Talk:Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri

Requested move 25 June 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri. Everyone agreed there should be some sort of move and this option had the most support. I'll create the other alternatives as redirects. Jenks24 (talk) 19:58, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

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Kang Jin, Sam In-li Torreya Nucifera (Coniferous Tree) → ? – Misnamed article but am having trouble with translations and sourcing as to the proper name. Possibilities include:

• "Torreya Tree of Byeongyeong-myeon" (as at #39 on Natural monuments of South Korea); or
• "Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri" from Cultural Heritage Administration

Either way, not seeing "Kang Jin" described anywhere, and also need to remove species name from title. Once moved article can be cleaned up to use article name and other reliable sourcing. ☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 17:20, 25 June 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 22:19, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

• Support some sort of move. Absolutely no reason to have "(Coniferous Tree)" in title. I'd lean towards "Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri" since there's a source for that name (I'm a little surprised that the Korean Cultural Heritage Administration is happy with "Japanese Torrey" as the English common name for Torreya nucifera, but if they're not going to push another common name that implies a broader range for the species and down-plays Japan, there's no reason for Wikipedia to reject the name the KCHA uses). Plantdrew (talk) 07:22, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
• Support a move to Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri. If that's the name used by South Korea's own Cultural Heritage Administration then surely it can't be too controversial? PC78 (talk) 22:59, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
• Comment. The current name is pretty gibberish-like at first glance, but I'll try my best at deciphering it. Ko wiki article is 강진 삼인리 비자나무 , which Google Translate renders as "gangjin sam-inli bijanamu", or "Visa trees earthquake saminri". My limited Korean can only suffice to say that namu means tree, but let's move on. 삼인리 seems to be a Ri (administrative division) (incorrectly translated as li in the current title), so Sam In-li should be "Samin-ri". Korean Wikipedia does not seem to have an entry for that ri. Do note that Gangjin is another rendering of Kang Jin, 강진, and translates as earthquake. 강진 appears in article several times, and is used in sources [1] and [2]. I was confused for a while, but what helped is the address here and on official page listed above, which gives Gangjingun (or Kang Jin-gun). Gun is Gun (administrative division), so this is another administrative address part, this one has an en wiki entry at Gangjin County. 비자, which google translates as Visa, is still mystery to me (shrug). "Torreya Nucifera (Coniferous Tree)" from our current title refers to the tree species. Regarding the proposed names, Byeongyeong-myeon refers to ko:병영면 (in current article spelled Byoung Young-myun), that's another administrative division (at Myeon (administrative division) level). Now, regarding the "Torreya Tree of Byeongyeong-myeon", this seems like an unofficial translation, Natural monuments of South Korea also gives the Korean name I just parsed above (강진 삼인리 비자나무). Finally, the adjective Japanese seems to refer not to who planted it or owned it or such, but simply is one of the several names of the Torreya nucifera tree. Now, the only English source presented is the official [3], so I can see an argument to follow the official name and move it to " Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri", but do note that the page actually states " Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri, Gangjin". It is, however, not very correct. Japanese Torreya could be more neutrally rendered as Torreya nucifera, avoiding any confusion or nationalistic saber-rattling, so frankly I'd propose Torreya nucifera of Samin-ri, with the official Japanese torreya of Samin-ri being the second choice (whether to capitalize the second word in those names I'd leave to those who speak English natively). Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:19, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
  • @PC78, Plantdrew, and Loriendrew: Thoughts on Piotrus's suggestion of Torreya nucifera of Samin-ri? Jenks24 (talk) 07:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

More inclined toward "Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri" since this appears to be a proper name (a monument or specific tree/grove) rather than a generic description, keeping the capitalized "T". If it were just some generic regional shrubbery then the first option might be better. As for Japanese... Well, if that is what the Koreans call it then why would we change it?.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 11:25, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Piotrus makes a good suggestion which may arguably be a "better" title, but I'm inclined to agree with Loriendrew that we use the name which has some sort of official usage. PC78 (talk) 15:40, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

"Torreya nucifera of Samin-ri" is acceptable to me. Since the Korean Wikipedia article and Cultural Heritage Administration include "Gangjin", maybe it should be "Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri, Gangjin" if we're treating the CHA page as providing an official English name. Plantdrew (talk) 17:50, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Japanese Torreya of Samin-ri, Gangjin is also fine. PC78 (talk) 18:24, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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