated in the roman "Legion" page, which means to collect. 67.183.205.78 (talk) 15:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

"Legion" is the direct translation of the word λεγεών, from Koine Greek into English.

67.183.205.78 (talk) 15:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

maybe there was a lead demon who was given the name by Lucifer. 5 times Jesus refers to the demon as singular,and in Mark 5:15&16 Jesus refers to this ONE demon who drove this guy nuts 173.209.143.114 (talk) 04:52, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Additional

Legion is a demon, and can be found in the Bible in Mark 5:9 and Luke 8:30. (A parallel version of the story can be found in Matthew 8:28-34, but this version does not contain the name "Legion" and tells of two men, not just one, possessed by a multitude of demons.) The story is told that Jesus met a man possessed by evil. This demonic possession spoke to Jesus in a conversation. This quote comes from Luke 8:30:

And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. The demons that composed Legion were aware of the tremendous power of Jesus, and begged to be spared from being tossed back into the bottomless pit of hell. Jesus instead cast the demons out of the man and into a herd of pigs. The pigs then drowned themselves in the Sea of Galilee.

John Dominic Crossan believes the story may be considered a parable of anti-Roman resistance. This would explain why the Gospels variously situate the story in Gadara, Gerasa and Gergesa: All three are disguises for Caesarea, the location of the actual events behind the story (see "Jesus as a Leader of Nonviolent Resistance"). Even if the story is taken to be historically factual, some of the details may be exaggerated. For example, pigs are excellent swimmers, and the ones who jumped into the lake may well have survived. (Unless of course the demons made the pigs drown)

David Icke and Joseph Atwill in his book Caesar's Messiah, believ that the story is a representation of Titus Vespasianus, as the messiah, and the invading Roman Legions in dealing with the Zealots and their insurrection in Caesarea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.114.164 (talk • contribs)

This is a very strange theory, since Vespasian (who, by the way, looked amazingly like Lyndon Johnson) was the commander of the Legions, not their adversary. Also, when you say "his" book, do you mean Icke or Atwill? This matter needs a lot of calrification to say the least. Das Baz 17:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Josephus' Jewish Wars 6.5.4: "But now, what did the most elevate them in undertaking this war, was an ambiguous oracle that was also found in their sacred writings, how," about that time, one from their country should become governor of the habitable earth." The Jews took this prediction to belong to themselves in particular, and many of the wise men were thereby deceived in their determination. Now this oracle certainly denoted the government of Vespasian, who was appointed emperor in Judea. However, it is not possible for men to avoid fate, although they see it beforehand. But these men interpreted some of these signals according to their own pleasure, and some of them they utterly despised, until their madness was demonstrated, both by the taking of their city and their own destruction."

"What more than all else incited them [the Jews] to the [1st Roman] war was an ambiguous oracle ... found in their sacred scriptures, to the effect that at that time one from their country would become ruler of the world. This they understood to mean someone of their own race, and many of their wise men went astray in their interpretation of it. The oracle, however, in reality signified the sovereignty of Vespasian who was proclaimed Emperor on Jewish soil" - Crossan, Who Killed Jesus?, p44, ISBN:0-06-061479-X

[1]: "Many scholars see another historical allusion in Mk 5:8-13 to a 'Legion' which had a pig as its emblem and which Josephus tells us remained in Jerusalem in the war's aftermath (Wars of the Jews 7.1.3). William Harwood writes in Mythology's Last Gods: "Since the fall of the city a few months earlier [in 70 C.E.], Jerusalem had been occupied by the Roman Tenth Legion [X Fretensis], whose emblem was a pig. Mark's reference to about two thousand pigs, the size of the occupying Legion, combined with his blatant designation of the evil beings as Legion, left no doubt in Jewish minds that the pigs in the fable represented the army of occupation. Mark's fable in effect promised that the messiah, when he returned, would drive the Romans into the sea as he had earlier driven their four-legged surrogates.""

Merge

Gadarenes should be Merged to Legion (demon). The Gadarenes in the gospel aren't notable outside of the story, and the subject of the modern day region is addressed in the article for Gadara. Thence, since the Gadarenes article has no purpose outside of the story of Legion, the information should be merged the (essentially same) information on the Legion page. Reasons for the direction of merge: a) Legion has about 5 times as many articles linking to it, b) it has 2 foreign Wiki articles whereas Gadarenes has none, c) it addresses the parallel story whereas the Gadarenes page doesn't, d) it has more information, references, etc. on it. Also, the Gadarenes aren't the focus of the story, Legion is. 24.126.199.129 09:54, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

One problem is that various gospels - and manuscripts thereof - have Gergesa and Gerasa instead of Gadara. The location of the story in Gadara is very far from one hundred percent certain. Das Baz 17:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Whoa whoa whoa, hold on a second.

I say that "[t]he demons that composed Legion were aware of the tremendous power of Jesus" is WP:Weasel and possibly WP:NPOV. I really think it can be worded much more clearly, without the implicit support of Christianity. The characterization in this article should be no different from what would be written about a comic book character (for example). If I don't hear back on this one, I'm going to go ahead and change it to something a bit more encyclopedic. Alwarren@ucsd.edu 05:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, to be fair, I have heard almost that exact phrase used in describing Legion's reaction to the C-man's mere presence. EVula // talk // ☯ // 06:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I have to disagree. Remember, the Gospels were not written as neutral works, they were written to persuade the readers that Jesus is the Christ; that said, this story was picked in order to highlight that Jesus was so powerful that He was feared by demons. Even from a neutral pov, it would be doing an injustice to write an article that removes the message of the story. Parrotlander 05:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

With the popular culture refs I would have to suggest that the Red Dwarf episode 'Legion' (Se6 Ep 2) is worthy of note, especially considering some of the phrases used by the 'gesalt entity' I dont have a copy of the episode to hand but I belive such a reference is much more notable than some others listed. Perhaps someone with access to the EP could look into this and add the appropriate information? 213.249.239.40 04:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)Trask

Well, in the Bible I have, an English version of 2002, it is written about Pigs and not sheep to drown! How in Israel at that time was a farm breeding Pigs, when the Jewish are not allowed to eat their meat, it is still one of the proof the Gospels are a rich collection of miths and leggends of the time written by Greeks and not an historical report of the life of Jesus, if we accept that ever existed a man called Jesus... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.89.191.143 (talk) 06:51, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean "and not sheep"? Where do you get the idea that this story is told about anything except pigs? Did you think there were no Gentiles living in first-century Palestine? Haven't you ever read the story of the Prodigal Son? Marnanel 02:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and since Gadara was a member of the Decapolis, it presumably had a large number of Greek residents who would be happy to eat pork. 65.213.77.129 (talk) 15:29, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Romans loved pork and required Jews to either raise pigs or pay a special pig tax.--74.7.67.210 00:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Read the book of revalations!

There is a phrase in the book of revalations (rather popular among the weak and wicked to justify their activities.) The phrase is somewhere in the letters to the angels of the churches. And I paraphrase, "I will appear as a thief in the night into your household." Sin-offerings and standard tribute to be given to temple (god more appropriatly) seem to be the reason for such thievery, or the lack of offer such things quite honestly. Were not the the swine sacrificed in exchange for the the demon infested person/s. Christ can make a demon's day dull, it would seem, while still not breaking the word of God.

I think you are missing the Point!

The area of the Gadarenes is a hot springs area and there are hundreds (maybe thoudsands) of tombs. Many of those tombs are graves. Gadara is a place of the Decapolis where ancient Necromancers lived among the dead. The "demoniac (s)" was a necromancer (s) that lived on the dead. Necromancers resided there in order to be possessed and to live "eternally." Possession is what they are seeking, not unlike shamans of today. Like most necromancers they are practicing vampires that eat the flesh and blood of the dead, not unlike the serial killers of the recent times. They believe that by living on human flesh and blood they will have immortality and in this case that is true. Certainly the gospel story has immortalized these demoniac-necromancers forever. Remember the vampire murders of Eustis, Florida:

Reuters November 29,1996 By Ron Popeski

Members of "Vampire Clan" Arrested in Louisiana BATON ROUGE, La (Reuter) - Louisiana police Friday were holding five teenagers from a self-styled "vampire clan" wanted in a double murder of one of the teen's parents in central Florida, officials said. Police from the Lake County, Florida, sheriff's department arrived in Baton Rouge Friday to begin questioning 15-year old Heather Wendorf and four other teenagers captured while trying to check into a downtown hotel Thanksgiving Day. The five teenagers were arrested on warrants charging first-degree murder in the bludgeoning deaths of Richard Wendorf, 49, and his wife Ruth Wendorf, 54, whose bodies were discovered by police late Monday in their home in Eustis, Florida, about 25 miles north of Orlando, police said. The teenagers were first reported missing in Murray, Kentucky, a small town near the western tip of Kentucky where they were known as members of "The Vampire Clan," a tight-knit, secretive group suspected of sucking blood from small animals and each other in graveyard rituals. "They like to cut their arms and suck the blood out of each other's arms," said Murray Police Sgt. Mike Jump. "In a ritual in a remote graveyard, they've been known to kill a small animal and suck the blood out of it, supposedly to give them more power."

"Life is in the blood...Do Not drink the blood..." Bible.

I am an exorcist and I have seen more than I care to report.

Wardc (talk) 14:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like "Eat of my body, drink of my flesh" Jesus Christ. What next Christ as the Vampire guy? --207.14.131.183 08:47, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

original research?

I wonder if there are works studying the possibility of the man possessed by the demons being a victim of multiple personality disorder. Does anyone know anything about this? Waldir ^talk 12:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I concur Having been around druggy ppl ,junkies etc,when they have excited deleriium,like similar to PCP they have super strength,not supernatural,and all it takes is one person to be wacked out to walk down a quiet street and that person is yelling top of their lungs,so the man in gadara,we don't know where he was from,dosent tell us....is doin the same ,yelling in caves,echo ,he thinks he's infested by a legion sounds l why would Jesus ask the demon its name ,he created it,He know all things .. way too many questions on this that very few take time to inquire about 173.209.143.114 (talk) 04:27, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

legions on the brain?

--207.14.129.217 (talk) 21:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Like. MinorProphet (talk) 06:12, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Mr. Garrison?

Is their anyway to find out if Mr. Garrison from South Park is a biblical reference to legion? Roman Legionairs used to occupy garrisons (forts).

Jesus Caesar

An alltogether different approach and explanation is found in the theory that Julius Caesar was the historical source for the christian myth: http://www.carota.de/subset/text/Lecture_Escorial_Carota.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koerbagh (talk • contribs) 10:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Dude... no. Just no.

Clean up

Guys, I had to clean this article up because the lead was a mess. I tried to follow Wikipedia:Lead guidelines for a lead. The quotes from the bible were all over the place so I also cleaned that up. 00:49, 17 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hutcher (talk • contribs)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of the discussion was to maintain the status quo. Tevildo (talk) 13:52, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

---

I propose that this article should be merged with Exorcising the Gerasenes demonic - they cover exactly the same subject matter, and this article (Legion (demon)) has more information on the geographical area of the miracle and more incoming links. However, there may be a more appropriate article title (Gerasenes demonic, perhaps?). Tevildo (talk) 00:12, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

• Oppose unless the new article is Exorcising the Gerasenes demonic which is the Gospel episode in which the demon character appears. History2007 (talk) 12:26, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment As Legion in popular culture shows, there are many, many, many references to Legion in historical and contemporary culture. I'd therefore strongly oppose using 'Exorcising the Gerasenes demonic' or 'Gerasenes demonic' as a title, as per WP:COMMONNAME, Legion is by far the better known name, and format by which this episode is known. Google books returns many more hits for 'Legion demon' than 'Gerasenes demonic', different manuscripts give variations of 'Gerasenes', 'Gadarenes' and 'Gergesenes', while it is a matter of scholarly debate whether the events took place in Gadara, Gerasa or Gergesa. For all these reasons using 'Gerasenes demonic' is a suboptimal choice.Benea (talk) 15:00, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I have not checked, but if there that many references to Legion, then it exists OUTSIDE the context of the Miracles of Jesus and the merge does not make sense. It certaily doe snot make sense to merge in that case, because the "Gospel episode" is then not related toall of those and needs to be on it sown. Therefore, the page Legion should cover all these other issues, and the separate page on the Gospel episode must remain. As is, there is a uniform structure for all Miracles of Jesus, wherein each has a brief description in it sown page. That uniformity i sbest maintained and Legion should remain a page on its own. I am therefore switching to oppose. However, after checking more, I think Legion must merge with Legion in popular culture. History2007 (talk) 15:41, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. There are three main issues - how many articles should we have on the subject, what should the articles contain, and what should their titles be? As things stand, we have three articles (Exorcising the Gerasenes demonic, Legion (demon), and Legion in popular culture). The topics that are currently covered are the miracle itself (in the "Gerasenes demonic" article), the Biblical texts (in the "Legion" article), scholarly research on the geography of the area (in the "Legion" article), and the use that various popular authors have made of "Legion" (in the "in popular culture" article). There isn't really anything on the demon itself (themselves?) - from, for example, the viewpoint of psychology. The size of the current "popular culture" article is probably too great for us to have just one article (see WP:IPC) - however, I think it would be more sensible to have all the scholarly/biblical material together in one place. If there's consensus against merging the "Gerasenes demonic" article here, I would suggest moving the "Location of the story" section from the "Legion" article to the "Gerasenes demonic" article, and merging the "In popular culture" article with the "Legion" article. I think that's what History2007 is proposing. Tevildo (talk) 12:53, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

There are really two topics here: One is the miracle reported in the Bible, the other is the demon and its attributes - which were later extended in popular items (I hesitate to say culture). So two articles, one about the biblical issues, the other about how the demon was later psycho-analyzed in Beverly Hills, how much it paid to the psychiatrist, etc. Think of it this way, there is one group of users who want to learn about the Biblical episode, and do not really need anything else. As in all other Gospel episode" accounts, that needs to be a brief and to the point page itself. There is another group who wants to explore the demon etc. and they need to see the page Legion, with a section called "In popular culture". Seems simple enough. History2007 (talk) 13:10, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

One or two possessed men?

I think there's a contradiction between the Gospels: according to Matthew 8:24, two men were possessed, whereas Mark 5:2 and Luke 8:26 only speak of one man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.147.136.50 (talk) 18:04, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

1 here and 2 there. Good observation! I think that it should be stressed in the text accordingly. Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 06:44, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

WP:SYNTH in (section) "In the Bible"

The following synthesis is tendentious and fundamentalist POV:

The Greek word chora (χώρα) is used in the original Greek,	the note is OK, if cited
translated "country" in the King James Version,	the note is OK
(but it can also be defined as meaning "the space lying between two places or limits" or "an empty expanse".[5])	(plain ridiculous, what has Greek mathematics to do with religious interpretations!)
In Luke 8:31, the word abyssos (άβυσσος) is used, meaning "bottomless pit".[6]	the note is OK, if cited
Although none of the words translated as "Hell" in the Bible (being sheol, Gehenna, Haides, tartaros) were used in the passage it can be interpreted, that they begged to be spared from being sent back to Hell.	[by whom?], this is a contentious point in Christianity, where many mystic Lutherans (priests that I know personally) reject the Hell interpretation, while fundamentalists use to claim that those that don't accept the Hell interpretation, "are not really Christians", this really needs citation

Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 06:16, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I wish to append (on need dictated from experience):

1. I don't need citations for doubting interpretations in wikipedia, nor for requiring that the text is properly cited,
2. reasons for removing requests for citations, doesn't include "your opinion doesn't count", it only includes: already cited nearby in the text,

Rursus dixit. (^mbork³!) 06:50, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Wow....

It's just a demon, not yer actual death knocking on the door. Cleanup needed, as in: delete entire article and start all over again. There may be one or two salvageable sentences. MinorProphet (talk) 06:16, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

@MinorProphet: Could you point to specific issues in sourcing, phrasing, formatting? The article doesn't say that Legion is real. In fact, it describes Legion as a character in a story that just happens to be in the Bible. Ian.thomson (talk) 06:25, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I'm really sorry, I think my comments were meant for talk:Exorcism of the Gerasene demoniac, and I may have become temporarily disoriented with 103 tabs open. If there was a point I was hoping to make, it would be "One demon, or many?" MinorProphet (talk) 06:39, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Duplicate article

Why do we need two articles on the same event? In ictu oculi (talk) 17:00, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree, but I would keep the article on the demons (which have cultural significance outside the Bible) and delete the article on the exorcism as a duplicate. Dimadick (talk) 16:03, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Note that most of the discussion on this topic is at Talk:Exorcism of the Gerasene demoniac#Duplicate article Legion (demons). Klbrain (talk) 06:52, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Legion

Oversette mitt navn er Legion, because we are many 171.23.6.112 (talk) 11:27, 14 October 2024 (UTC)