Talk:Eric Clapton/Archive 5

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Semi-protection

This article has been semi-protected. Semi-protection prevents edits from unregistered users (IP addresses), as well as edits from any account that is not autoconfirmed (is at least four days old and has at least ten edits to Wikipedia) or confirmed. Such users can request edits to this article by proposing them on this talk page, using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template if necessary to gain attention. New users may also request the confirmed user right by visiting Requests for permissions. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 11:01, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

The article has numerous errors unfortunately. Clapton did not Start with a Stratocaster untilll 1970 and even Then he used the Gibson les Paul quite a lot. He came back 1973 after a 3 year heroin addiction and played a les Paul. In 1974 he toured with a Gibson Firebirds. He also used the Telecaster a lot more than mentioned here.He used it as his main guitar for 2 years ( Yardbirds and 6 months in John Mayal Bluesbreakers). He came back to the Telecaster in 1969. In the 70 ties and 80 ties he used it quite a lot both live and in the studio. Do a Google Search for Clapton + Telecaster anf you find thousands of pictures. After the millenium he got back to the Telecaster for Studio work. There was a tour of Japan in both 74 and 75 were the Telecaster was his main guitar. Peter7777ab (talk) 19:03, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Tears in Heaven Inspiration

This article includes several unsourced mentions of the claim that Tears in Heaven was specifically written for, or inspired by, the death of Clapton's son.

To my knowledge, this is not strictly correct. The song was not written for anything or anyone specifically but ended up being part of the Rush film soundtrack. It is only after it was written that Clapton says some meaning regarding Conor could be assigned to it.

Clapton did an interview with Sue Lawley in 1992 where he elaborates on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmmBynDJzWw&t=1035

It's a nice idea that the song was written specifically for or inspired by his sons tragic death, but I cannot find any reliable source for this. It seems more like an urban legend.

What do others think?

LoveEverybodyUnconditionally (talk) 19:42, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I pretty easily found sources (doing a library search) confirming that the song was written for his son, so I'll add them to the article. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 19:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks - is there a way I can read/access your journal source online? I would be very interested to see what it says. LoveEverybodyUnconditionally (talk) 19:59, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Neither of these is available online but if you email me using the "email this user" function, I'd be happy to reply with PDF copies of the articles from the library. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 20:03, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much for emailing those to me, I really appreciate it. However, I am not entirely convinced by them...

Regarding the “His Saddest Song” article, I cannot find anything here where Clapton says the song was written for, or inspired by, his sons death. The quote in the second paragraph (“so obviously about the son that he'd lost”) is the only reference to the songs origin in this article, and it is just someone else's own interpretation. I don’t think it can be regarded as a source that the song was written by Clapton for Conor.

And regarding the other article (Annonymous, Rolling Stone, 2000), it simply states the following as fact:

“Clapton wrote the song for his four-year-old son, Conor, who died in a fall from the window of a New York high-rise in March 1991.”

The Sue Lawley interview that I linked to on YouTube would contradict this, and the words are coming straight out of Clapton’s own mouth in 1992 (just a year after Conor’s death), as opposed to an anonymous journalists writings 9 years after the event.

I would be interested to hear your views.

LoveEverybodyUnconditionally (talk) 20:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

You have a good point; it may be one of those things where a couple of journalists latched on to something he said and it spiraled into being repeated by other journalists. I'm not sure either way. I'd defer to what Clapton says if I had to choose what we should be reporting. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 19:10, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree. I don't particularly have any issue with saying things like "Clapton expressed his grief through the song", as that is most likely true, given the period it was written (although, it's not very encyclopedic). However, to explicitly claim the song was inspired by or written for Conor is inaccurate and should be removed from the article, in my opinion. The fact is that it was written for the Rush soundtrack, even though the lyrics perfectly apply to Conor's passing as well. Does anyone object to removing such claims from the article? LoveEverybodyUnconditionally (talk) 01:05, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Life in Twelve Bars

Isn't Eric Clapton going to be in a film could "Life in Twelve Bars"? If anybody knows about this, it could go in the article. Vorbee (talk) 08:53, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Yep, I added it a few days ago :) LoveEverybodyUnconditionally (talk) 22:37, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

When did he learn of true parentage?

I just learned of "big sister is really his mother" (not the exact words) elsewhere, and remembered reading that about Bobby Darin learning such as adult. Did Clapton learn this at around age 9? Carlm0404 (talk) 06:01, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2020

ADD TO: Personal Life / Political views and controversy.

On December 18, 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic, Eric Clapton and Van Morrison released the anti-mask song "Stand and Deliver". It was written by Morrison and sung by Clapton, and included lyrics like "Do you wanna be a free man / Or do you wanna be a slave? / Do you wanna wear these chains / Until you're lying in the grave?"

Ajdedo (talk) 02:21, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Melmann 11:24, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Oh, I didn’t see this at first because the section title is misleading. In any case, of course Clapton’s behavior here is controversial. He is deliberately courting controversy, and he certainly achieved it. “Establish consensus”? Who is opposed, and for what reasons? Please state your actual case. TheScotch (talk) 15:23, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

References

Controversy

Information about Clapton’s collaboration with Van Morrison on the blatantly Covid-conspiracy-mongering record “Stand and Deliver” needs to be moved to the “Controversy” section of this article. TheScotch (talk) 18:24, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Source for David Bowie’s “remarks” vague and uncertain.

In the section about Clapton’s personal life there is a mention of David Bowie having controversial remarks:

This incident, along with some controversial remarks made around the same time by David Bowie,^[193]

There is no mention of which these remarks were. And when you check the source (http://www.theweek.co.uk/people/37315/night-eric-wasn%E2%80%99t-so-wonderful) it is really vague about what happened. There is no direct quotation, no source, just mention that David Bowie said something about something. I find this a little suspicious.

Rúnar Berg (talk) 15:51, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Fender Telecaster

A guitar that does not get the exposure it should is the Telecaster. That was Erics main huggning and recording guitar in Yardbirds. That was a borrowed guitar he played for 18 months. He Then moved on to John Mayall Bluesbreakers with another Telecaster, which he played 6 months with the Blues Breakers before getting his Gibson Les Paul. He Then again went back to the Telecaster in 1969 with Blind Faith. And the Telecaster was used frequently in the 70 ties and 80 ties both in concert and studio. After the Millenium he again used the Telecaster to record. Have a look at Google and : clapton + Telecaster and you get thousands of pics with Clapton playing the Telecaster. Peter7777ab (talk) 18:49, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Clapton is God

The article said: "The phrase was spray-painted [...] on a wall in an Islington Underground station [...]". A quick image search reveals what looks much more like a temporary construction fence on Arvon Road. [1] Until anyone has more detailed information I'm throwing out the "Underground station" bit. --BjKa (talk) 10:33, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't know where it first appeared, but 'Clapton is God' was graffitied all over London - not just one specific location. The image you found may well be one of the other locations, as opposed to the first. Interestingly, Clapton has said he believes it could have been a PR stunt arranged by his management/promoter at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LoveEverybodyUnconditionally (talk • contribs) 19:51, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

It came from around the time he played his Fender Telecaster and changed Strings. Clapton did not start with Stratocasters Untill 1970 and even Then he used a lot of Les Pauls. He came back 1973 after a Heroin addiction playing a Les Paul. In 1974 he toured with a Gibson Firebirds. In 1975 he used the Telecaster quite a lot. In 83 he did a whole tour with the Gibson Les Paul. Peter7777ab (talk) 18:54, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Political views and controversy edit request

In the Political views and controversy section of this article, please add the reference to the Washington Times for this section and you will find the Washington Times reference below:

The construction "stand and deliver" means to "to give what is demanded" and was originally used by highwaymen robbing passengers. The song ends with the observation that notorious highway robber "Dick Turpin wore a mask too" and includes the couplet: “You let them put the fear in you/But none of it was true.” Clapton announced that, “There are many of us who support Van and his efforts to save live music. He is an inspiration. We must stand up and be counted because we need to find a way out of this mess.”[citation needed]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/dec/18/eric-clapton-van-morrison-release-anti-lockdown-so/ Eric Carpenter (talk) 03:09, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

 Partly done: That Washington Times article actually cites a Variety article as a source, so I've cited the Variety article instead. Living Concrete (talk) 03:39, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Controversy section

The Political views and controversy section, as it stands now, includes an entire block quote of what Clapton allegedly said during that concert, with two sources cited. But how do we know he said all that? From what I've noticed:

1) Neither source has the entire quote mentioned, just some fraction thereof.

2) According to what appears to be John Street, the author of the book Rebel Rock (often cited as a source for the full quote): "It is in all probability a fake. Certainly it does not appear in the alleged source."

I know this is a highly contentious part of this article, but I'm sure proper citation is still necessary to warrant the entire block quote. If that can't be done, just shorten it to what can be verified. 2601:191:200:6E40:501A:5B82:C7B8:3C00 (talk) 18:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'm going to have to dispute that source from The Baffler. Yes, it has the full alleged quote, as do many web pages online, but how do we know it's real? How do we know it has verified beyond Andrew Marzoni bringing it up? I remain skeptical, even if the long quote ends up staying on the article. GarfieldHelper0 (talk) 22:41, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

EDIT: Same goes for the article from The Daily Beast, which also merely brings up the quote under the assumption that it is confirmed. How can I trust either source to be correct? And a book without a preview to verify?

GarfieldHelper0, you might want to ping editors to get their attention. Most of the full quote, starting "vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch's our man", appears in the Barry Miles book currently used as ref 192 (here) – is this book you're saying has no preview? There's also a fair bit in the David Stubbs/Quietus piece used as ref 189. JG66 (talk) 23:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Pinging editors- okay, that's a new thing to me, at least here on Wikipedia. And yes, I was referring to the London Calling book. I do see that it's from 2010, though.

My main concern about everything you've recently cited- including that of Quietus- is that none of them appear to be, or have, primary sources (with the possible exception of London Calling, due to the aforementioned preview problem). How can I trust any of them to the accuracy of the alleged quote? Since they were all published in the 2010s, the authors of each (Miles, Stubbs, Sykes, Marzoni) could have just seen the quote somewhere online (like Wikipedia whenever it had it- yes, I've seen earlier episodes here) and assumed it was correct, regardless of primary sources.

This basically amounts to a rumor as to what Clapton said verbatim at the concert in question- doesn't sound BLP-friendly. GarfieldHelper0 (talk) 23:45, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

But you were okay with including a substantial portion – how do we know that content's not just rumour also? The credibility of writers like Barry Miles and David Stubbs is beyond reproach, I'd say. Miles, particularly, would have known Clapton socially in the '60s through their mutual Beatles connection, so it's difficult to imagine he'd resort to any sensationalism or would need to.

I'm not so wedded to the idea of including each and every morsel of Clapton's diatribe; as I said in a comment with one of my edits, if the long quote needs to be trimmed down in the interests of brevity, so be it. But at the same time, I'm confused why you appear to be so against adding more to the portion supported by the Guardian and Virgin Media sources unless you personally are satisfied that the reliable sources themselves show their sources. JG66 (talk) 00:03, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Ah, but I left that in because I didn't think I would be able to remove everything. If I did, someone could think "GH0's trying to hide something unsavory about Clapton" (as I recall others being accused of doing in earlier episodes here). I was playing it safe.

"The credibility of writers like Barry Miles and David Stubbs is beyond reproach, I'd say." In other words, an appeal to authority. No, that doesn't mean they're wrong, but it also doesn't mean they're right. Where did Stubbs find the alleged quote? I see no attribution or link to it in the article, nor a bibliography.

"Miles, particularly, would have known Clapton socially in the '60s through their mutual Beatles connection" Does that mean he was at the concert in question? Or heard an audio recording of it? If not, then it sounds like he just got it from someone/somewhere and assumed it was true (in a "well, if it's true, then so be it" way, not necessarily sensationalism). That's the sort of thing I'm concerned about all of the sources given for the particular rant.

"I'm confused why you appear to be so against adding more to the portion supported by the Guardian and Virgin Media sources unless you personally are satisfied that the reliable sources themselves show their sources." What I'd be satisfied with are primary sources that confirm Clapton said any of that verbatim. That's what I'd consider reliable. GarfieldHelper0 (talk) 00:56, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Hmm. Well, way more so than before, you're coming across as worryingly overzealous in pursuing this point, which does encourage suspicion. With your first edit, linked above, you commented "Reducing controversy quote to what is actually provided in the cited sources"; you were quite right to do that, no question. But I've provided three sources (two that currently follow the block quote, and the Miles book that includes most of the full text) and a fourth (the Stubbs article), and none of them are good enough for you. This Birmingham speech and the formation of Rock Against Racism is old, old news – has the subject of the article, Eric Clapton, ever objected to the words attributed to him in 1976? If so, that would be a very good reason to tread carefully and remove them. (That would be the only good reason to remove them, in fact.) But there's absolutely no reason to question, say, Barry Miles' book as a reliable source in this context. My concern, as I wrote with one of my first edits, is that the quote is excessively long; it becomes boring and repetitious. JG66 (talk) 01:20, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Again, I was being conservative. I didn't think I could just remove the whole thing without someone restoring it and suspecting me of being protective, especially since I haven't touched the subject on here before. But now that I'm talking to someone about it, I can be more open about my skepticism. Yes, you have provided additional sources, but you still have not shown how they prove that the alleged quote is what Clapton said. I am not questioning if Clapton said something racist then and there, especially when it's been covered in his Life in 12 Bars documentary film. I am questioning if he said what is being attributed to him in these sources.

"has the subject of the article, Eric Clapton, ever objected to the words attributed to him in 1976?" I don't even recall him addressing what has specifically been attributed to him, only the main details about it (immigration, racism, Powell). Furthermore, he may not even remember what exactly he said, so if someone did ask him "Is that what you said?", he may respond with "It's possible, I don't know." Not very convincing.

"But there's absolutely no reason to question, say, Barry Miles' book as a reliable source in this context." Not even for lack of primary sourcing? Did Mr. Miles provide any primary source(s) to the alleged quote? And, if so, what is it/are they?

"...the quote is excessively long; it becomes boring and repetitious." I would agree with that if I thought the quote was authentic. So far you have given me no reason to think it is, aside from appeals to authority. GarfieldHelper0 (talk) 02:04, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

We're getting nowhere, and I wish you'd stop your robotic repetition of my phrasing. But to paraphrase one of yours: so far you've given me no reason to think the sources cited are genuinely problematic. If this issue was contentious and Clapton denied having ever said any of these words, then of course we should remove them and/or give each source tremendous scrutiny. JG66 (talk) 02:13, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

I am simply addressing your points. I didn't know that bothered you.

As far as your paraphrase is concerned, why should it be my job to disprove the alleged quote? The claim is that Clapton said "xyz", now let's see evidence that he did. What I want is primary sources for that, i.e. a recording of the concert so that one can verify what Clapton did or didn't say. Or maybe even someone with a transcript of that. I see none of that in the articles from Quietus/Daily Beast/Baffler, just assertions of what exactly he said. They seem to be just as reliable as every other web page containing that quote.

I don't know about the London Calling book, but you have yet to tell me if Barry Miles used anything (primary source(s) or even otherwise) to verify the quote. All I got was that he was familiar with Clapton in the 1960s (over 5 years before the Birmingham concert). Can you go beyond that? GarfieldHelper0 (talk) 02:38, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

PS: The burden of evidence rests with the editor who adds or restores the material.

Yes, and the mentions of burden of evidence there link to Wikipedia:Verifiability#Responsibility for providing citations. New citations have been added, in response to your original objection. You just keep raising objections.

Two other areas on that page that strike me as particularly relevant are WP:BLPSOURCES and WP:GRAPEVINE. In each case, the message is to ensure sources are high-quality and reliable. There's no mention of questioning sources to the umpteenth degree and ensuring that they state their sources or that their sources have to be of a certain standard. It's just you being overzealous, as I've said. Start an RfC, I don't care. JG66 (talk) 03:52, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, and what have you done to address my objections? About primary sources? About whatever is in that book (you didn't even cite the pages the alleged quote appears in)? Is "you're overzealous" all you've got? How do you know these sources are high quality and reliable if they don't verify where this quote came from? How do we know whoever wrote that transcript originally got it right? Even Snopes, which figured Clapton had a racist speech back then, "can’t verify the verbatim accuracy of any given set of direct quotations." If we don't need to "ensure that they state their sources or that their sources have to be of a certain standard", then what do we need? Faith? GarfieldHelper0 (talk) 04:03, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm not going to – I don't need to – address objections that you think are valid when my addition of new reliable sources satisfies the requirements laid out in that policy documentation. If you want to take the scrutiny applied to sources to a new level and redefine "reliable", then your argument seems to be with the policy itself.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say I haven't cited the pages in that book. The Miles book? There's a link to the publisher's Google Books preview in the source; there's no pagination in that preview file – that happens, it doesn't make the source any less reliable. JG66 (talk) 04:13, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

So you're taking it on faith that these sources are correct in the quotes they give, just because the sites themselves are reliable? Is this an example of "sources > accuracy", then?

I was referring to the citation for the BM book in the article itself: no pages given for where the block quote occurs ("Miles, Barry (2010). London Calling: A Countercultural History of London since 1945. London: Atlantic Books. ISBN 978-1-848875548."). "it doesn't make the source any less reliable." Or more reliable. GarfieldHelper0 (talk) 04:21, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Is the following Audio/Video of Use? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wEwy6eI_Rg around 7:30 Clapton is confronted about this topic (but not the exact phrasing). He confirms racist statements.--Eisenkiste (talk) 17:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

References

Stratocaster became Claptons main guitar 1975

He did not start with Stratocaster in the end of 69. Thats wrong and innacurate. At that time he was playing a Gibson Les Paul. The first time he started playing the Stratocaster was in 1970. He toured with a Gibson Les Paul Junior and a Stratocaster in 1970. In 1973 after 3 years of absence, he came back for 2 shows. The first show was played with a Gibson Les Paul the second with a Stratocaster. Touring 1974 to 1975 the Gibson Explorer was his main guitar. Spmetime after that it became his main guitar ( the Stratocaster). He started out playing Fender Telecaster for 3 years exclusively. Then came back to the Telecaster with Blind Faith. Then always used The Fender Telecaster live for a few songs in the 70 s and the 80 ties. On almost every record with Eric Clapton he uses a Telecaster and a ES 335. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PaulM1234a (talk • contribs) 11:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

If you are able to provide WP:RS to this effect, then please add the material to the article citing those WP:RS. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 15:08, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Guitars wrong

The Fender Stratocaster became Eric Claptons main guitar 1975. He started using it in 1970. At the end of 1969 he was using Gibson Les paul. He trhen used a Gibson Les Paul Junior and a Stratocaster for a tour of 1970. after beeing away from the music Indutry 3 years He did 2 shows 1973. One with a Gibson Les Paul and one with a Stratocaster . In a tour from 1974 to 1975 a Gibson After that sometime 1975 the Stratocaster became his main guitar. Ge started out 3 years on the Fender Telecaster as his main guitar (Yardbirds and 6 months in John Mayal before switching to Les Paul), after that he used the Telecaster again with Blind Faith. And during his tours in the seventiees and eightiees he always played the Telecaster for a few songs.In the recording studio the Telecaster was used on almost all albums as well as a Gibson ES 335. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PaulM1234a (talk • contribs) 11:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

If you are able to cite WP:RS to this effect then please include the material in the article with the citation referenced. You also already kinda said this above... posting it twice doesn't help without citation. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 15:10, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Fender Telecaster

Why no mentioning of the Fender Telecaster that has been used during his whole career. He Started out 3 years on the Telecaster ( Yardbirds and 6 months with John Mayals) the came back to the Telecaster after some Gibson years with Blind Faith. He used it for a few songs every concert touring in the seventiees and eightiees. Almost every Eric Clapton Album has some songs played with a Telecaster. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PaulM1234a (talk • contribs) 12:05, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

There is probably no mentioning of this because there is no WP:RS which reflects this. If you are able to cite WP:RS to this effect, then please add the content to the article and cite the RS as reference. You have also posted this twice in the talk page already, which is redundant and unnecessary without providing a WP:RS. Please be concise in your discussion threads on the talk page. There is no need to start 3 threads simultaneously about the same topic. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 15:13, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2021

The Stratocaster became Eric Claptons maiin guitar 1975. This page is innacurrate regarding his guitars.

Article full of Errors. PaulM1234a (talk) 11:51, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Please provide corrected material for erroneous portions, citing WP:RS as references to replace the currently listed citations. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 15:17, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.   melecie   t 12:01, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2021

Add SpaceCamp (“Forever Man”) in the Media section after Back to the Future VagrantThorn (talk) 15:32, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: Please provide a suitable source. Itcouldbepossible (talk) 15:34, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceCamp_(soundtrack) VagrantThorn (talk) 22:51, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

WP cannot be it's own WP:RS. See MOS:SELFREF. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 03:43, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

As record producer

FMSky, Picard's Facepalm: Given the recent series of reverts, it might be an idea to discuss the inclusion of record producer in the infobox.

I've just searched the article text and there are very few mentions of Clapton being a producer; in most instances, the emphasis is on how the likes of Delaney Bramlett and Tom Dowd produced him.

Personally, I don't think it merits inclusion as one of the subject's occupations. He didn't produce other acts, and he never went to a record label, say, with the ambition to produce records – in fact, I think I'm right in saying he has very rarely been credited as the sole producer of his own work. So, I don't believe that after over 50 years as a recording artist his accumulation of many (co-)production credits means he should be recognised as a producer in the infobox. (He had a hand in designing the artwork for some of his albums too – doesn't mean he's a designer. His activities with the Crossroads Guitar Festival, ARMS Benefits and several other fundraising projects don't make him a philanthropist or activist, either, for the purposes of the infobox.) That's my take. JG66 (talk) 03:56, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

There are literally hundreds of nearly a hundred songs and albums he is listed as a/the producer of at AllMusic. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 04:54, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Hardly. In fact, that AllMusic list partly reflects what I'm saying, that his co-production credits in no way approach those as a musician and songwriter in terms of number.

Also, you're not engaging with my point about how this article's text fails to support record producer being listed as one of Clapton's key occupations. He doesn't produce sessions for other artists, he just co-produces his own music, leaving the main role to established producers like Tom Dowd, Glynn Johns, Phil Collins, Russ Titelman, Ted Templeman and Simon Climie. He didn't even have a co-production credit on any of his own albums until 1983's Money and Cigarettes, and then (following his album chronology) there's a long run from Journeyman in 1989 where he has no production credit at all (they're all Titelman alone). And Clapton's never been the sole producer of anyone's records – because he's not a record producer. JG66 (talk) 05:52, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm going to have to disagree. 86 album credits as a producer - be it co or otherwise. 16 of them for albums of other people, including; Buddy Guy, B.B. King, Stevie Wonder, The Osbournes, Sasha & John Digweed, Elton John's Two Rooms, 2 Atlantic Blues albums, Blues Summit and of course some of the Crossroads Guitar Festival. If that quantity and lineup - on top of his own and not to be discounted album productions - doesn't qualify someone as a producer - then there are a LOT of other folks who need to have their producer credits stripped from their WP articles, as well as from them in real life. But I will let you have that discussion with them and telling to them that they are not producers. Picard's Facepalm (talk) 15:13, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

You don't work on a lot of music articles here, do you? I do, and fortunately FMSky does too, from what I've seen. I'm sure there are a good few other articles where occupations and other details are incorrectly listed.

In the "occupation" parameter at Template:Infobox person (which this article carries), it reads: "Occupation(s) as given in the lead." The lead does not state that Eric Clapton is a record producer. That's probably because it's been written by people who work on music articles a fair bit and who know the article content (which, as you've yet to respond to, does not give the impression that the subject is a record producer, certainly not to the extent that it deserves to be included as a key role or activity). The lead is meant to summarise key points in the article (MOS:LEAD) and the infobox is meant to reflect what's given in the article, not act independently of it. JG66 (talk) 17:49, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm with JG66 here. The infobox is not meant to be comprehensive. That Clapton has produced some songs and records is not at debate, and is also not sufficient to bear mentioning in the infobox. Taken against the sum total of his work, it's a minor point. --Jayron32 18:39, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2021

Please add this new information about Eric Clapton (providing three sources) -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/12/17/eric-clapton-bootleg-cd-lawsuit-germany/ https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/dec/17/eric-clapton-wins-legal-case-against-woman-selling-bootleg-live-cd-for-845 https://www.guitarworld.com/news/eric-clapton-widow-bootleg-lawsuit

Thank you. Szk10 (talk) 06:21, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: I'm afraid that when you submit edit requests a requirement is that you state explicitly what content you want added or removed in the phrasing of change X to Y, though in this scenario it would be like please insert X between/above/below/in section YZ. Feel free to re-open this request with such statement(s).

Do note that your account will become autoconfirmed once you make 9 more edits, and that will allow you to edit this page freely. —Sirdog (talk) 08:09, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Clapton bootleg CD case in late‑2021

This bootleg CD episode probably deserves coverage (as noted in the previous section) but music history is too far outside my knowledge for me to usefully contribute. The woman involved could have, under German copyright law, faced a fine of up to £212,353 or six months in prison for simply relisted the offending CD on eBay again. Here are a couple of citations in wikipedia (WCF) format:

• Snapes and Oltermann (2021) on German copyright case
• Burke (2021) on Clapton bootleg CD case

By the way, I follow German copyright law and this case is quite informative because of the criminal sanctions that can apply — in contrast with US law, for instance, which is strictly civil. RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 09:02, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

References

Mass formation hypnosis

Eric Clapton believes 'mass formation hypnosis' made people get COVID vaccine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:3d09:1580:9600:9d9d:8e6a:3640:ee96 (talk) 16:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2022

request to edit, only the "conspiracy theorist" line. no value judgment Educs 123 (talk) 17:16, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

 Done Text was not supported by article body. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:25, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

His Strat is a hybrid between a les Paul and a Strat Since 1987

Erics Stratocaster is a Hybrid between a Les Paul and a Stratocaster Since 1987. That in order not to change guitars between songs. Its very far from a Normal Stratocaster. It has a humbucking system installed so he can change to Les Paul sound When he wants installed instead of a tone knob. So he only has one tone knob on the guitar the other one is a humbucking control 213.89.143.63 (talk) 11:43, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Fender Telecaster part 2

Hi Since I did not know How to respond or aff quotes here regarding his Telecaster use I had to create a New Talk page. Well everyone knows he started out on Telecaster in the Yard byrds and before getting his Les Paul he used another Telecaster 6 months inte John Mayal group. I have quotes and pictures of that. Also his base player commented a Fender Telecaster from 1952 Where he states ” this was used much during recording and touring from 1969 to 1980” a whole tour 1975 in Japan has Eric using a white Fender Telecaster as his Main guitar. I have quotes from Eric himself on that one. But I dont know How to uppload the quotes. There are also quotes from a tour 1987 Where he uses the Telecaster ( not as main guitar). And some quotes that almost every record has one or two songs recorded with the Telecaster. Since I dont know How to uppload the quotes and if you are interested you can write Me at : p_a33@hotmail.com and I send them. 213.89.143.63 (talk) 11:57, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Record sales

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists he has sold 100 million records not 280 millions. It also says that "The claimed figures are upgraded only when there is a significant progress in artists' certified units." And I don´t think there has been a significant progress there?2A00:801:236:68FB:C427:F902:3D1F:FC2B (talk) 22:02, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Why...

...is an article with blatant WP:VERIFY (and therefore plagiarism/WP:OR issues) protected, so that content cannot be challenged, flagged, or corrected? At very least, you — the admins and editors maintaining the editing restrictions — should place appropriate warning labels for our readers, before locking the article down for extended periods (wherein such periods, research makes clear that overall editorial engagement at an article, both good as well as bad, diminishes). And yes, by reader warnings, I mean high level tags, indicating the major issues as you see them.

If these are not obvious, one needn't begin a comprehensive cite-check. Just look to the "Derek and the Dominoes" subsection of the music career section, where this entire unsourced paragraph can be found (recalling, per our policies and guidelines, that wikilinks do not constitute compliant sourcing):

Clapton's close friendship with George Harrison brought him into contact with Harrison's wife, Pattie Boyd, with whom he became deeply infatuated. When she spurned his advances, Clapton's unrequited affections prompted most of the material for the Dominos' album Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs (1970). Heavily blues-influenced, the album features the twin lead guitars of Clapton and Duane Allman, with Allman's slide guitar as a key ingredient of the sound. Working at Criteria Studios in Miami with Atlantic Records producer Tom Dowd, who had worked with Clapton on Cream's Disraeli Gears, the band recorded a double album.

And I think further mild scrutiny will broaden this concern, and careful scrutiny will find many citations placed inaccurately (e.g., end of paragraph citations not covering entire paragraphs, end of sentence citations covering part but not all of content therein, etc.), as sources were added after the fact, and care was not taken to correct the appearing text to the newly placed citation.

With greater power comes greater responsibility. Skim the article. Place the tags. Protect your least discerning, most impressionable readers from possible disinformation. Pretending all is well when it is not, all is true when it is not (and in this case, all is WP:VERIFY compliant when it is not) — these are not hallmarks of an institution with which most of us care to associate. 2601:246:C700:14C:E189:FCDE:97E1:EBB2 (talk) 06:16, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

And...

...likewise, should its restrictions much continue, those sitting in oversight of this article should start working on the quartet of well sourced/argued edit requests of December 2021, and February and August 2022. (Feel free to address them in order of submission.) Bottom line, the change-from-to requirement is an easy out for we editors to become complacent, and worse, to safeguard an article around our own predilections. If someone were to show us a whole block of text was overtly plagiarised and in COPYVIO, would we shirk the responsibility and say [damn the readers' needs/expectations], "no change until request is properly formatted"? Then moving off from there, how egregious does a reasonable request have to become before we will act upon it, rather than return the responsibility to a concerned, often unregistered or non-logging passer-by (who, while having a valid observation or concern, may never return to this space)? Again with much power comes much responsibility. It's been more than a half year since the December requests. You have a choice. Be legalistic, or improve the article. [Or better, unlock it and leave the all improving to others (and maybe give some time to Habitat, and see some real societal impact from reasonable rule-following (in that case, local building codes and single family residential best build practices).]

Finally, note, the two issues described in the example are two overlapping but distinct issues; material outside of COPYVIO concern can still be plagiarised. Cheers. 2601:246:C700:14C:E189:FCDE:97E1:EBB2 (talk) 06:39, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

change the phrase " pop-orientated" to pop-oriented !

There is no such word as 'orientated'. Get rid of the phrase 'pop-orientated'. 74.137.16.4 (talk) 17:19, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

There is in British English]. WP:ENGVAR.--Nicknack009 (talk) 17:31, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

[removed anti vax covid conspiracies unrelated to Eric Clapton] 79.79.179.75 (talk) 20:33, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks 🙏 2600:387:F:4812:0:0:0:9 (talk) 13:59, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I've looked at that section, both the version you reacted to and the current version. The current version contains factual information about what Clapton said and did, without a judgement. He collaborated with Van Morrison, he released another song ("This Has Gotta Stop") in 2021, he contracted covid 19 in 2022, he cancelled a number of gigs. These things are true, regardless of what you think of covid 19. I don't see any need to "update" it. SQB (talk) 19:37, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Awards and honours

Is this section, are there a number of withs missing, eg Presented withthe Silver Clef Award from Princess Michael of Kent for outstanding contribution to British music. etc - or did he present the award to someone else (could they be listed, if so)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.9.119.230 (talk) 14:02, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Clapton started with the Fender Stratocaster in 1974 (error in article)

Eric Clapton did not start to use the Fender Stratocaster as his main guitar untill 1974. He used it a little late 1970 but the Gibson Les Paul was absolutely his main guitar then. The absolute major part of the songs of the albums released late 1970 were recorded with a Gibson Les Paul, a few with a Stratocaster and a few with a Telecaster. Since Clapton did Almost nothing between 1971 and 1973 the guitar ( except the Bangladesh concert where he used a semi Hollow Gibson guitar), the change occured in 1974, because at his Rainbow concert he still used a Gibson Les Paul. The Rainbow concert was a way to get Clapton back from heroin addiction. He did no recordings in 1973 so 1974 should be the real year Clapton Started using the Fender Stratocaster as his main guitar. It should be remembered that Clapton used a Fender Telecaster as his main guitar from 1963 to 1966. In late 1966 he switched to a Gibson Les Paul and in 1974 he switched to the Fender Stratocaster. In 1982 Clapton got tired of the Fender Stratocaster and wanted back to the Humbucker sound so he left Fender for a company called Strings and Things in Memphis. Strings and Things even gave out a Clapton signature guitar, before Fender offered a Huge amount of money to have Clapton back. Clapton had one condiction though, that Fender made him a guitar that could sound exactly like a Gibson Les Paul if he wanted. Fender succeded in building a guitar that could sound exactly like a Gibson Les Paul and Clapton came back. This hybrid guitar between a Gibson Les Paul and a Stratocaster, that looks like a Stratocaster is what Eric Clapton has used since 1986. It has actually a more powerfull humbucking system than a Gibson Les Paul as Clapton raised the DB boost been more. Unfortunately it never sounds like a Fender Stratocaster for real as the humbucking system is always on. This is the Fender Stratocaster Eric Clapton signature guitar. The guitar Eric Clapton played his first 3 professional years with: The Fender Telecaster has been on every Eric Clapton album from 1963 to 2021 to some extent. Beides having the Telecaster as his main gig guitar between 1963 to 1966, Clapton kept using the Fender Telecaster live after 1966. He used it live 1968 and 1969 then throughout the seventiees and eightiees it was used almost every concert for 3 to 4 songs throughout the seventiees and eightiees . Except for 2 tours in the seventiees were the Telecaster was his main guitar, US 1976 and a 2 month tour of Japan 1975. 95.193.174.246 (talk) 11:48, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

British Academy of Songwriters, Composers and Authors

It's now named The Ivors Academy. Could it be renamed? Xand16 (talk) 23:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2024

My suggested change is the following addition under Israel-Palestine conflict

In December 2023, Eric Clapton hosted in a fundraising concert to raise money for children in the Gaza Strip, performing with a guitar painted in the colors of the Palestinian flag . Peaceworld355612 (talk) 04:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done but slightly reworded.
— Urro^{[talk][edits]} ⋮ 12:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

References