Talk:Ettore Bugatti

Alsace in 1909

There seems to be some confusion about where the Alsace belonged to in 1909 (see version history). Let me quote the Wiki article on that matter:

"The end of the war led to the unification of Germany. Otto von Bismarck annexed Alsace and northern Lorraine to the new German Empire in 1871."

This status remained intact until the end of WWI.

--93.132.177.226 (talk) 23:01, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

WP is never WP:RS

Also (and even Wikipedia gets this right) Alsace never had the same status within Germany as other regions did but was, in deliberate deference to Francophone sensibilities there, it was a particular Imperial territory, under the dominion of the Kaiser, but not part of greater Germany.

In addition, this is not an article about Germany, it's an article about Bugatti. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:04, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

As you can see, the old version claimed that it was part of France, which is obviously incorrect, so, I hope we can both agree, that taking that statement out was an improvement. The point that the Alsace had a different status in the German Empire than the others states is true, but I don't see why that should matter. It was part of the German Empire, and while this is not an article about Germany, certainly it should get the facts about where Mr. Bugatti founded his enterprise straight.

--93.132.177.226 (talk) 23:12, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

After WWI the Alsace was occupied by Germany, indeed. But Bugatti founded his company in France, that is to say in a region where the dominant culture at the time was French. Bugatti never felt a special fondness for Germany, he just happened to work there (Deutz among other firms), but when he established his own firm, he was happy it was in a region that had a French culture. I don't think it's of any importance to underline what side of the occupation-line the region was in, but for the history of the marque Bugatti and for the understanding of Ettore Bugatti it is important to state what side the Alsace belonged to culturally. Information to be found in the book "Bugatti - The Man and The Marque" by Jonathan Wood (1992, ISBN 978 1 85223 364 8). Mark in wiki (talk) 10:20, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

The Alsace at the time was not "occupied" by Germany, it was quite simply a part of it. Everything else you mentioned is not relevant to the matter in which country Bugatti was founded. And whether the culture in the Alsace of 1909 was dominantly French is rather dubitable, but again it's not relevant.

--93.132.160.132 (talk) 13:28, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Alsace was _not_ part of Germany at this time, it was an Imperial territory. AIUI, its status had more in common with German East Africa than with Bavaria. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:33, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Reference

As I read references, I noticed "Automobilia, No 4..." etc. Searching for the issue I found here that the actual issue that includes Paris Salon 1946 is Automobilia No 5, September 1996. I think this needs more searching. --Ttzavaras (talk) 23:10, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

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MOS:ETHNICITY

@Andy Dingley: - per MOS:ETHNICITY - "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.". In diff, you entered "Italian-born French" into the lead. Most of Bugatti's professional career and his notability arises from his professional activities in Molsheim, France. He died in Paris. His early life in Italy has no bearing on his notability. Please provide a justification for this edit. Icewhiz (talk) 16:04, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Look at the history of the Bugatti family. Precisely per MOS:ETHNICITY, this is relevant. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:29, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Have you even heard of Bugatti before, or is this just part of your massive automated run to strip links on the basis of half a policy? Andy Dingley (talk) 16:31, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Bugatti was a French car manufacturer. Our subject's family is mentioned in the body ("Family origin and early life") - but it has no bearing on his notability per WP:NOTINHERITED. Bugatti worked outside of Italy, and Italy has no bearing on his notability. Thus - MOS:ETHNICITY rather clearly excludes this designation in the lead. Icewhiz (talk) 16:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC)