Talk:Israel–South Africa relations

Citation of the Complicate Relationship Between Israeli and SA Military

Request to include the relationship between the Israeli military and apartheid South African government. It would offer quotes from extensive archival research and exclusive interviews with former generals and high-level government officials in both countries. The rigorously researched source offers light to the relationship between two governments behind closed doors. While the Israeli left offered support of black African liberation during Apartheid, military relationships between the two governments intensified, demonstrating the growing ambivalence of one nation and a geopolitical shift following the events of 1967.

The user does not suggest taking sides but including this publication to shed yet another dimension on the multi-faceted bilateral relations of two nations at a politically contentious moment.

Citaiton: The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's Secret Relationship with Apartheid South Africa Author: Sasha Polakow-Suransky, a deputy editor at Foreign Policy. Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group, Jun 14, 2011 MandelaKingFanon (talk) 16:06, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

It looks like there is already some information in the "Military cooperation" section, including citations of "The Unspoken Alliance". If there is more to add to that section, that would be great. Historyday01 (talk) 13:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@MandelaKingFanon Do you know any good source for cooperation on nuclear weapons? That seems very important but I only vaguely remember the story. One of them gave the other the tech, SA disarmed but Israel hasn't. Irtapil (talk) 06:38, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Actually there's already a whole section on "Alleged nuclear collaboration" but it does seem to rely too much on too few sources, so stop interested in any others you can suggest. Irtapil (talk) 06:43, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 January 2024

I wish to update information regarding the recent Lawsuit in the ICJ, as an expert on the topic, and siting sources such as associated press, and Reuters Istari552 (talk) 23:58, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 04:57, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

My guess is that they want to add part of the official South African application and the ICJ press release. I found some articles from The Week, FirstPost, Times of Israel (about U.S. government disagreement with application), Associated Press, Independent, Reuters, Al Jazeera, The Guardian, BBC, Irish Central, CodePink (press release of peace organizations supporting the South African application), PBS NewsHour, and Truthout. That's just a few sources I can find off-hand. I would say it definitely deserves at least 1-3 sentences, since there would undoubtedly be more stories in the coming year. Historyday01 (talk) 13:44, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@Historyday01

I think that should form a substantial section of the new lead (see our section on this talk page), if you are able to edit the article please add it, if not please post a draft section here and if it's suitable I'll add it for you. Irtapil (talk) 04:24, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

@Irtapil That's a good idea actually since it appears, from some recent articles I've read, that diplomatic relations are very strained. And this article should be updated to reflect recent changes. Historyday01 (talk) 04:43, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Building off my last comment, I added in about the recent lawsuit in an edit here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel%E2%80%93South_Africa_relations&action=history Historyday01 (talk) 15:03, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

@Istari552

If you would like to add updated content please draft it here, with citations included, and if it is suitable someone will happily copy it to the article. Irtapil (talk) 04:21, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Lead needs to summarise present day situation

I moved the lead section into history, it had nothing sent the present situation. The opening line should probably be whether SA recognises Israel as a state? As far as i know, the answer is no, as of fairly recently? Irtapil (talk) 04:19, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

I think the lead is fine presently, but there should be, at minimum, 1-2 lines about the South Africa v. Israel (Genocide Convention) case and present tensions between Israel and South Africa. Historyday01 (talk) 13:55, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Israel was not an open critic of the apartheid in SA but rather in support of it

The phrasing “Up to 1986, Israel did not take part in most international sanctions imposed on apartheid South Africa by the international community. Nevertheless, the following year Israel joined the sanctions, mainly as a consequence of American pressure.” - although a clever way of making it seem like Israel only restrained from criticising the apartheid for just a year - leads to misconception. Israel had been supporting the apartheid for decades at that time already. 146.0.216.172 (talk) 18:36, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I'd be fine with revising that line to make clear that Israel was in support of apartheid BEFORE being forced to change their view. Historyday01 (talk) 19:06, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

I rewrote it to reflect their ongoing relationship prior to 1986.--User:Namiba 19:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for dong that. Historyday01 (talk) 19:59, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Israel calls Palestinians "modern heirs of the Nazis"

This claim should be removed. I've checked the source, and it does not suggest that Palestinians are the modern heirs of the Nazis. It's more like it's referring to Hamas. TimothyforGod (talk) 22:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)