Talk:Larrun

Pyrene

Smuggling was of such importance that a local tale tells that the mountain was covered by gold until evil men came to take it away. They burned the trees on the mountain to reach the gold, but the metal melted and flowed away.

Isn't it a Greek legend of Pyrene, that the mounts take their name of fire ("pyros") burning them to melt the gold. If so, the story is much older than smuggling.

Rename proposal

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. Ucucha 13:41, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

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La Rhune → Larrun — per this this discussion at Commons. Paradoctor (talk) 04:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support no references in reference encyclopedia's, Google scholar returns similar results for both names, Larrun closer to ancient name and corresponds better with multi-lingual use, Larrun is a symbol for Basque people. Foroa (talk) 08:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support see this discussion at Commons. --Havang(nl) (talk) 08:32, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
• Havang, don´t delete my messages on the sly (see this: 10:16, 6 February 2010 Havang(nl) (talk | contribs) (142,893 bytes) (→People renaming categories of cities in Basque country: some cleaning from personal remarks) (undo). It´s my first and last notice to don´t repeat your dirty game. Just show me and the basque people who person you are. I don´t like the false people. Don´t speak or write me never more. --Euskalduna 14:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support, even the french IGN use Larrun on its map (in fact, its depend on wich map, sometimes its Larrun (La Rhune), La Rhune (Larrun), or just La Rhune). Cdlt, VIGNERON * ^discut. 11:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support, in my opinion linguistically Larrun is the correct term of the mountain: "Larrun"="Lar+un"="Larre Gune" ("Place of Meadows")="Larre" ("Meadow") + "Gune" ("Place"). La Rhune is an alteration of french language without meaning in that or other languages. Greetings. Euskalduna 18:25, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

  Did you have a reliable source for that etymology ? I can’t find somthing else than folk etymology. Cdlt, VIGNERON * ^discut. 18:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

  Le Pays Basque, sa population, sa langue, ses moeurs, sa littérature et sa musique, Francisque-Michel, 1857: "Larr":uncultivated land, meadow; un is less sure, ethymologie of the basque folk. --Havang(nl) (talk) 17:54, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Correction: the reference about "Larr" came from Jean-François Cerquand: Légendes et récits populaires du Pays Basque, pg. 41, "Larrea: terrain en nature de pâturage", which using also info from Michel about Larr, I interpretated: uncultivated land, meadow. But then I named the wrong book. --Havang(nl) (talk) 19:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

  1857 is not recent but Francisque Michel was a good philologist. But, I cant find Larrun in this book on Google books (but I didn't read all the book). Cdlt, VIGNERON * ^discut. 20:51, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

• Support, as it's proper name. -Theklan (talk) 17:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support.--Unai Fdz. de Betoño (talk) 18:30, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
• Support.--An13sa (talk) 18:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
• Oppose Google Scholar does not return similar results for both terms. Searching in English, thereby cutting out references in articles published in the Basque, French and Spanish languages, produces 54 hits for Larrun, the overwhelming majority of which have no connection with the mountain, and 151 for La Rhune. What French maps show is irrelevant, as we are discussing the common name in English useage. Normally, I would be very sympathetic to the use of the Basque name, but the problem here is that there is a railway to the summit of this mountain, which is quite a tourist feature. Both the railway and mountain are mentioned in numerous travel guides, almost all of which refer to La Rhune. Unfortunately, whilst I can find a couple of references in English publications to the Larrun river, I can find only one reference to the mountain (Matching National Stereotypes? Eating and Drinking in the Basque Borderland by Aitzpea Leizaola of University of the Basque Country). To justify the move, you need to produce examples of the use of Larrun in English texts. Skinsmoke (talk) 08:29, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Scholars La Rhune (69) and Scholars Larrun (54) produce pretty similar results. What am I missing ? Foroa (talk) 09:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Google search "Larrun mountain", other entry to english texts: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=nl&rls=p%2Ccom.microsoft%3Aen-US&num=100&btnG=Google+zoeken&as_epq=Larrun+mountain&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&cr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images --Havang(nl) (talk) 22:56, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Intersting lecture: http://www.unesco.org/cpp/uk/declarations/linguistic.pdf

• <<Art.1-3. For the purpose of this Declaration, groups are also deemed to be in their own territory and to belong to a language community in the following circumstances:

i. when they are separated from the main body of their community by political or administrative boundaries; …>> So it seems that the Basques in the Northern Basque Country form not just a language group as defined in article 5 but that they belong to a language community.

Language communities have more rights than language groups: <<Article 38: The languages and cultures of all language communities must receive equitable and nondiscriminatory treatment in the communications media throughout the world.>> Larrun and La Rhune are both used in english; Larrun as native name has the right to prevail. --Havang(nl) (talk) 12:31, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.