Talk:History of papal primacy
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Rector of the Whole World edit
Many Catholic apologist sites note that the emperors called the Pope rector of the whole church.
The claim (un-sourced) is repeated here. However I do note that on Catholic apologist sites they often cite 'Aubigné, J. H. M, (1857) History of the Reformation of the Sixteenth Century, Book 1, (Robert Carter & Brothers; NY)
HOWEVER what they don't note is the full quote from that source
"An edict of Theodosius III and of Valentinian III proclaimed the Bishop of Rome “Rector of the whole church.” Justinian published a similar decree. These edicts did not contain all that the popes pretended to see in them; but in those times of ignorance it was easy for them to secure that interpretation which was most favourable to themselves." d'Aubigné, J. H. M, (1857) History of the Reformation of the Sixteenth Century, Book 1, (Robert Carter & Brothers; NY), pp41-42.
This of course gives a very different perspective on the information. Thus I ask for a source in the article
—Montalban (talk) 04:24, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
- There is at least two English translation versions of d'Aubigné's 1835 Histoire de la réformation du seizième siècle. See d'Aubigné's 1835 original French pp. 9–10. See accurate (according to my comparison to the French) circa 1890 translation published by Ward, Lock p. 8, compare to earlier polemic translation above. There is no scare quotes in the French, or in the Ward, Lock translation, to indicate a nonstandard sense of the terms; the paragraph reads:
[...] an edict of Theodosius II., confirmed by Valentinian III., proclaimed the bishop of Rome rector of the whole church.† Justinian likewise published an ordinance of the same tendency. These decrees did not comprise, however, the full influence attributed to them by the popes. But while ignorance so widely prevailed, it was easy for these dignitaries to assume the interpretation most suitable to their own purposes. The domination of the emperors of Italy becoming always more precarious, the bishops of Rome knew how to profit by such opportunities for relieving themselves from every mark of uneasy dependance.
- By reading the surrounding paragraphs, it is clear that d'Aubigné commented more about how important and influential the civil decrees and laws were rather than on the epitaph rector totius ecclesiae. The 545 civil Byzantine law promulgated by Byzantine Emperor Justinian I is novel 131 of Novellae Constitutiones which codified that the archbishop of Constantinople "occupies the place next after the holy apostolic seat of ancient Rome".
- I agree that the decree of Theodosius II and Valentinian III should be fully cited. A Google search for "rector totius ecclesiae" shows mostly Latin works. Michael Wilks, in The problem of sovereignty in the later Middle Ages (1963) p. 28, quotes the phrase rector totius ecclesiae from Augustinus Triumphus's Summa de potestate ecclesiastica – so the phrase can be attributed in modern English language source to a 15th century printing and a writer who died in 1328. I'm sure more searching will reveal were to find it, possibly in the Codex Theodosianus. —BoBoMisiu (talk) 16:20, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Requested move 18 September 2018 edit
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 19:34, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
Historical development of the doctrine of papal primacy → History of papal primacy – More WP:CONCISE while still essentially retaining the same scope. Also per WP:CONSISTENCY with Papal primacy (rather than arguably more wordy "doctrine of papal primacy"). Chicbyaccident (talk) 15:59, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.