Talk:Fortifications of Frankfurt

Translator's notes

• All red links were originally intentional, but if the topic isn't clearly notable on the English Wikipedia, feel free to remove them.
• Translator's notes can and should eventually be removed, ideally by someone whose native language is English.

Thank you very much!

~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:50, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

		The Rosetta Barnstar
		message Kaiser Kitkat (talk) 21:20, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to award this properly, but I believe you did a good job translating and would like to award the translator this barnstar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaiser Kitkat (talk • contribs) 21:20, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Good translation imho, though I have noticed the references are still in German. BegbertBiggs (talk) 23:08, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

• There are still a lot of issues with this translation. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:25, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Copy edit

Kudpung, ToBeFree, Kaiser Kitkat and other interested editors. A magnificent job of translation, but, as Kudpung notes, still work to be done on it.

• I am hoping to copy edit this over the next week or so.
• Given the circumstances I intend to be bolder than might be normal for a copy edit. So please feel free to revert anything you're not happy with or to flag up here any queries or complaints.
• I intend to copy edit in/into standard British English (not US). If anyone objects, could they let me know.
• I will be looking to slim down both the text and the images quite a bit. Again, please let me know if anything I do makes you unhappy.
• I tend to have several sweeps through an article; so my having done work on a section does not necessarily indicate that I consider it "finished".
• I will, no doubt, come across queries and issues beyond mere copy editing; in which case I will post them here for your consideration.

Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:21, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

May I ask why you plan to change the article to British English? Kaiser Kitkat (talk) 15:38, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

It wasn't tagged as being in any variant, a brief skim suggested a mix of variants and I feel marginally more comfortable with British English. If it was supposed to be US English or Oxford English, or if there is consensus for it to be, feel free to change the indicator accordingly and I will edit to that variant. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:41, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

I understand, This is reasonable. I wish you well on completing this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaiser Kitkat (talk • contribs) 17:10, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Oh, bold copyediting would be wonderful. I do not object to any variant of English, especially not if it will be consistent throughout the article. I often mix British and US-American spelling without noticing. Thank you very much for your offer; I'll be available for questions but may need pings to notice them. It seems to be reasonable to remove unnecessary detail, erring on the side of removal or splitting. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:26, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

Apologies for the delay here. Things have become a bit busy recently. I am aware of this and will get back to it soon. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:57, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

No Need for apologies, I'd say; the article is developing well. Re English variants, I can't see any coherent argument for this being in US English, while there is a strong rationale for using European English given that modern-day Frankfurt is part of Germany, one of the leading members of the EU - which employs European English as one of its main official languages. For most intents and purposes, this one included, that does look and function much like British English, even if the justification for use is slightly different. If it causes any particular concerns the top tag could amended to the simpler 'EngVar B', but I doubt it would add value to engage in a long debate about it. Perry Pat Etic Poleaxe (talk) 14:35, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

I didn't know "European English" is a term. It seems to fit perfectly, though. Thanks for adding the tag. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:10, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Queries

• "statues of Bartholomew the Apostle and Charlemagne stood between a Reichsadler which stood on a lion." The statues can't be between "a" reichsadler. I assume that there was a statue on each side of a single reichsadler; is this correct? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:13, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

  Oh, good catch. The logical error is already present in the German original article. I have found a copy of the book at http://publikationen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/frontdoor/index/index/year/2008/docId/16071 and verified that the source says "nebst", which I have now backported to dewiki as "neben", which means "next to". Whether they stood "either side", well... now that I think about it, only "next to" is verified, but it is safe to assume that "either side" is correct. Thanks for already having implemented the correction on enwiki. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:07, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

• "the torture chamber of the Katharinenpforte was moved to this tower in 1963" Is that date correct? Gog the Mild (talk) 15:42, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

  Oh god, what a silly typo I made there. It's 1693, off by 270 years. I'm sorry. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:07, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

I have ordered a physical copy of the 1898 book "Die Baudenkmäler in Frankfurt am Main, Band 2: Weltliche Bauten" by Carl Wolff and Rudolf Jung now, as the topic is interesting and it seems to be the backbone of the article. Feel free to ask for further corrections/verifications. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:07, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Fertig

Hi ToBeFree: I think that I am done here. I could keep going through, but the law of diminishing returns will set in. That said, if you want to have a shot at GAN, give me a shout. Once you have that book and can sort the referencing out it should be a shoo in. I think that you need to read through carefully checking for where I have inadvertently mangled the meaning or removed something which seemed non-notable to me, but which is actually important. And no doubt tidying up various bits and pieces which I am lazily leaving. Happy editing. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:54, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

(Just saying, I have not forgotten the offer, and I have the physical book, sadly of lower quality than the PDF version, next to my desk. It may take a long while until I dive into this project again, though. The complete lack of a deadline, compared to other projects, currently makes me avoid the step. One day. One day.) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:05, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Fortifications of Frankurt

@ToBeFree, Perry Pat Etic Poleaxe, Kaiser Kitkat, BegbertBiggs, and Kudpung: Grammatically, the article title is missing an "s". See similarly titled articles. So I am proposing to move it. Is there a consensus for this? Gog the Mild (talk) 16:16, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Hey Gog the Mild, thank you very much for the extensive work. I was unsure about the title; the German title "Frankfurter Stadtbefestigung" is ambiguous. It could refer to the process of fortifying something, or the resulting fortification(s). I had originally interpreted it as the former, but the latter may well be more applicable. Feel free to move the page, especially if similarly titled articles use the plural form too. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

No, thank you for the superb translation. And I have not had the benefit of translator's notes before, very helpful. I am still working, and will let you know when I am "finished". (Apologies that I am taking so long.) There are a couple of queries above which you may be able to answer.

As I see it, this is an article about the fortifications, not the process of fortifying. Hence the "s". Gog the Mild (talk) 17:21, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Yup, I'd even move the article right now, but I'll wait a day or two to see if the pinged users object. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:18, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Move it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:12, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Done. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:31, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm happy with this change, as the article primarily refers to the physical structures built, i.e the fortifications. If the article was largely about the process of building them, fortification would be the appropriate term. Good challenge, Gog! Perry Pat Etic Poleaxe (talk) 13:04, 1 December 2019 (UTC)