Talk:Duke of Leeds

courtesy Viscount Latimer

The article presently says that "heir apparent to the Duke of Leeds was styled Marquess of Carmarthen, Lord Carmarthen's heir apparent was styled Earl of Danby, and Lord Danby's heir apparent was styled Viscount Latimer". Did any Duke of Leeds ever have a great-grandson in his lifetime? Opera hat (talk) 20:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

No, I don't think so. As far as I can work out, the heirs apparent were:

• Edward Osborne, Viscount Latimer (died in the lifetime of his father, the 1st Duke, whilst he was still 1st Earl of Danby)
• Peregrine Osborne, 2nd Viscount Osborne, later Earl of Danby, later Marquess of Carmarthen, later 2nd Duke of Leeds
• William Henry Osborne, Viscount Latimer, later Earl of Danby (died in the lifetime of his grandfather, the 1st Duke)
• Peregrine Hyde Osborne, Earl of Danby, later Marquess of Carmarthen, later 3rd Duke of Leeds
• Thomas Osborne, Earl of Danby, later Marquess of Carmarthen, later 4th Duke of Leeds
• Francis Godolphin Osborne, Marquess of Carmarthen, later 5th Duke of Leeds
• George William Frederick Osborne, Earl of Danby, later Marquess of Carmarthen, later 6th Duke of Leeds
• Francis George Godolphin D'Arcy Osborne, Earl of Danby, later Marquess of Carmarthen, later 7th Duke of Leeds
• George Godolphin Osborne, Marquess of Carmarthen, later 9th Duke of Leeds
• George Frederick Osborne, Earl of Danby (died in the lifetime of his grandfather, the 8th Duke)
• George Godolphin Osborne, Earl of Danby, later Marquess of Carmarthen, later 10th Duke of Leeds
• John Francis Godolphin Osborne, Marquess of Carmarthen, later 11th Duke of Leeds

So the Viscountcy of Latimer was used as a courtesy title, but not by the great-grandson of a Duke (on one occasion by the son of the Earl of Danby, and on the second by the grandson of the Marquess of Carmarthen). Nine people were styled Marquess of Carmarthen (all of whom succeeded as Duke), and eight people were styled Earl of Danby (of whom two never progressed beyond that title). The last use of any courtesy peerage was in 1927, when the Marquess of Carmarthen became 11th Duke. Proteus (Talk) 09:03, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression only two courtesy titles could be used for a marquess' or duke's heirs and one for an earl's heir. This means the son of an earl can use one of his father's lesser titles as a courtesy title, but the grandson cannot. The grandson of a marquess or duke can use one of his grandfather's courtesy titles, but his son (the Duke's great-grandson) cannot. 121.73.7.84 (talk) 11:59, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

The son, grandson and great-grandson of a duke can all use courtesy titles, provided that the duke in question has enough subsidiary titles. The only current example I am aware of is the 8th Duke of Wellington (b. 1915), whose son (b. 1945) is styled Marquess of Douro, whose grandson (b. 1978) is styled Earl of Mornington and whose great-grandson (b. 2010) is styled Viscount Wellesley.

Unverified claim

The claim by "Lord Calam Smithson" to be Duke of Leeds since 2012 is without any kind of proof or source. "Lord Calam Smithson" is not included in the Roll of the Peerage.

80.212.69.234 (talk) 20:10, 8 July 2013 (UTC)