Talk:Iran–United States relations/Archive 1

Archive 1

petroeuro shifted to 2005-2006 US-Israeli threats to attack Iran

i shifted the following section to 2005-2006 US-Israeli threats to attack Iran:

On March 20, 2006, Iran plans to participate in a new International Oil futures exchange, trading oil priced as Petroeuros, rather than Petrodollars, as oil is traded in all other markets (as of 2005). This attempt to rebalance trading relationships in the world economy may trigger a series of far reaching consequences, including the potential for a resource war with the United States of America over the flow of both dollars and oil. However as the date of March 20, 2006 draws closer this seems decreasingly probable.

though i reworded it somewhat, and i removed the last sentence as it was unsourced. If someone finds a source, please feel welcome to bring it back (probably in 2005-2006 US... ?) with an appropriate citation. i think decisions on NPOV summarising the whole situation probably need to be done in the other article, though of course, i hope that people will come to this article to read the general background of US-Iran relations (there's a summary at the beginning of 2005-2006 US... about US-Iran relations in the XXth century). Boud 15:19, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

who is arthur keenan?

See the edit by 18:32, 14 February 2006 69.56.125.33 who replaced Howard Baskerville by Arthur Keenan - at present, Arthur Keenan is a red link and i don't see any evidence claiming the baskerville article is wrong. So i reverted to baskerville. Boud 23:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Needs an overview

This article doesn't have much of an overview of what the current official status is. Is it recognition? Are they on speaking terms? When was the last official contact? Also, I think we could stand to include this image in the article, it's pretty illustrative of what"s happened to the former american presence there. Night Gyr 21:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I do believe the last official contact was with Robert McFarlane. I recall he visited Tehran in the mid 80s. I cant recall of anything afterwards.--Zereshk 04:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sent a letter to Bush a month ago: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's letter to George W. Bush; and now the US has accepted the principle of talks with Iran together with the EU-3 - see e.g. http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/PressReleases/2006/prn200611.html. Boud 23:50, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

See the section Direct Inter-Parliamentary (Congress-to-Majlis) informal talks - these were not official talks, but they were talks between elected representatives (both US and Iranian representatives are filtered from being selected - in the US by the party machines and media control and in Iran by the Guardian Council and media control - but there is certainly some element of democracy in both cases, more than in, say, North Korea or Saudia Arabia). In any case, it's not as if Iran is on Mars, i'm sure there must have been other recent cases of contact between politicians of the two countries... Boud 23:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

template:US-Iran relations

I propose making a table for the articles related to this issue like "Template:Arab-Israeli Conflict".--Sa.vakilian 12:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

President Khatami?

How is there no mention of president Khatami? He was president before Ahmadinejad and he and his reformist friends were making serious efforts to establish relations with the U.S. Things were going alright until Bush took over and declared Iran part of the axis of evil. This ironically destabilized the reformists and Khatami and allowed the neoconservative radical party of Ahmadinejad to take over who are more hostile to the U.S. and more friendly towards terror. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:70.119.9.81 (talk • contribs)

Feel free to edit it. Anyone can edit!! -- Szvest - ^{Wiki me up ®} 10:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge request: Plans_for_military_attacks_against_Iran

At the moment, there is a AfD on the related Plans_for_military_attacks_against_Iran. It may be best to merge the relevant bits of that article into this article. --70.51.234.169 23:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Iraq war

I think the US's support of iraq's failed invasion and campaign against Iran should be mentioned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.158.64 (talk) 02:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Concerns of Iranian and US governments against each other

IMO this section, and many of the sections that follow, are too overtly political for Wikipedia. This could easily (and should not) degenerate into a litany of complaints and accusations against the USA or Iran. Things should be phrased in more general terms, as accurately and as neutrally as possible. Should we put Rush Limbaugh into this mix? It would be better to chop all of this out, and simply say that the major concern is that strong rhetoric on both sides seem to indicate a continuing degradation in the US and Iranian relationship. It is hard to be more accurate than that.

"strong rhetoric on both sides seem to indicate a continuing degradation" seems quite vague and also would be rather close to original research, since it would claim that the concerns by both sides are only "rhetoric" and have no basis in genuine problems/concerns/worries. Stating the lists of concerns (complaints and accusations) by both sides does not (should not, in the case of wikipedia) try to establish which of the complaints and accusations are true or false, though if relevant wikipedia entries exist, then linking to them would be natural. Readers can then go to those entries and decide from the NPOV versions of those articles if they want to believe one or the other or both or neither parties. The fears by either side, or the statements (whether sincere or hypocritical) by politicians on either side, can be reasonably NPOV reported to exist. The relations between two states are either good or bad (or somewhere in between) depending partly on what problems are perceived to exist and also on what problems genuinely exist.

If you believe any of the claims are POV or OR, then add an appropriate tag to those items. Or discuss the specific items here on the discussion page. The wording introducing the two lists could (probably should) be NPOVed, and more references should probably be provided for the specific points. Feel free to find the references and add them. It requires a bit of web searching and editing work, but that's what many of us do in wikipedia.

Boud 03:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Most of the concerns do have links to either a wikipedia article or to an external source, so the work remaining is on the few points which lack these; and on the introductory sentences. Boud 04:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe this section is key to the article. Is there a specific reference to the work of Jahangir Amuzegar? --Ren or stimpy 10:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Why did the US raid the Consulate?

That's about it. VolatileChemical 02:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This is so one sided. No mention of the fact that these guys were from the Revolutionary Guards Quds Force?Badbrad101 01:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Allegedly? --64.109.56.207 03:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

External Links

I've added an external link to the article 'Surrounded: Seeing the World from Iran’s Point of View' by Dr. Houman A. Sadri, Associate Professor of International Relations at the University of Central Florida in the U.S. Army Combined Arms Center - Military Review (July-August 2007 English Edition). Although there already seem to be rather a lot of external links of possibly questionable value I think this one fits in nicely with this Wiki page. Have a read. Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Iranian-backed Hezbollah

User M3taphysical added an "Iranian-backed" before Hezbollah and somebody seem to have trouble with that and reverted it today. I support the revert by the anonymous coward. As a matter of fact, If anyone insists on putting the "Iranian-backed" back, I'd demand that he/she adds a "US-backed" before Israel. The Wiki will not tolerate double-standards. Thank you. Lixy 18:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Difference is that Hezbollah is actually a proxy of Iran. Israel is a country. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, Israel is a country. Who runs this place? This page is one big Anti-American Rant. No mention of Iran's support for insurgents in Iraq, them attempting to kidnap american soldiers and actually kidnapping UK sailors/marines. Way one sided...Badbrad101 01:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

If you did some serious research on Hezbollah, you'd find out that it is a grassroots movement created to fight the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon. It was voted into governement by the Lebanese people and that shows how fed up the locals are of the regular attacks on the sovereignty of their country. Also, kidnapping doesn't apply to military personel. In that case, we talk about capture. Anyway, the US does kidnap Iranian officials, has raided the Iranian embassy in Baghdad and Bush continues terrorizing the Iranian people by talking about "all options [being] on the table". Lixy 12:35, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Lixy... just look at the way you talk... bias anyone? This page is a disgrace. Those Iranian 'officials' were Quds forces. I'll do some research and should be able to show more than a few cases of Iranian agression against the US or Iran supporting the enemies of the US and other terrorist organizations... like Hezbollah. Not to mention the fact I was 12 miles from the Iranian boarder for a year and was privy to plenty I cannot share with you. They have plenty of US blood on their hands... and the fact that you still think WE are the bad guys is disconcerting.Badbrad101 16:03, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Odd Russia and Iraq condemned it then. Maybe not everything coming out of the US government is accurate, whether it is because of incompetence or intentions. --64.109.56.207 03:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. Sean.hoyland (talk) 05:23, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Current intro not neutral, and has no header

As it stands, the current intro has a paragraph that reads as follows:

American antagonism toward the Islamic Republic has led to sanctions on trade between the two countries, while the Islamic Republic has expressed its antipathy to "the Great Satan" in slogans such as "On that day when the US ... will praise us, we should morn," and "United States of America after Qods occupier regime [Israel] is the most hated before our nation."[1] This strikes me as slightly inflammatory, since it is written using presumably Iranian labels e.g. "the Great Satan" and "Occupier Regime". While such labels can be illustrative to capture the supposed Iranian point of view, it is not neutral. (I am assuming good faith was made in the writing of the above paragraph, but I believe it is still likely to be provocative due to its bias.)

I'd like to make this whole paragraph more neutral sounding, in addition to adding a header. If anyone has advice, please feel free to suggest it by replying.Twir (talk) 20:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, I will just delete the paragraph for now, since it also has no information not contained elsewhere in the article. For instance, the mention of trade sanctions is irrelevant since there is a section (and a separate article) about this already.Twir (talk) 20:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Iranian Oil

On 22:04, 8 November 2005 68.59.6.216 edited the page to include "However as the date of March 20, 2006 draws closer this seems decreasingly probable" with respect to the International Oil Bourse. Please substantiate this!

I was just about to ask about this as well "This attempt to rebalance trading relationships in the world economy may trigger a series of far reaching consequences, including the potential for a resource war with the United States of America over the flow of both dollars and oil. However as the date of March 20, 2006 draws closer this seems decreasingly probable." In what way is war becoming decreasingly probable? If anything its increasingly. Please back this up Genjix 22:11, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

---

I thought that George W. Bush has said that Iran harbors Al qaeda terrorists. This in spite the fact that the Taliban who hosted Al Qaida have been Iran's mortal enemies due to their strong anti-shia policy. Source Ahmed Rashid's book about the Taliban. (I find such total igorance of the facts by the most powerful man on this planet quite upsetting.) Andries 18:22, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You might want to consider adding something about the US backing Iraq in the 80's in the Iraq-Iran War to overthrow the Ayatollah. That had to have further marred US-Iran relations. Drozmight 09:37, 28 Jan 2005 (PST)

That issue is discussed in these articles:

• Iran-Iraq War#Foreign support to Iraq and Iran
• U.S. support for Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war
• U.S. support for Iran during the Iran-Iraq war

Thanks, Erxnmedia (talk) 20:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

This section makes some pretty unreliable citations, specifically this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Iran_relations#cite_note-maavak-62 which appears to be more of a conspiracy theory rant than anything scholarly or remotely factual. I do believe this section would be better suited to show Iran's willingness to use Oil as an economic weapon should escalating sanctions continue from the EU, the US and the UN, and its possible ramifications on the global oil market from an economist’s perspective. 12.32.91.79 (talk) 19:56, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Overemphasis on Bush administration

The article is stressing the Bush jr. administration too much - up to two-thirds of the article deals with his administration. I think that perhaps a sixth is more appropriate. We should summarize his administration, and perhaps create one or some subarticles. Sijo Ripa (talk) 13:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

There is also the issue that President Bush is often referred to without the title of President. Some may not agree with the president's policies but the title of President should be applied when using his name in the article. At least use the title out of respect for the office. Again, it is not appropriate to say or write that Bush did this or that. Rather, the article should read President Bush. I will make this adjustment. --Edwin Larkin (talk) 18:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that you are quite right. I think it's consistent with Wiki guidelines and conventions (which are admittedly confusing on this issue) to refer to George W.Bush as 'Bush' in inline text without the title. It's also okay to include the title 'President' in the inline text but it's not necessary. Have a look at the various articles about presidents/prime-ministers around the world. I would imagine that edits based on 'respect for the office' probably aren't appropriate for Wiki. Anyway, perhaps someone knows more than me and can advise. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

POV edits

I reverted because the previous edits were not neutral. I don't see it as being less simple than that. 129.71.73.243 (talk) 23:58, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

A tag isnt warranted (and can be removed) unless you specifically say which sentences are POV, and discuss them.--زرشک (talk) 07:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Khobar Towers bombing

I have removed the following text from Clinton section.

In 1996, Iran orchestrated the Khobar Towers bombing that killed 19 U.S. service members.

Can whoever added this make the effort to improve it so that it isn't stated as if it's a fact. Sean.hoyland - talk 05:54, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

What's wrong with this sentence ?

I just removed this from the lead.

At the moment, there is concern that the United States government intends to start an unprovoked War against Iran.

Let's all try to agree that adding unqualified statements like this to an encyclopedia is just plain wrong....in so many ways Sean.hoyland - talk 04:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

UAV overflights / Concerns of Iranian and US governments section

I added one of the many cites on UAV overflights to this section, in hopes that it stops bad editing from 129.71.73.243. But this is a less than fabulous solution, as the citation is not really in the context of the section. Any advice would be welcome. Pugget (talk) 20:16, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Any Primary Sources?

Does anyone know of any primary sources for this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lillivx5 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the Iran-United States relations, the following might do:

• Nikki R. Keddie, with a section by Yann Richard, Modern Iran: Roots and results of revolution, revised and updated edition (Yale University Press, New Haven, 2003). ISBN 0-300-09856-1

• The Secret CIA History of the Iran Coup, 1953, National Security Archive, Electronic Briefing Book, No. 28, The George Washington University.

• The CIA in Iran, New York Times, 2000, [1].

• Fifty Years After the CIA's First Overthrow of a Democratically Elected Foreign Government. We Take a Look at the 1953 US Backed Coup in Iran, Democracy Now!, August 25, 2003, [2].

--BF 03:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the Israel-Palestine relations, the following might do:

• Noam Chomasky, Failed States: The Abuse of Power and the Assault on Democracy, Henry Holt and Company, New York, 2006. ISBN 0-8050-8284-0

See in particular Chapter 5 herein. --BF 16:38, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

2008 U.S. rejected Israeli plea to attack Iran

I added:

The New York Times reported in January 2009 that Israel approached the White House in early 2008 with requests for an attack on Iran's main nuclear complex, which the Bush administration rejected.

I think this begs the question: how often does Israel ask for permission from the US, before it goes to war? Does anyone know of any other times Israel ask for permission from the US, before it went to war? Ikip (talk) 19:30, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Israel asks always USA's permission. This is partly (but not entirely) because Israel has no security pacts with the USA; Israel is also not part of the NATO. Thus, should any action by Israel lead to a military reaction against Israel, Israel can in principle not count on the support of the USA. In the specific case of carrying out attacks on Iran, Israel would above all need the permission of the USA to use the air spaces of all the countries between Israel and Iran, in particular Iraq (that is called the American Hegemony in the region). Theoretically, if the Israeli air force were to reach Iran using the international air space, returning to Israel would not be possible without being able to land on a landing space in the control of the USA (fuel tanks of fighter jets are not large enough for a return flight; in-flight refuelling would also need to take place in the air space of a country outside Iran). Turkey being part of the NATO, the Israeli jets would not be able to scape Iran through Turkey without involving the entire NATO (which includes the USA) in the ensuing hostilities. Those who have been keeping abreast of the international news will know that Iran had officially announced that any attack by Israel on Iranian facilities would be interpreted by Iran as an American attack, whereby Iran would consider all American interests in the region as legitimate targets of a counter attack. Hence, Israel was at no time in a position to take any military action against Iran (despite all her sabre-rattlings) on her own. --BF 21:42, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your lengthy response, you said "Israel asks always USA's permission." Do you know of any other times Israel ask the US for permission before it went to war? Anyone else? There must be something on the internet about this... Ikip (talk) 02:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

You are welcome. As for your question, please read this article by George Monbiot: Israel responded to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah, right? Wrong (The Guardian, Tuesday 8 August 2006). You could also watch this video of the talk that Professor Noam Chomski gave on 13 January 2009 in the auditorium of MIT: Noam Chomski on Gaza. It consists of eleven parts, each covering approximately ten minutes of the talk (the first six cover the talk, and the rest the answers to questions from students). Here Professor Chomski explicitly states that where one reads that 'Israel took this or that military action' one must understand that 'America and Israel took this or that military action' (I paraphrase). --BF 17:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, this is awesome. I will start reading and watching this right now. Maybe there is an article in this, or a template, or at least a subsection.Ikip (talk) 18:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Chomsky Segment 1: Israel's invasion of Lebannon in 1982 was "authorized" by the United States.

Not really authorization:

"The San Francisco Chronicle reports that "more than a year ago, a senior Israeli army officer began giving PowerPoint presentations, on an off-the-record basis, to US and other diplomats, journalists and thinktanks, setting out the plan for the current operation in revealing detail". The attack, he said, would last for three weeks. It would begin with bombing and culminate in a ground invasion." Israel responded to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah, right? Wrong (The Guardian, Tuesday 8 August 2006).

Ikip (talk) 18:15, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Dear Ikip, you seem to be confusing 1982 with 2006. Professor Chomski refers to the 1982 invasion, so there is nothing contradictory here. Incidentally, thank you for the Barnstar. --BF 18:40, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Ps. The war in South Lebanon could lead to an attack by Israel on Syria; Hezbollah had threatened to strike Tel Aviv, which would only be possible through using the Iranian-made Shahāb rockets (or Zalzāl rockets), delivered to Hezbollah by Iran through Syria — Israel had explicitly stated that Israel would attack Syria in the event of Tel Aviv being attacked (the casus belli being that the rockets used were delivered to Hezbollah through Syria). It happens that Iran and Syria have signed a military pact, obliging both countries to enter war in the event of one country being attacked by a third one. Thus the war in South Lebanon could theoretically lead to a major international war in the ME. It follows that the invasion of Israel into South Lebanon could not have taken place without the explicit approval of the USA. In fact, were it not for the political support of the USA at the UN, Israel could not have continued to bomb Lebanon as long as they did. --BF 19:11, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry i was not clear, I was refering to two events (2006, 1982), in two different papers. I was simply stating that the guardian article did not claim their was any authorization (2006) as I ask, but that the chomsky video does (1982). Unfortunately, I like too use Chomsky as an information pool, but not as a reference, because people see Chomsky as a partisan, and too pov. Without references, I cannot really confirm this information, and their is no footnotes in the chomsky interview. Ikip (talk) 04:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

References

Incomprehensible

The whole Iran's alleged criticism of U.S. Government's "colonial government" in Puerto Rico (U.N.) section is basically incomprehensible and should be rewritten. Raul654 (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

its not biased. that statement is the Iranian govt stance on the issue. Its like saying Americas criticism of Irans nuclear development is biased therefor it should not be written...this is relation page, which allegations are part of the story —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.110.237 (talk) 21:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

totallydisputed tag

I would like to propose removal of the {{totallydisputed}} tag in the hope that this will trigger people who care to detail the concerns they have as to the neutrality and factual accuracy of this article on this discussion page so that the issues can be resolved. Having read the article I think it is fair to say that it needs some work.

I'll start off the discussion with a proposal to remove the 'Its suggested other complaints might include[citation needed]' section entirely from 'Concerns of Iranian and US governments'. Without citations that link these to statements by the Iranian and/or US governments about obstacles to resumption of relations this list adds little to the article. Sean.hoyland (talk) 06:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Since no one responded I have removed the following section and put it here

Its suggested other complaints might include:

• CIA Operation Ajax to overthrow democratically chosen Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh and restore the exiled Shah;
• U.S. Support for anti-Iranian terrorist organisations (i.e. the MKO);
• U.S. companies assistance in developing Iraq's chemical weapons facilities during the Iran-Iraq war.;
• USS Vincennes shooting down Iran Air Flight 655 with many civilian fatalities;
• Economic damage caused by U.S. sanctions and political pressure;
• U.S. UAV overflights over Iran violating Iranian airspace since 2003.
• U.S. military presence in the neighboring countries of Iraq and Afghanistan.
• Its human rights record.
• US, a democracy, used weapons of mass destruction (a nuclear weapon) as a tool in war. The only occurrence known in the recorded human history.

Sean.hoyland (talk) 19:28, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand how America's use of nuclear weapons in war have any bearing, especially in regard to Iranian complaints toward the U.S. America's stance on nuclear non-proliferation has been the same for decades, and involves dozens of countries, spread over the world. This seems to portray an American bias towards Iran, as if Iran specifically can't enrich uranium. Additionally, this subject is too broad for U.S.-Iranian relations, being that the U.S. is not alone in its opposition to Iran's nuclear program, but is acting through the U.N. and the international community. I would suggest this be changed to "The U.S. is a supporter of the U.N. sanctions on Iran, regarding Iran's Nuclear program", or similar. Betenhauser (talk) 10:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

has someone put America's use of nuclear weapons in war back in the article ? just to be clear, i removed the stuff listed above and i'm not suggesting it gets put back. i'll strike it out above just to be clearer. Sean.hoyland - talk 12:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Sean.hoyland you cant just take out facts because it makes America look bad. It seems you have a pro american agenda. you can and should only take out facts that are not proven. Taking out facts like america violating Iranian air space is just an example of YOU tampering with the facts. just because nobody responded to your pointless post, doesnt give you the right to do what you like. Stop tampering with the facts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.110.237 (talk) 21:30, 14 February 2009

Yeah, that's me all over, Captain Pro-American foreign policy. If I removed something that should be put back (with a reliable source) that is pertinent to this subject matter I apologise. You can put it back. Violations of Iranian airspace are definitely relevant to this issue but it needs a reliable source. See WP:V. Sean.hoyland - talk 10:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

..and in particular this.

I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons.

–Jimmy Wales

That means that you should be aggressively removing unsourced information from this article and any other articles you edit. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:20, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

References

Proposed merger to this page

A proposal to merge the content at Diplomatic tensions between Iran and the United States was made several months ago but was improperly tagged. I support this merger and have decided to resurrect the proposal. Please comment at Talk:Diplomatic tensions between Iran and the United States#Merger Proposal. CopaceticThought (talk) 00:16, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Domestic politics in Iran

Unless someone makes the effort using reliable sources to connect the information in the 'Domestic politics in Iran' subsection with the subject matter of this article 'Iran – United States relations' I suggest we delete it. The section deals with statements about Israel. If these statements affected 'Iran – United States relations' then it needs to be spelled out and explained based on RS. It's not self evident. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the entire section below for the reasons stated above. Sean.hoyland - talk 07:16, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Domestic politics in Iran

Remarks made by conservative Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who was elected in 2005, have been interpreted by analysts such as Ali Ansari as having national electoral aims internally in Iran, and by others such as the Israeli government as constituting threats to attack Israel.

In October 2005, he made remarks to domestic audiences agreeing with Ayatollah Khomeini's statement that the occupying regime in Palestine should vanish from the page of time, citing in his speech that the regime of the Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Soviet Union as a state and Saddam Hussein's government of Iraq, had similarly been removed from power. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad claims that the remarks have been mistranslated and misinterpreted by the Western media. Ahmadinejad also made remarks on December 8, 2005, doubting the Holocaust.

These controversial remarks are generally considered to be in line with his populist voting base - 19% of voters chose him in the first round of the 2005 presidential election.

Seema Mustafa in the Asian Age claimed that Ahmadinejad's remarks relating to Israel and the Holocaust are now used as a major reason for an attack against Iran, stating that:

A campaign to demonise Ahmadinejad to rally around international opinion against Iran has been very effectively unleashed. He has, in fact, been carefully inducted as a key component in the propaganda war against Iran....

and that this argument was presented to journalists in Delhi by German-French-UK representative Dr Michael Schaefer and US undersecretary Nicholas Burns when they were requesting Indian representative to accept IAEA referral of Iran to the UN Security Council.

References

Material from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad article

I moved here several paragraphs from the article on Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that are relevant, and so far as I can tell non-duplicative. They contain more detail than is appropriate for the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad article.EdH (talk) 16:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Caption

I have removed from the caption of the image of American hostages the reference to their return to US soil. They were intially held in the Embassy. Only after the failed rescue attempt were the American hostages removed from US soil. CMarshall (talk) 14:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

September 23rd, 2010 Statements at the UN.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703384204575510360703483450.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.114.227 (talk) 13:25, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

"Preparing for Conflict"

Hcobb added a section to this article titles "Preparing for Conflict" citing a DefenseNews claim that the Pentagon fund was requesting funding for projects designed to counter Iran. I've removed this for a few reasons. First, the section title was inflammatory beyond any information from the source. There is nothing at all in the source to indicate a move by the US or the Department of Defense towards a military conflict with Iran. Funding projects "aimed at Iran" can mean a lot of things, most of them falling short of actual conflict. Furthermore, the article does not go into any detail on what it means by "aimed at Iran," or even who made that determination. The quote on Iran is only that several of the budget items "seem to be aimed at Iran." I feel this falls very far short of a claim of preparations for conflict, and is likely not even worth mentioning in an article that is an overview of Iran - US relations. At least, not until we have a lot more information. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 07:54, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

How many dozen refs do you want me to dump in that show that both Iran and the USA are fielding systems that are designed to counter each other? Give me that number, and I'll add them in. Hcobb (talk) 03:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

How about one that even says that? The article you used said nothing of the sort; it had absolutely not information at what projects "aimed at Iran" meant. Defense projects include far more than just actual field-able military hardware. More to the point, fielding systems designed to counter each other does not mean that you are actually expecting or preparing for conflict, which is what you claimed. What your source has is a single sentence that is hugely ambiguous. Find an actual source that says something. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 07:45, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Related article?

I've just come across The Iran lobby in the United States, an orphaned article which looks potentially quite problematic - I don't know much about the topic, but it reads fairly one-sided, and may not be appropriate for a Wikipedia article. (Apart from anything else, a contribution by a user called "Minitrue Propdep" is faintly alarming). Could someone with expertise take a look? If need be, it may need deleting, or partially merging into Iran – United States relations.

Thanks, Shimgray | talk | 10:28, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

no discussion of 2011 alleged Iran assassination plot??

Why is there no discussion at all of the 2011 alleged Iran assassination plot? Regardless of opinions about whether the plot was real or directed by the Iranian government, it has clearly had a significant effect on Iran-US relations.--75.83.69.196 (talk) 00:16, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

potential Further Reading

• January 2012 issue of Popular Mechanics by Adam Price (page 52 to 57), regarding Cyberwarfare in the United States. 99.181.132.91 (talk) 04:09, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

NYT resource

Iran Threatens to Block Oil Shipments, as U.S. Prepares Sanctions by David E. Sanger and Annie Lowrey, published New York Times December 27, 2011

99.190.86.5 (talk) 04:32, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

potential resources

• Time to Attack Iran; Why a Strike Is the Least Bad Option by Matthew Kroenig Foreign Affairs January/February 2012
• Obama's Counterproductive New Iran Sanctions; How Washington is Sliding Toward Regime Change by Suzanne Maloney Foreign Affairs January 5, 2012

See Economy of Iran and Iran lobby in the United States 99.19.44.155 (talk) 16:42, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

US and Turkey 'ready to strike Mid-East', says Russia by John Lyons for The Australian January 13, 2012 12:00AM 99.181.131.214 (talk) 00:59, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

nonsense

In April 2006, a blog called The Raw Story cited an unnamed UN source "close to" the UN Security Council, stating that the United States had used former MEK members as proxies in Iran for "roughly a year". The blog said that the proxies were made to "swear an oath to Democracy and resign from the MEK" before being incorporated into American military units and trained for their operations in Iran.[84]

swear an oath to democracy? an unamed source 'close to' the security counsel tells a blog writer. i bet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.166.62 (talk) 15:37, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

File:Teheran US embassy propaganda grasp unedited.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Rtnews template

I've removed the Russia Today news template from the page, as it had raised concern because it pointed to a single trending news page, rather than a selection of trend pages, and after discussion in the appropriate places, it's easier to remove it than it is to add lots of other trend pages, as I don't know of any (don't have time to look). If there are any comments, concerns, or suggestions please reply on my talkpage, as I don't watch this page. Penyulap ☏ 02:21, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Bias in the intro

The quote from Igor Korotchenko in the intro seems out of place and biased. So one guy thinks war is imminent, and specifically because of U.S. sanctions? The opinion reflects better poor Russian-U.S. relations than U.S.-Iran relations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.84.153.16 (talk) 03:16, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Robert Parry on Advance Knowledge of Iraqi Attack And POV Problems

Parry's claim to have found "an X-file" in "a remote Capitol Hill storage room" is utterly ridiculous. You might like to know that Parry has a long history of making such claims. "Robert Parry revealed on his investigative news website Consortium News that he had recently discovered, in an abandoned Capitol Hill bathroom in which Lee Hamilton's October Surprise Committee stored files, a Russian report that had been hand-delivered to the US Embassy in 1993 confirming that the October Surprise actually did occur." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise_conspiracy_theory#The_Consortium_News He claims to have broken into Capitol Hill dozens of times, finding the secret documents the MSM doesn't want you to know about! It sure is amazing that only he can find all of these incredible pieces of evidence with ease! Amazing that such documents had been left sitting on a bathroom floor for decades! Amazing that he keeps breaking into government buildings and never gets stopped! Amazing that all of the "documents" support his predetermined theories to a "T"! Nevertheless, his rantings remained here until I removed them. Don't get me wrong--there were several months of frequent cross-border attacks on Iraq by Iran and vice-versa prior to Iraq's formal declaration of war, and the U.S. did not intervene to stop the hostilities from escalating. But to say that the U.S. had secret knowledge of the date and time of the invasion, encouraged it, and planned it all out is outrageously POV and completely unsupported by any reliable source. I've not removed the claim altogether, as it is true that the Iranian government has made these allegations, but I've removed all references to Parry's work because he is not a reliable source on Wikipedia. He's no different than someone like Lawrence S. Cusack, who claimed to have proof that Kennedy was tied to mobster Sam Giancana and paid off Marilyn Monroe to keep quiet about their affair, but whose "proof" turned out to be completely fabricated.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 04:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

In addition, there's no reason for a random Russian pundit claiming that President Obama will soon attack Iran to be in the opening.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 04:05, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

My goodness, the writing in this article has very poor English, to the point where one might half-suspect Iranians wrote it. I've cleaned up a few sentences, but a great example is this imaginary quote from Haig. Even if it were legit, and Parry's site (essentially a blog) was also perfectly reliable; the wording in this article would still be inaccurate and misleading. The article claimed that Haig encouraged the Iraqi invasion; Parry claimed it was Carter. Thus, a Wikipedia editor, quoting a site quoting a blog quoting Parry, created a new conspiracy theory--that Haig green-lit the invasion--which could then be spread on the internet!TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 04:28, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Sourcing, sourcing, sourcing! Blogs are not acceptable on Wikipedia. Period. The blog post "Jimmy Carter's Illegal Demands on the Shah" has to go. Period.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 04:28, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Bias?

I have just started reading the article and intend to finish tonight, hopefully finding no more issues. However, when reading the introduction I had the impression of quite an unfair bias towards America and against Iran. For instance, it claims 'Iranian government's need for an external bogeyman to furnish a pretext for domestic repression against pro-democratic forces and to bind the government to its loyal constituency'. While a true statement the article goes on to state America's 'view' of Iran: 'American fears that Iran is developing nuclear weapons have been a major militating factor in relations since shortly after the revolution.' This view just totally disregards the U.S. governments' use of 'bogeymen' (such as Asians, the Soviet Union and 'Middle Eastern Terrorists' (in chronological order)) for domestic and international repression, and to bind other governments and companies to it's agenda for it's own benefit/profit. I just found it unfair to be honest. S-m-r-t (talk) 13:36, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Read the rest of it. I've found the article shows Iran's grievances against the USA to be quite legitimate, even as the POV rhetoric is, as you point out, slanted, against Iran. Mbarbier (talk) 13:04, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree, it has major POV issues. "Jimmy Carter emphasized human rights in his foreign policy" for example, or the inclusion of "it was geostrategic considerations, rather than a desire to destroy Mosaddeq's movement, to establish a dictatorship in Iran or to gain control over Iran's oil, that persuaded U.S. officials to undertake the coup." without any counterargument is very biased. InverseHypercube (talk) 04:22, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

The point of objectivity isn't to demonstrate that "Iran's greivances against the USA are legitimate." This article's bias self-evidently runs in the opposite direction of what you allege. It's fascinating that any comment mentioning the repression of the current Iranian regime is so outrageously offensive to these editors. The preceding lines refer to "American arrogance and desire for global hegemony," yet this is considered fine. The entire article quotes the most obscure fringe sources and proven liars, from Seymour Hersh to Gareth Porter, the former Pol Pot admirer. Carter did publicly emphasize human rights in his foreign policy. If you can find a credible source that says America's motive in 1953 was sheer love of dictatorship; then, by all means, feel free to add it. Obviously, no allegation against the US is too incredible to merit inclusion here, from planning a nuclear strike to having US troops secretly operate in Iran to Carter plotting the Iraqi invasion of 1980. We could mention the recent court case that found Iran guilty of sponsoring 9/11, or Khameini's declaration that "Israel is a cancerous tumor and it will be removed"--but that might make Iran look bad. Many of the sources in this article might fall under Wikipedia policy against using fringe viewpoints. Since Hersh said we were about to go to war, how much longer do we have to wait? Was President Obama offered a "Grand Bargain" as well? This article, even more than most Wikipedia articles, was written by far-left Chomskyites who would support Iran over the United States in a conflict, and many of whom regard Iran and the US as equally democratic. There's no way their collective efforts could be biased in favor of the US. Think about this: Gary Sick was a top Carter official. Sick believes that the US should have intervened against Saddam Hussein when he attacked Iran, that Israel is a greater threat to peace than Iran, and that the Iranians pose no threat to the US. Sick has revealed his true, extreme-left loyalties by spreading the October Surprise conspiracy theory and blaming Zbigniew Brzezinski for the failure to stop Iraq's invasion. Brzezinski, meanwhile, thinks that the US should attack Israel in the event that it goes to war with Iran. And Carter views Israel as a racist apartheid state. These are the types of people who make US policy. How can you expect anyone to believe that such policymakers are really aggressive expansionists hell-bent on war, like Hitler? But, then again, propagandists have already succeeded in convincing the public that Mossadegh's referendum to abolish the parliament, supreme court, and monarchy recieved a 99.9% favorable vote. And I'm sure many editors feel it would be biased not to assert that Israel is basically a racist apartheid state. To be "objective," we must paint Iran as a paragon of virtue and benevolence, and America and Israel as the source of all the evil in the world. I don't have any desire to alter this page, because I can handle the existence of other points of view, but this bizarre version of "objectivity" is amazing in terms of how profoundly subjective it truly is.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:22, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

"George W. Bush has claimed that his administration's goal in Iraq was to bring democracy to countries in the Middle East and to oppose islamofascism. The anti-Iraq War World Tribunal on Iraq and others doubted the sincerity of this motive, pointing to what they believe to be an American campaign against academia in Iraq. Robert Dreyfuss, author of Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam, stated that American actions in the region support islamofascism rather than oppose it.[116]"

What is this section even doing in the article? Was it put here by editors biased in favor of the US?TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:35, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

unreliable sources?

That was a pretty funny edit summary. The sources removed by Plot Spoiler (talk · contribs) include:

• U.S. Uses Drones to Probe Iran For Arms, February 13, 2005, Washington Post
• Kucinich Questions The President On US Trained Insurgents In Iran: Sends Letter To President Bush, Dennis Kucinich, April 18, 2006
• Hersh, Seymour The Coming Wars: What the Pentagon can now do in secret, The New Yorker

Next time dont be so obvious in your pov-pushing; these, and others, are so clearly reliable sources that it boggles the mind that you thought you could just edit-war them out. nableezy - 20:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Public opinion of the new Iran-US relation

Tweets and conservative pundits around the world are reacting: "Both Israeli lawmakers and conservative pundits have compared the deal over Iran’s nuclear program secured in Geneva this weekend with the Munich Agreement of 1938 in which European nations agreed to allow Nazi Germany to annex parts of Czechoslovakia. Of the deal, then British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain declared his infamous phrase, “Peace for our time.” A year later, Adolf Hitler invaded Poland, revealing the folly of Chamberlain and his allies’ appeasement policy." [3] . . . "Ben Shapiro of Breitbart believes the deal with Iran is “worse than Munich” in part because in 1938 Hitler had not made known his plans to exterminate European Jews while Iran has expressed a wish to wipe Israel from the map." [4] — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 16:44, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Secret US-Iran talks led to public talks

"... secret US-Iran talks laid groundwork for nuclear deal." [5] [6] — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 06:38, 25 November 2013 (UTC) PS: Where should this developing information go?

From the AP: "at least five secret meetings have occurred between top Obama administration and Iranian officials since March." Placement of this information could be before the last two sections, such as before the picture of Obama in September, before the section 'Reapprochement' (which may need to be reworded in light of the secret talks.) — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:09, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

On the other hand, I vote to leave the 'Reapprochement' section as it is now written and add the 'secret meetings' after that, since they comes to light after the interactions of President Obama and President Rouhani. Were their phone exchanges misleading on purpose? — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:18, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

FYI, here are the five other nations, plus US and Iran: "The last four clandestine meetings, held since Iran's reform-minded President Hassan Rouhani was inaugurated in August, produced much of the agreement later formally hammered out in negotiations in Geneva among the United States, Britain, France, Russia, China, Germany and Iran" [7].

The negotiating WP article/talk is at Geneva_interim_agreement_on_Iranian_nuclear_program — FYI, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 16:59, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

What about Iran-Contra Affair?

Certainly there should be some mention the Iran-Contra Affair? This is a pretty significant event in the relationship between Iran and the USA. Wikipedia's article on this is good. Also, I would be interested in some research about attempts to establish diplomatic relations in the past, who initiated these attempts, what the obstacles were. (See "Needs an Overview", below.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cc charles (talk • contribs) 14:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Rubbish

This article is the bottom of the barrel. THE most significant fact (in 2015) is the GLOBAL embargo on IRAN orchestrated by the US. Can't be found here. ANOTHER very important fact is IRAN's continued funding of a variety of terrorist organizations, some of which are directly responsible for killing US soldiers, as well as support for dictatorial regimes such as Syria's Assad.72.172.10.197 (talk) 17:31, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT. - Location (talk) 20:03, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

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Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• Down with usa mural.jpg
• The former US Embassy Tehran, Iran.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. Community Tech bot (talk) 19:37, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Ban on negotiations

Recent ban on the negotiations blown by Khamenei is a significant development covered by numerous reliable sources. This unprecedented incident in Iran–US relations is what the lead should contain. --Mhhossein ^talk 18:08, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Normative lead

For my own notes, I rewrote the lead in a normative, declarative style:

Iran–United States relations are conducted through the Iranian Interests Section of the Pakistani Embassy in Washington, D.C. and the U.S. Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy in Tehran. There are no formal diplomatic relations between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America. Pakistan serves as Iran's protecting power in the United States, while Switzerland serves as America's protecting power in Iran.

Starting articles with negative statements invariably leaves the reader feeling slightly rained on. I'm not sure this is to anyone else's taste, though, so I'll it at that. — MaxEnt 17:40, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Totally disagree. I want the verifiable facts.50.111.19.178 (talk) 00:01, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Split section

Propose to split the 2019 tensions section into 2019 Iran–United States crisis, retaining only the summary. The topic is highly notable [8], [9], [10], [11] and has wide coverage. Perhaps the only thing is that Britain and Gulf Cooperation Council (Saudi, UAE, Oman and Bahrain) are involved as well, so title might be different (maybe 2019 Gulf Crisis?).GreyShark (dibra) 15:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I prefer "2019 Persian Gulf Crisis" or something similar since it is now bigger than US vs Iran since the UK and Iran have seized each other's ships.RopeTricks (talk) 19:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

I would agree that that this issue spreads well beyond just the US and Iran so a title involving the Persian Gulf region or the greater Middle East would be more appropriate since US allies in the Arabian peninsula are involved, the UK and other nations are involved in the oil tanker crisis, and incidents in Iraq are possibly related to Iran aligned militias. Also more aggressive actions by the Houthi rebels are coinciding with the recent tensions and have been alleged to have been helped by Iran. Stormchaser89 (talk) 18:54, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm all for it. Persian Gulf crisis sounds about right. If there's no objections this should be done ASAP. It's quite frankly ridiculous that this doesn't have its own article yet. RM (Be my friend) 11:31, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I agree, there is a clear escalation in this.Mr.User200 (talk) 13:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

• Comment - it looks as a comprehensive agreement to split, which has already been executed by user:Z.graber into 2019 Persian Gulf crisis; I'm tweaking the split section into a summary to reduce content duplicity.GreyShark (dibra) 09:38, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Biased language

Specifically in the "Military satellite" subsection, I believe the tone of the writing is not objective and does not live up to Wiki standards. I think it needs editing to maintain objectivity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.172.22 (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Note - Mentioned on Portal:Current Events

Just making a note for article history. The article was mentioned on the Portal:Current events on January 5, 2020. Portal:Current events/2021 January 5. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:31, 5 January 2021 (UTC)