Talk:Fleetwood (baronial family)

Conflicting sources

There seems to be some dispute between the sources.

• Dictionary of National Biography "Fleetwood, George. Volume xix pp. 265,266

• John Burke, A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland Enjoying Territorial Possessions Or High Official Rank: But Uninvested with Heritable Honours, Volume 4, Colburn, 1838. p. 522
• John Burke in A genealogical and heraldic history of the extinct and dormant baronetcies, repeats his tree in p. 200

The DNB claims George Fleetwood the regicide was the son of a George Fleetwood with two dead elder brothers Edward and Charles.

Burke presents a family list and claims that Sir William, father to four brothers Miles, William, George, and Charles. Which makes George Fleetwood the regicide bother of the Parliamentary General Charles Fleetwood.

In Burke George the Swedish General is a brother of Sir William (if I read the indentations correctly), making him an uncle of George Fleetwood the regicide bother of the Parliamentary General Charles Fleetwood.

It would be useful if someone else could look into this and see if I have missed something and in fact there is no conflict in the sources. --PBS (talk) 12:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

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text from Burke;s "A Genealogical and Heraldic History" (highlighting by PBS)

John, of Penwortham, in Lancashire, who m. Joan, daughter and coheir of Thomas Langton, baron of Walton, and was father of John Fleetwood, of Little Plumpton in Lancashire, living in the time of Edward III. was grandfather of Edmund Fleetwood, of Hesketh, in Lancashire, living temp. Edward IV. who m. Elizabeth, daughter of Robert of Roger Holland, esq of Downholme, and was s. by his son, William Fleetwood, esq. of Hesketh, who m. Helen, dau. of Robert Standish, and had four sons and two daughters, namley, i. Thomas, lord of Walton and Newton, whose son, by Mary, his wife, daughter, of Sir Richard Sherburne, of Stoneyhurst, was Sir Richard Fleetwood, of Calwich, in Staffordshire, a devoted adherent to the royal cause during the civil war. He was created a Baronet by James I. and the title remained with his descendants for several generations. (See Burke's Extinct Baronetage.) ii. Thomas, of whom presently. iii. Robert, of Penwortham, whose descendants were also royalists during the civil war. John Fleetwood, esq. of Penwortham, was fined £641.3s.4d. for his attachment to Charles I. and the name of his son, Edward, appears among those selected for the knighthood of the Royal Oak. iv. Edmund a monk at Sion. i. Agnes, m. to John Gillebrand, esq. of Chorley, in Lancashire. ii. Janet, m. to John Blackledge, esq.of Leylaud, in Lancashire. The second son, Thomas Fleetwood, esq. was born at his father's seat of Hesketh, but purchasing the Manor of the Vache, in Buckinghamshire, he settled there. This gentleman was treasurer of the Royal Mint in Southwark, surveyor of the possessions of Edward VI. in Cheshire, member for Bucks, 5 Elizabeth ; and also sheriff of that county as well as of Bedfordshire. He m. first, Barbara, cousin and heir of Andrew Frances, of London ; and secondly, Bridget,(She married secondly, Sir Robert Wingfield, [ocr-error]t. of Letheringham.) daughter of Sir John Spring, knt. of Lavenham, in Suffolk: of his children, George (Sir), was seated at the Vache, and represented Chipping Wycomb 28 Elizabeth. He received the honour of knighthood from James I. at the Charter House, llth May, 1603, and rf. 21st December, 1620. He m. Catherine, daughter of Sir Henry Denny, of Cheshunt, Herts, and had a numerous family. William (Sir), was seated at Cranford,in Northamptonshire. He received the honour of knighthood and was appointed receiver of the Court of Wards. Sir William m. Joan, sister of Gervase, Lord Clifton, and relict of — Coplestone, esq. and had issue, Miles (Sir), knt. of Aldwinckle, in Northamptonshire, also receiver of the Court of Wards, and member for Hindon, Wilts, in the long parliament. By Anne, his wife, he left Sir George Fleetwood, knighted by Charles I. in 1632, and several other children. Gervase (Sir), knt. of Crowley, in Northamptonshire, M. P. for Chipping Wycomb 4 James I. Thomas. John (Sir), knt. also M. P. for Chipping Wycomb 4 James I. William (Sir), knt. of Aldwincle and Woodstock, cupbearer to James I. and Charles I. Sir William was member for Woodstock in the long parliament, and a faithful adherent of the unhappy king. He died after the Restoration, leaving, with other issue, Miles (Sir), knt. of Aldwincle. William, colonel in the army. George Fleetwood (regicide) [(1623 - circa 1672)], colonel in the parliaments service, one of King Charles's judges, and a lord of Oliver Cromwell's other house. Charles Fleetwood [(c. 1618 – 4 October 1692)], the celebrated General Fleetwood, lord lieuteuant of Ireland under the Protectorate. This distinguished person m. the widow of General Ireton, Oliver Cromwell's daughter. George Fleetwood (Swedish general) [(1605-1667)], preeminently distinguished in the service of Gustavus Adolphus, of Sweden, by whom he was created a baron of that kingdom. James, was a learned divine, and a most zealous and devoted royalist. After the restoration he was consecrated Bishop of Worcester. His lordship d. 17th July, 1683, aged eighty-one, leaving issue. Henry, was seated at Lpngby, Bucks. Edmund, was of Rossall, in Lancashire ; of his descendants we have to treat. Bridget, m. Sir William Smith, knt. of Hill Hall. Joyce, m. first, Sir Hewet Osborne, knt. ancestor of the Dukes of Leeds ; and secondly, Sir Peter Frechville, knt. of Stavely. The youngest son, Edmund Fleetwood, esq. of Rossall, in Lancashire, living in 1613, m. Elizabeth, daughter of John Cheney, esq. of Cheshani Boys, Bucks, and had issue, i. Paul (Sir), his heir. ii. Edmund, who m. Elizabeth, dau. of George Tempest, esq. of Yorkshire, iii. Henry, of Wesham. iv. Robert, of Wesham. v. Edward, of Kirkham, in holy orders, i. Bridget, m. to Richard Burgh, of Lar brick. ii. Elizabeth, in. to Sir George Philpot, of Hants, iii. Anne, m. to Robert Butler, esq. of Rawcliffe. iv. Barbara, m. to Richard Newsom, esq. of Plumpton. v. Joyce. Edmund Fleetwood died about 1624, and was s. by his son, Sir Paul Fleetwood, knt of Rossall, who To. Jane, daughter of Richard Argall, esq. of Kent, and had three sous and two daughters, viz. i. Edmund, of Rossall, who m. Everell, dau. of Thomas Heber, esq. of Marton, in Yorkshire, and d. about 1644, leaving five daughters, viz. Mary, m. to William Worthington, esq. of Snidall. Elizabeth, m. to Thomas Butler, esq. of Kirkland. Jaue, in. to John Singleton, esq. of Stayning. Anne. Catherine. ii Richard, of Rossall, aged forty-five in 1664, m. Anne, daughter of Thomas Mayo, esq. of Beyford Place, Herts, and had a son and daughter, Paul, b. in 1664. Margaret. iii. Francis, of whom presently. i. Elizabeth, m. to Patrick Grogan, of the kingdom of Ireland, ii. Mary, m. to Robert Shaw, esq. of High Bullock, Lancashire. The third son, Francis Fleetwood, esq. of Hackensall, m. Mary, daughter of Charles Foster, of Preesal, and had, with a daughter, Elizabeth, a son and successor, Richard Fleetwood, esq. aged eleven in 1664, who m. 16th June, 1674, Margaret, daughter and heir of Edward Fleetwood, esq. of Leyland, in Lancashire, and dying 1709, was s. by his son, Edward Fleetwood, esq. of Rossall, b. 13th January, 1682, who m. Sarah, daughter of John Veal, esq. of Whinney Heyes, in Lancashire, and left at his decease, a daughter and co-heiress, Margaret Fleetwood, baptized at Poulton, Lancashire, 5th April, 1715, who m. at Bispham, 16th September, 1733, Roger Hesketh , esq. of North Meols, (a descendant of a younger branch of the Hcskeths of Rufford,) who served the office of sheriff of Lancashire, and had issue, Fleetwood, his heir. Sarah, b. 11th January, 1741, m. in 1758, to Bennet Williams, esq. of Boddlewydan, in Flintshire, and d. 18th August, 1824, leaving issue. The heiress of Fleetwood died 18th July, 1752, and was s. by her son, Fleetwood Hesketh, esq. of Rossall, 4. 1st July, 1738, who m. at Prescot, 13th September, 1759, Frances, third daughter of Peter Bold, esq. of Bold Hall, in Lancashire, and by her, who d. 9th August, 1809, aged seventy-four, had issue, Bold-fleetwood, his heir. Robert, successor to his brother. Anna-Maria. Frances-Margaret, d. young in 1767. Mr. Hesketh d. at Woore, in Staffordshire, in April, 1769, and was s. by his son, Bold-fleetwood Hesketh, esq. of Rossall, b. 29th April, 1762, n deputy lieutenant for Lancashire, and its high sheriff, who d. unm. 2nd July, 1819, and was s. by his brother, Robert Hesketh, esq. of Rossall, b. 18th April, 1764, who was sheriff for Lancashire. He m. at Lancaster, 11th September, 1790, Maria, eldest daughter of Henry Rawlinson, esq. of Lancaster, M.P. for Liverpool, and by her, who rf. 3rd July, 1824, had issue, Edward-Thomas, b. 21st August, 1796, d. unm. 1st July, 1820. Robert-Fleetwood, b. 18th April, 1798, d. unm. 15th January, 1817. Peter, heir to his father. Charles, in holy orders, 6. 15th March, 1804, m. 21st February, 1828, Anna-Maria-Alice, daughter of Richard Saunders, esq. Anna-Maria-Martha, m. 17th September, 1828, to Thomas-John Knowlys, esq. of Heysham Hall, Lancashire. Mr. Hesketh died 22nd March, 1824, and was s. by his son, the present Robert-Hesketh Fleetwood, esq. of Rossall Hall. FLEETWOOD-HESKETH, PETER, esq. of Rossall, in the county of Lancaster, b. 9th May, 1801, m. 8th June, 1826, Eliza-Debonnaire, only child of Sir Theophilus John Metcalfe, bart. of Fern Hill, Berkshire, and by that lady, who d. 19th January, 1833, has an only surviving child, Anna-marta-fleetwood. Mr. Hesketh, who succeeded his father 22nd March, 1824, and assumed the additional surname of Fleetwood in 1831, is a magistrate and deputy lieutenant for Lancashire, and served as sheriff for that county in 1830. He has represented Preston in parliament since 1832. Arms—Quarterly: 1st and 4th, per pale nebulee az. and or, six martlets 2, 2, 2, counter changed : a canton arg. for FleetWood ; 2nd and 3rd, arg. on a bend sa. three garbs or, a chief az. thereon an eagle with two heads displayed ppr. all within a bordure erminois. Crests—For Fleetwood, a wolf passant reguardant arg. charged on the breast with a trefoil vert. For Hesketh, a mount vert, thereon in front of an eagle with two heads displayed ppr. a garb or, banded gu. Motto—Quod tibi hoc alteri. Estates—Rossall, North Meols, (including one half of the large and fashionable watering place of Southport,) Tulketh Hall, Heysham, and Whinney Heys, in Lancashire, and Hill House, Berkshire. Seat—Rossall Hall, Lancashire. References Notes

It is noticeable that if the date of births are correct (included from the DNB), then John Burke's ordering of the brothers is incorrect as Charles was born before George the Regicide.

As described in the DNB

Thomas Fleetwood I.George (Sir), was seated at the Vache I.I Edward (died young) I.II Charles (died young) I.III George Fleetwood (regicide) [(1623 - circa 1672)], colonel in the parliaments service, one of King Charles's judges, and a lord of Oliver Cromwell's other house. II. William (Sir),not mentioned in the DNB articles on Charles or George II.I. Miles (Sir), knt. of Cranford and Aldwinkle II.I.I William (Sir),? There was a first son but he is not named the DNB articles II.I.IIGeorge Fleetwood (Swedish general) [(1605-1667)], preeminently distinguished in the service of Gustavus Adolphus, of Sweden, by whom he was created a baron of that kingdom. II.I.III Charles Fleetwood [(c. 1618 – 4 October 1692)], the celebrated General Fleetwood, lord lieuteuant of Ireland under the Protectorate. This distinguished person m. the widow of General Ireton, Oliver Cromwell's daughter.

Using a different source (Fleetwood Pedigree -- not a reliable source but one based on a reliable source: Fleetwood Family Records by R. W. Buss) that agrees with the DNB apart from George Fleetwood (regicide) is the son of Charles not his brother:

Fleetwood Family Records derived from R. W. Buss
Thomas Fleetwood m. Bridget Spring I Sir William Fleetwood I.I Sir Miles Fleetwood of Aldwincle I.I.I Willian Fleetwood I.I.II George Fleetwood (Swedish general) I.I.III Charles Fleetwood (Royalist general) I.II Sir Gerrard Fleetwood of Crawley (left issue) II Sir George Fleetwood Charles Fleetwood d. 1628 George Fleetwood regicide.

A search of Google books on [sir William Fleetwood cup bearer] returns lots of 19th century sources (such as this one which support John Burke and state that Charles Fleetwood was the son of this man. But as the the the Vache was forfeited by George the Regicide, the DNB makes more sense. So what do others think? -- PBS (talk) 12:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

ODNB input

Fair use justification: Minimal copyright text posted for the purposes of research into this question:

• Fleetwood, George, appointed Lord Fleetwood under the protectorate (bap. 1623, d. in or after 1664), army officer and regicide, was the eldest son of Charles Fleetwood (d. 1628) of The Vache, Chalfont St Giles, Buckinghamshire - http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/9685?docPos=2

• Fleetwood, George [created Sir George Fleetwood under the protectorate], Baron Fleetwood in the Swedish nobility (bap. 1605, d. 1667), army officer in the Swedish service, ... was the second son of Sir Miles Fleetwood (d. 1641) of Cranford and Aldwincle, Northamptonshire and his wife, Anne Luke (b. 1578). His younger brother Charles Fleetwood, the parliamentarian general, married Oliver Cromwell's eldest daughter, Bridget. George's second cousin, also George Fleetwood, was a regicide and a parliamentarian colonel. - http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/9686?docPos=1

--Tagishsimon (talk) 13:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

So it seems that if we use the ODNB, a 21st century source, it does not contradict R. W. Buss and only makes one alteration to the relationships in the DNB, that George the regicide was the grandson of George Fleetwood with Charles (d. 1628) as his father rather than being the son of George Fleetwood. --PBS (talk) 15:12, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Seems sensible. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:36, 13 November 2009 (UTC)