Talk:Good Shepherd

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Why is this considered a Parable? It isn't. it's a metaphor. there aren't any parables in John. if this is a metaphor, why aren't all the "I am" statements parables?

I agree completely that this title should be rehanged. I have at least two scholarly sources that do not consider this a parable:

Raymond Brown's Into to the NT "In the narrative sequence the metaphorical discourse on the good shepherd (10:1-21), although it has a certain autonomy, is directed to the Pharisees whom Jesus accused of being blind in 9:40-41. This and the description of the vine in 15"1-17 are the closest that John comes to the parables so common in the Synoptics. In John there is a mixture of metaphors offering different ways of looking at the same reality: Jesus is the gate by which the shepherd goes to the sheep, and by which the sheep come into the fold and go out to masturel and Jesus is the model shepherd who both knows his sheep by name and is willing to lay down his life for them." p.348 and he cites a work called "The Shepherd Discourse of John 10 and Its Context". Then on pages 364-5 "A comparison of the Fouth Gospel to the first three Gospels shows obvious differences. Peculiarities of John include: ... long discoursed and dialogues rather than parables". And Ehrman's NT "In John, however, Jesus does not speak in parables, nor does he proclaim the imminent appearance of the kingdom. He instead focuses his words on identifying himself as the one sent from God." p. 162

However, we should acknowledge in the article that it is sometimes called a parable, althought technically some scholars do not consider it such. Before I am too bold in moving this article, does anyone agree? Should we just move it back to where it was before, or do we have any better names?--Andrew c 18:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

You could call it Jesus the Good Shepherd, that's the name UBS uses for 10:7-21. The point is that it's not a parable about a Good Shepherd, John specifically claims that Jesus is the Good Shepherd.75.14.212.250 06:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know guys. According to what I've read, a parable is a metaphor in which something that is known is used to relate to something that is unknown. Isn't Jesus using something that is known, a shepherd, to relate to something not completely known, the nature of following him? Roy Brumback 10:57, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Catholic Encyclopedia: Parables: "There are no parables in St. John's Gospel."

a parable is not a metaphor 75.15.203.141 03:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

John 10:1–5 is potentially a stand-alone parable of Jesus, which UBS calls "Parable of the Sheepfold", John 10:6 calls it a "figure of speach", Strong's G3942, however, John 10:7 states I am the gate, which makes it a metaphor. 75.15.206.108 19:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Regardless if we personally think that a metaphor and a parable are the same thing, we have scholarly dispute over this. NPOV says we cannot take sides on a matter, especially when two very prominent biblical scholars, in their college level introductory texts on the NT say the same thing. I propose moving this article back to where it originally was, The Good Shepherd (religion), and if necessary have a few sentences explaining the conflict. Maybe someone could dig up some reliable sources that explain how these verses are a parable, because I've got sources for the other side. Is there any reason not to move this article?--Andrew c 15:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it should move, it is not a parable. 75.14.215.71 18:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

What does this sentence mean

What does this sentence mean:

In the surrounding context of the allegorical story of the Good Shepherd (John 9:35-41 and John 10:22-30) depicts the people around Jesus realized that he was asserting that he was God.

It reads like it's grammatically incorrect.

Arnob 01:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Parable?

"This story is commonly called a parable" by whom? I have never heard it called a parable. This sentence and the relevant heading should be changed.

An Idea Stolen From the Greeks

This article is massively inadequate and misrepresentative. As the following Wiki article explains, the idea of a god as shepherd existed CENTURIES before Jesus -- most commonly in the form of Hermes carrying a lamb around his neck. In art, such depictions are known as the Kriphoroi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriophoros#Kriophoroi_and_.22The_Good_Shepherd.22 76.113.64.124 (talk) 14:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I think that is alluded to in the Pagan symbolism section, if you have reliable sources then it would be great if you added to that section with explicit reference to how prior iconography/myths had an influence on the christian myth GrassHopHer (talk) 21:27, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

It is clearly covered in the art section too. But since the ram (not lamb) carried by at least the early Kriophoros figures was to be sacrificed not protected, the idea is not not really the same. Johnbod (talk) 01:50, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

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