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WikiProject Northern Ireland (Rated Project-class)
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Discussion on The Troubles in ... articles and criteria for placing an entry in the listEdit

A discussion was opened over on WikiProject_Ireland talk, I wasn't aware of the Northern Ireland WikiProject and maybe this discussion was better opened here (apologies, new to editing).

However, the concern is that the inclusion of individual fatalities is being disputed which I believe threatens the integrity of the encyclopedia. Please take a look at: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland#'The_Troubles_in_...'_articles:_list_entry_criteria.

Thanks 74 observer (talk) 21:46, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[]


For the interest of anyone per the above - The Troubles in Rosslea has been updated to include all fatalities. Bona-fide review is most welcome. 74 observer (talk) 14:49, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[]

UPDATE: The following killings have been removed from the The Troubles in Rosslea article by User:FDW777. Can anyone give some feedback on what they see as the rationale for rigidly enforcing an arbitrary and ambigious list critera that excludes the below killings from the article, whilst the WP:CSC policy would readily include them - "Short, complete lists of every item that is verifiably a member of the group". Some feedback would be useful. Thanks 74 observer (talk) 20:27, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[]

  • 15 October 1979 - Herbert Kernaghan (36).[2] Member of the Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR). Killed by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) in front of several dozen school children whilst delivering vegetables to St Tierney's primary school Roslea. School staff were held at gun point while the IRA waited for Kernaghan to arrive.[3]
  • 8 July 1986 - John McVitty (46).[6] Member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). Killed by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) in front of his young son whilst cutting rushes on a neighbour's farm. Had stopped his tractor to talk to his 12 year old son when two IRA men emerged from a ditch and shot him in the back. The two men escaped across the Monaghan border approximately 400 yards away.[7]
  • 29 October 1988 - Mary Rooney (81).[8] Died from a heart attack soon after evacuation from her home due to a Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) mortar attack on Roslea's Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) base. Four mortars were fired from a stolen tractor on a Saturday evening. According to an RUC spokesperson, "responsibility for this death must lie with the IRA terrorists who fired the mortars".[9]
  • 17 July 1994 - Caroline Moreland (34).[10] A mother of three from west Belfast disappeared by the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) for 10 days and found shot in the head near Roslea. The IRA claimed she was an informer however the 10 days between disapperance and death led to questions about IRA torture to obtain admissions. For a number of years Caroline had been the vice-chairperson of the West Belfast Muscular Dystrophy Association.[11] Her killing was described by Cardinal Cathal Daly as "one particularly loathsome operation".[12] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74 observer (talkcontribs) 20:27, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[]
  1. ^ Sutton, Malcolm. "CAIN: Sutton index of deaths - 1977". CAIN Archive - Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland. Ulster University. Retrieved 2021-06-12. Deering, Douglas (53) Protestant. Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA). Justice of the Peace. Shot at his shop, Rosslea, County Fermanagh.
  2. ^ Sutton, Malcolm. "CAIN: Sutton index of deaths - 1979". CAIN Archive - Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland. Ulster University. Retrieved 2021-05-22. 15 October 1979. Kernaghan, Herbert (36) Protestant. Status: Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA). Off duty. Shot while making deliveries to school, Rosslea, County Fermanagh.
  3. ^ Niall, Kiely (1979-10-16). "UDR man shot dead at school". The Irish Times.
  4. ^ Sutton, Malcolm. "CAIN: Sutton index of deaths - 1980". CAIN Archive - Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland. Ulster University. Retrieved 2021-05-22. 23 September 1980. Johnston, Ernest (36) Protestant. Status: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA). Off duty reservist. Shot while driving into the laneway of his home, Lisrace, near Rosslea, County Fermanagh.
  5. ^ "IRA Border unit jailed". The Irish Times. 1982-05-15.
  6. ^ Sutton, Malcolm. "CAIN: Sutton index of deaths - 1986". CAIN Archive - Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland. Ulster University. Retrieved 2021-05-22. 08 July 1986. McVitty, John (46) Protestant. Status: Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA). Off duty. Shot at his farm, Drumady, near Rosslea, County Fermanagh.
  7. ^ Brennock, Mark (1986-07-10). "IRA admits killing RUC man on farm". The Irish Times.
  8. ^ Sutton, Malcolm. "CAIN: Sutton index of deaths - deaths from heart attacks". CAIN Archive - Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland. Ulster University. Retrieved 2021-05-22. 29 October 1988. Mary Rooney (81) Catholic. Status: Civilian (Civ). Shortly after evacuation of her home, during Irish Republican Army (IRA) mortar bomb attack on the nearby Rosslea Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) base, County Fermanagh.
  9. ^ Cowley, Martin (1988-11-01). "Elderly woman dies after mortar attack on station". The Irish Times.
  10. ^ Sutton, Malcolm. "CAIN: Sutton index of deaths - 1994". CAIN Archive - Conflict and Politics in Northern Ireland. Ulster University. Retrieved 2021-05-22. 17 July 1994. Moreland, Caroline (34) Catholic. Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: Irish Republican Army (IRA). Found shot, Clogh, near Rosslea, County Fermanagh. Alleged informer.
  11. ^ Breen, Suzanne (1994-07-21). "400 attend NI woman's funeral". The Irish Times.
  12. ^ Siggins, Lorna (1994-07-30). "Cardinal describes IRA's armed campaign as sinful". The Irish Times.
The current standard is the first point of WP:CSC. If you want to change the standard, gain consensus for it. FDW777 (talk) 20:29, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[]
There is no ordering or priority in those points: "Lists are commonly written to satisfy one of the following sets of criteria". Constructive input only please. 74 observer (talk) 20:57, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[]
Stop forking the discussion. FDW777 (talk) 07:49, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[]



So I see the solution to the 'problem' of relevant factual information appearing on a Troubles page was to get the page deleted. No need to call for Sherlock Holmes. 74 observer (talk) 14:51, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

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RFC invitationEdit

You're invited to an RFC at WP:YEARS. -- GoodDay (talk) 19:39, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[]

Requested move at Talk:Navan Fort#Requested move 18 July 2021Edit

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Navan Fort#Requested move 18 July 2021 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vpab15 (talk) 20:48, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[]

CCI updateEdit

  Hello! A case was recently closed at contributor copyright investigations which resulted in the content of multiple articles under this WikiProject being removed or modified. Most of the articles involved were related to Troubles, NI towns, monuments/natural history, and local history. Members of this project may want to assess how much was changed and if any articles were of high importance. Here are some additional notes about these changes:

  • This case hit a lot of articles, so it may be worth checking your watchlists for content. Some of the content may not be worth rewriting, but do not blankly restore the content. There is reasonable suspicion that almost all that was removed is either a copyright violation or that it is more likely to be one than not.

You can find more information on this CCI casepage. Thanks! Sennecaster (Chat) 12:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[]

Return to the project page "WikiProject Northern Ireland".