Talk:Early Swallows

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

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• ... that the 2019 Ukrainian teen drama Early Swallows was the first Ukrainian TV show that portrayed teen LGBT identity?
  • ALT1:... that 2019 Ukrainian teen drama Early Swallows has been praised for making issues that are rarely dealt with in Ukraine in public debatable?
  • ALT2:... that 2019 Ukrainian teen drama Early Swallows was responsible for a 600% increase calls to a helpline?
  • ALT2a:... that 2019 Ukrainian teen drama Early Swallows was responsible for a 600% increase calls to a mental health helpline?

Source: Ukraine's teen bullying drama that shattered taboos and stirred a nation, BBC News (12 February 2020)

• Reviewed: Japan National Route 339

Created by Yulia Romero (talk). Self-nominated at 19:48, 12 February 2020 (UTC).

• ALT0 and ALT2 are really good hooks. However, right now the article is just over 1300 characters long, which is below the 1500 character requirement for DYK. The nomination cannot move forward until the article is expanded further. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:12, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

I just extended the article with (among others) a source found on Ukrainian Wikipedia. Hope it is long enough now, otherwise I am afraid it has to be extended with fluffy information.... Glad to hear that others find the TV show an interesting subject. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 01:34, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

I have expanded the article even more since 13 February 2020 — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:11, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Apologies for the late reply, but the article looks a lot better now. However, I'd still suggest that it be given a copyedit to make it read better. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 01:16, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks and apologies from me also..... for the late reply. As you may have noticed..... I have not got the time currently for Wikipedia related matters and editing (and I expect that my "real world" situation will keep it that way.....)..... So I am hoping that somebody else will be so kind to copyedit Early Swallows..... or that the article will have its DYK in its current form (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.).... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:00, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

• I have just requested a copyedit for the article from the Guild of Copy Editors. They've developed a bit of a backlog, so it may take a few weeks for them to get to it and complete it. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:02, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

BlueMoonset, Thank you. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

• Full review needed now that the copyedit by the GOCE has been completed. Thank you very much. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:09, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
• The article now reads better, but certain statements could still be rephrased. For example, there's a stray parenthesis in "title is a reference to the belief swallows are the first signs of spring.)"; in addition, that information could probably be moved to the "Production" section instead of being in the lede. The sentence that goes "It has been a local surprise hit" could probably be moved to the end of the lede or before the part about the ratings: usually in lede sections of television programs, broadcasting information and synopses go before reception.

As for DYK concerns, I was not able to find close paraphrasing, the article meets DYK requirements for newness and length, and a QPQ has been provided. As I mentioned in my preliminary review above, ALT0 and ALT2 are the best hooks. ALT2 is cited to a BBC source and I verified that the information is there (I'm not sure about this, but it might be a good idea to specify in the hook that it was a mental health helpline, though it's up to you). ALT0 is also mentioned by the BBC source, although as far as I can tell its hook fact is never explicitly mentioned in the article. Once the issues with ALT0, wording, and structure are addressed, the nomination will be good to go. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:44, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

• Narutolovehinata5, I have taken care of the stray ")". As Yulia Romero retired at the end of March, I don't think we can look to any edits from her. I have struck ALT0 because the BBC source says pretty much the first time that adolescent LGBT identity had been portrayed on Ukrainian TV, which is too vague to support that hook; I haven't bothered to add the specific information to the article. As for your other concerns, the moving and reordering of statements in the lede is not part of the DYK criteria. The prose is fine, and the current order makes sense; there is no requirement at DYK that we meet WikiProject norms for lede order. If you prefer a particular order, you are welcome to move things around; to my mind, the title's origin does not fit in the Production section as it is currently written, which is why I didn't move it in my edits. I have added ALT2a which includes "mental health" before "helpline". BlueMoonset (talk) 01:20, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Just for clarification: although the nominator placed a retirement message on her talk page at the end of March, she has edited as recently as April 8. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 04:31, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

It looks like Yulia Romero has been editing the article this morning, and addressed one of the issues along with making a number of other changes. I would appreciate it if you would complete your review at this time, keeping in mind the actual DYK criteria. Or, if you prefer, I can ask for a second opinion on whether the structural issues you raise should prevent a DYK from being approved. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:38, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I have not totally disappeared from Wikipedia these days.... , partly because of keeping an eye what happened to my nomination here (and some recent developments in my "area of editing interest"). Baffle gab1978, BlueMoonset & Narutolovehinata5, Thank you. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:50, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I also just changed the lead in line with recommendations by Narutolovehinata5 plus added a "Rating"-section. Apparently ratings were lower then expected judging by the BBC article about the show. Although a rating of about 7.5% does not look bad to me (since Ukrainian cable TV usually has about 50 channels to choice from....), nevertheless I tweaked the wording a bit to emphasise it was a "surprise local hit" according to the BBC because of its content. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:44, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I would prefer ALT1 to become the hook. It is supported by English language sources and a lot stronger then the other hooks proposed.... ALT1 does more to excite the Wikipedia main page visitor to read the article then the other proposed hooks in my humble opinion. And yes, ALT0 is a bit of a questable statement.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:51, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for the edits. As mentioned above, the reorganization and structural issues weren't really part of DYK criteria and were really just optional suggestions for improvement. What's important here is the sourcing and hook requirements, which are now met. Although ALT1 is the nominator's preference, it only appears to be indirectly stated in the BBC source, which does not exactly use the "debatable" wording (I can't access the KyivPost source as I keep getting a "you're using incognito mode" error despite trying to access it in non-incognito mode, so I am assuming good faith for that source). As such, I'm approving ALT2a in this case due to stronger sourcing. I can approve ALT1, but that depends on how the wording goes on the KyivPost source. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

• I agree with Narutolovehinata5 about ALT2a being the punchier hook. Specifics grab more interest than vague, leading statements. Yoninah (talk) 19:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)