Talk:Dessie O'Hare

Improvements

Well I've managed to fix what was a WP:BLP disaster. Further improvements I suggest are:

• More about his activities pre-1987
• More about his fight for freedom, including the various temporary releases. I think there's more than enough to warrant a section just for that
• More about his reputation, including his admission of being involved in a large number of murders
• More about the December 2006 murders and events leading up to it, I've found some reliable source material
• More about his less controversial activities since his release - Brothers of Charity, working with the handicapped, trip to Lourdes etc
• Some sections will be useful, can't really do that until I've added his early activities though. I'm thinking something along the lines of Background, Paramilitary Activity, Kidnapping (definitely enough for its own section), Fight for Freedom, Release.

Any suggestions/help will be welcome naturally. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 06:10, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for referencing this. I started the article and can't believe I forgot to reference it. Must check the others I started. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 09:08, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Not sure about a heading of 'Fight for Freedom' what will it contain?Weggie 13:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually I wasn't happy with that heading at the time I typed it, Prison would probably be better. However the section would mostly deal with his fight for freedom - judicial review, "my war is over" statement, transfer to Castlerea, brief temporary releases etc etc. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added some more background to his activities pre 1986, as well as in the immediate run up to kidnapping. Sources for this are an article in todays Irish Independent, and Gene Kerrigans book Hard cases. I also hope to add further information on criticism of the Director of Public Prosectutions at the time for only charging O'Hare with a limited number of offences, this relates to the fact while many goverment, judicial and law enforcement officials are working against his release —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shrubage (talk • contribs) 15:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

My edits have been undone twice now first time for being a current news story the second for distorting my source material. While my presentation of the information might be flawed the content itself is based on reliable sources. While I use the Irish independents article as a reference Gene Kerrigans book as far as I remember doesn't differ in its account. The O'Hare case is unusual in Irish criminal cases there was a wealth of evidence against him at the time for various other murders yet the DPP chose to prosecute on only sample charges relating from the kidnapping, the well document evidence of other crimes is one of the publicly stated motivations for various organisations opposing his release Shrubage (talk) 15:27, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Please stop adding your own unsourced commentary to this article and distorting existing sources, and discuss your changes here first. O Fenian (talk) 15:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I've explained the above rather minor edits I made to the article, and supplied a reference for the facts I stated. I stated no opinion on O'Hare in the edit. The majority of contributors seem to have republican political leanings, I don't use the word as a perjorative. I simply mean that the view of Dessie O'Hare that comes across from reading this article is not one thats shared by the vast majority reputable knowledgable sources in Ireland. And by reputable sources I inlcude The DPP, An Garda Siochan, and the major media outlets. I'm relativly inexperienced with wikipedia but I carefully examined its policies before I made the edit which was prompted by the newspaper article providing an available online reference. Shrubage (talk) 15:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Would you like to explain why you changed McCaughey's attempt to kill O'Hare to "apprehend"? Did you even read when the article says? McCaughey and associates went into a pub, opened fire, then attempted to detonate a bomb? How is that attempting to "apprehend" anyone? They were not acting as RUC members, they were acting as loyalists. O Fenian (talk) 15:44, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Apologies I have read the article and you're quite right, While I am somewhat familiar with McCaughey and his activities I didn't realise that Dessie O'Hare had been a target. I was unhappy with the implication that It was the RUC as an organisation and not McCaughey as an individual that attempted to murder O'Hare. I had made a longer edit to that section, which tried to include the various attempts to apprehend O'Hare as well as his targetting by loyalist paramilitaries but lacking any proper online references I thought I had deleted my edit in that section. I can only plead my inexperience with the use of Wikipedia and again offer my apologies.

However I have to state again, that were someone with no knowledge of the subject to read this article they would gain an impression of the man that is not widely held in Ireland outside certain fringe groups. An article on a man that's confessed to 26 murders committed in living memory does I think need careful wording. Shrubage (talk) 16:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Apologies, I forget I had other points to address.

• This was a part of policy of targetting part time security force personal living in isolated locations

Who says this? This is unsourced commentary.

• After his parole from prison he would claim on a visit to Monaghan Garda station that he had become a pacifist after reading the works of Mohandas Gandhi in prison, although it is certain that at this time he was already drawing up plans for the future kidnapping operation.

Who says he was certain? I do not even see the value in this sentence, as it seems to be in the article to imply O'Hare was lying.

The 26+ murders seem to be covered in the article already in the "Beliefs" section, and also in the section above when the PSNI rule out his arrest on suspicion of involvement in up to 30 unsolved killings. I do not think another mention is really merited. O Fenian (talk) 11:38, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Joining INLA

Anyone have a source for roughly when (and why) he left the IRA and joined the INLA? Thanks. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 23:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. States he was expelled by the IRA in the late 1970s. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 23:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Revisions

I've added to lead section, which should be a precis of the main article. I've taken out most of the headings, which interrupt the flow of the text. Last paragraph - I think this can be improved with more info from his spokesperson about his activities, and also Ahern's comments. Also needs a proper ref. Congratulations on very impressive-looking referencing throughout. Tyrenius 00:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I was planning to sort out the lead once I'd finished everything else, and I'm still got more to add including the 2006 and Ahern comments. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Injuring

In my opinion the use of injuring in the lead doesn't go far enough, mutilating would be better in my opinion. It's a strong term but appropriate in my opinion, and it's also a sourced term. Any objections? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 02:40, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - did you find the article by a former colleague who described some of the murders? Some of the most extreme stuff I've read even by the standard of the troubles Weggie 09:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm happy enough with VK's addition of "severely", mutilating makes it sound a bit too much like a tabloid possibly. Don't think I've seen the article, got a link please? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I've just put in the lead about cutting off two fingers. I think anything abstract leaves too much to the imagination, and makes it sound even worse than it already is. Tyrenius 02:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Fine by me, I re-wrote it slightly though. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 02:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Refs

Please note the full citation details must appear first in the article, and then any other use with the short version must appear later. Short versions in the article before the full version will not work. I also suggest when naming refs to give a name that is easy to remember from the source referred to, e.g. the name for ref 1 could be "who". I'm actually not aware of any guidelines on naming, but if there are, please point me there. Tyrenius 02:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

They worked fine before, although I was planning to do that soon just not while parts were still being moved around and added. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 02:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Just FYI I was referring to this edit where the short form appeared before the full cite (I reversed them), but maybe you were aware of that. Tyrenius 03:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I know they worked fine for me, perhaps it's a browser thing? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 03:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

NPOV tag

I have removed this, as there is no explanation on this page as to why it's been added. It needs to be explained here so it can be discussed if necessary. Tyrenius 02:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible additions

I'm thinking about the Tony McKloskey story from this article, and possibly the SPG incident from 1978 from Bandit Country, for the benefit of Tyrenius who probably hasn't got a copy there's information about it here. Any opinions? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 06:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Assuming refs are sound, it seems an important part of someone's life to be nearly blown up (by the police). Tyrenius 03:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added that to the article, I'll have a stab at McKloskey later when I'm feeling more creative. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 04:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

i have corrected some of the incorrect details.

No, you haven't. You've changed sourced content to unsourced content, please do not do so again. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:18, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

i think sourcing information which is incorrect is poor research. On a quick scan of this article i see ~30% of the details are incorrect. Please research your sources as James O'Hare (desmond's grandfather) died in 1920. Its hard to be imprisoned for 6 months 20 years after your death. There are many more incorrect details. I will not attempt to correct these as you are the author for this wiki article. However it is a policy of wiki to remove articles which are incorrect. I will pursue the removal of this article if you continue to publish wrong information.

I am not the author of this article. If you attempt to replace sourced information with original research you will be reverted, and if you attempt to continue inserting original research you may be blocked. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:36, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

As i stated above, i will not make any changes to the article. I would encourage you to research the content you add. I wish you well on your future wiki contributions.

And I would encourage you to take a less condescending tone. Simply because you do not agree with what the source says does not make it incorrect. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 20:09, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I think i should know my own families history, which is documented within the family circle back to 1649.

Not relevant, unless the information has been published by a reliable source. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 20:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

i now understand the meaning of reliable source as determined by wiki. Good luck

Yup, I did fix the grandfather though, must have been tired when I added that. The article used to look like this though, so it's definitely improved. If you can get any further information on Dessie published (like say on the IRSM website) it can be used. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 20:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Billy McCaughey

Just a quick explanation about why I'm about to change "attempted to kill O'Hare" to "attempted to murder O'Hare". As the information before it states he's a member of the RUC, it's important to differentiate between what might have been an officer acting lawfully and what McCaughey did. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:03, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

military person box?

Please!

Does no one think this is a tad inappropriate?Jdorney (talk) 14:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Alleged links to crime:

In December 2006 drug-dealer Martin 'Marlo' Hyland was shot dead at his Dublin home, along with a plumber called Anthony Campbell who was working there. Irish Taoiseach Bertie Ahern stated in the Dáil Éireann that a "significant former paramilitary" had been in the company of Hyland during the summer, referring to O'Hare.[26] O'Hare's spokesman, Eddie McGarrigle of the Irish Republican Socialist Party, denied O'Hare had any involvement with the killings stating that he was working with handicapped people and a charity, and had also been an assistant to a group of pilgrims on a trip to Lourdes. McGarrigle's statement was supported by the Gardaí, who said there was no evidence to link O'Hare to the shootings.[2]

Just because bertie aherne said "a significant former paramilitary" had been invloved does not mean he was referring to o'hare. I think unless a link can be found to state he was talking about o'hare this should be removed. This alleged is as good as stating aherne meant o'hare which is not the case as there is no proof. Further by adding this to his page it is inferring the old "no smoke without fire" argument. People obviously thought he as speaking about o;hare and thats why McGarrigle denied it. But I think this inself does not warrant it being on his page. It is not significant enought.

Markievicz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.1.75 (talk) 17:47, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

The source says that O'Hare was the "significant former paramilitary" referred to. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 12:55, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

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